5199 traditional tango music
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:36:30 -0700
From: meaning of life <kushi_bushi@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] traditional tango music
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
hello all
after one more miserable practica, i am curious, am i the only person on earth who finds much of the traditional tango music, whiney and uninspiring. personally, i find my self spending most of my time looking for a beat and inspiration in what usually sounds to me like a "bag of cats being mistreated". given my choice, i love dancing to gotan project, and some of the other "nuevo" stuff, as well as some "non-traditional" music, more like west coast swing. am i alone in this and should just stay home?
there is a posibility that the local d.j.'s and other selectors of music just hate cats, or are tone deaf, or just play that crap just to get me to leave.
just curious
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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:10:13 -0400
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] traditional tango music
To: meaning of life <kushi_bushi@hotmail.com>, <tango-l@mit.edu>
Please don't go home mad. It's OK that you hate (traditional) tango music. Tango is not for everybody, I think that there is room in this world for practically every kind of predilection as long as it does not injure or damage others. Those of us who like tango (the music as well as the dance) have the good luck and persistence to have created our own favorite environment of tango. You could create your own environment where tango music would never be heard and you and others who share your bias and hatred of tango can be free of it.
Cheers,
Manuel
visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com
> From: kushi_bushi@hotmail.com
> To: tango-l@mit.edu
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:36:30 -0700
> Subject: [Tango-L] traditional tango music
>
>
> hello all
>
> after one more miserable practica, i am curious, am i the only person on earth who finds much of the traditional tango music, whiney and uninspiring. personally, i find my self spending most of my time looking for a beat and inspiration in what usually sounds to me like a "bag of cats being mistreated". given my choice, i love dancing to gotan project, and some of the other "nuevo" stuff, as well as some "non-traditional" music, more like west coast swing. am i alone in this and should just stay home?
>
> there is a posibility that the local d.j.'s and other selectors of music just hate cats, or are tone deaf, or just play that crap just to get me to leave.
>
> just curious
> Discover the new Windows Vista
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:11:37 -0700
From: meaning of life <kushi_bushi@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] traditional tango music
To: tango list <tango-l@mit.edu>
no intent to bait anyone at all (or even be disrespectful), just frustrated and curious.
really love the style and attitude of salon tango (open, or open vee holds). sooooooo frustrated, i built my own dance floor with a sound system that would make any touring rock band envious. we have a constant flood of dancers up here, all who love to dance to .......... almost anything goes. many of the local tangonistas come up and "play", but others we don't even mention the "secret midnight milongas too" :)
i have been dancing tango about 5 years, 3 or 4 times a week, my wife is a dance instructor (not tango), so she has been dancing "forever". so, still figuring it out, but beyond beginners.
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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:00:24 EDT
From: Crrtango@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] traditional tango music
Kushi_bushi wrote:
<after one more miserable practica, i am curious, am i the only person on
earth who finds much of the traditional tango music, whiney and uninspiring. >
Probably, but there might be a few others.
<personally, i find my self spending most of my time looking for a beat and
inspiration in what usually sounds to me like a "bag of cats being mistreated".
given my choice, i love dancing to gotan project, and some of the other
"nuevo" stuff, as well as some "non-traditional" music, more like west coast swing.
am i alone in this and should just stay home?>
You are not totally alone, but all of you should stay home.
<there is a possibility that the local d.j.'s and other selectors of music
just hate cats, or are tone deaf, or just play that crap just to get me to
leave.>
They are probably doing it to make you leave. I would. And I love cats.
It sounds like a conspiracy against you.
Are you sure it is tango you want to learn?
Cheers (and please don't move to New York),
Charles
See what's new at https://www.aol.com
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:05:27 -0400
From: Ira Goldstein <eyegee@twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] traditional tango music
To: tango-l@mit.edu
hello, understandably anonymous person--
Of course, tastes vary...
You say you have difficulty finding a beat in traditional tango music ??
--Ira
At 1:36 PM -0700 9/28/07, meaning of life wrote:
>hello all
>
>after one more miserable practica, i am curious, am i the only
>person on earth who finds much of the traditional tango music,
>whiney and uninspiring. personally, i find my self spending most of
>my time looking for a beat and inspiration in what usually sounds to
>me like a "bag of cats being mistreated". given my choice, i love
>dancing to gotan project, and some of the other "nuevo" stuff, as
>well as some "non-traditional" music, more like west coast swing. am
>i alone in this and should just stay home?
>
>there is a posibility that the local d.j.'s and other selectors of
>music just hate cats, or are tone deaf, or just play that crap just
>to get me to leave.
>
>just curious
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 22:50:12 +0000
From: Heather Whitehead <heatherwhite3@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] traditional tango music
To: meaning of life <kushi_bushi@hotmail.com>, <tango-l@mit.edu>
I'm confused. You stay home alone with a bag of mistreated cats in a really expensive studio you built for rock stars trying to understand the meaning of life by dancing to Gotan project in a V frame? And you've been doing this for five years?
No, I'm the curious one. Divorce your wife and run away with me immediately!
> From: kushi_bushi@hotmail.com
> To: tango-l@mit.edu
> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 13:36:30 -0700
> Subject: [Tango-L] traditional tango music
>
>
> hello all
>
> after one more miserable practica, i am curious, am i the only person on earth who finds much of the traditional tango music, whiney and uninspiring. personally, i find my self spending most of my time looking for a beat and inspiration in what usually sounds to me like a "bag of cats being mistreated". given my choice, i love dancing to gotan project, and some of the other "nuevo" stuff, as well as some "non-traditional" music, more like west coast swing. am i alone in this and should just stay home?
>
> there is a posibility that the local d.j.'s and other selectors of music just hate cats, or are tone deaf, or just play that crap just to get me to leave.
>
> just curious
> Discover the new Windows Vista
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Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:39:17 -0500
From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] traditional tango music
To: "meaning of life" <kushi_bushi@hotmail.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<cff24c340709281739t372cead5pd8c0968d63dd3ba9@mail.gmail.com>
On 9/28/07, meaning of life <kushi_bushi@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> hello all
>
> after one more miserable practica, i am curious, am i the only person on
> earth who finds much of the traditional tango music, whiney and uninspiring.
> personally, i find my self spending most of my time looking for a beat and
> inspiration in what usually sounds to me like a "bag of cats being
> mistreated". given my choice, i love dancing to gotan project, and some of
> the other "nuevo" stuff, as well as some "non-traditional" music, more like
> west coast swing. am i alone in this and should just stay home?
>
> there is a posibility that the local d.j.'s and other selectors of music
> just hate cats, or are tone deaf, or just play that crap just to get me to
> leave.
>
> just curious
Uh, this is a joke, right? You're writing to a tango list expecting people
to sympathize with your distaste for tango music?
And thank you, Manuel, for your pointed response. Well stated, indeed.
Assuming 'just curious' is serious, this attitude, which is not unique,
represents an incredible paradox in tango which I believe exists in no other
dance. Let's see, we hate the music on which the dance is based and we still
want to call it tango? Can you imagine someone dancing foxtrot to salsa,
salsa to country-and-western and Texas 2-step to tango? Other dancers in the
genre would think you are mighty odd indeed. However, dancing tango to
disco, house, trance, new age (elements present in neotango) or to rock and
boleros is not considered odd by some, even preferred. What is really odd is
that what makes tango so very very special is the music. A lot of other
dance music seems so emotionally shallow in comparison, yet tango is so rich
in entrapping you in the emotion of the vocalist, the bandoneon, the violin.
Ask porten~os who dance tango and they will tell you that tango is all about
music and emotion. The music they are talking about is the classic tango of
Di Sarli, Canaro, D'arienzo, Calo, etc., not the vapid meanderings of Gotan,
Libedisky, Wilensky and the like.
It would seem to me that people who do not appreciate tango music but want
to mimic tango steps to non tango music should call their dance by another
name, lest we walk into one of their pseudo-'milongas' and feel the ultimate
disconnect between the passion we feel from tango and the blasphemous music
stealing its name.
Ron
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 19:39:17 -0500
From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] traditional tango music
To: "meaning of life" <kushi_bushi@hotmail.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<cff24c340709281739t372cead5pd8c0968d63dd3ba9@mail.gmail.com>
On 9/28/07, meaning of life <kushi_bushi@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> hello all
>
> after one more miserable practica, i am curious, am i the only person on
> earth who finds much of the traditional tango music, whiney and uninspiring.
> personally, i find my self spending most of my time looking for a beat and
> inspiration in what usually sounds to me like a "bag of cats being
> mistreated". given my choice, i love dancing to gotan project, and some of
> the other "nuevo" stuff, as well as some "non-traditional" music, more like
> west coast swing. am i alone in this and should just stay home?
>
> there is a posibility that the local d.j.'s and other selectors of music
> just hate cats, or are tone deaf, or just play that crap just to get me to
> leave.
>
> just curious
Uh, this is a joke, right? You're writing to a tango list expecting people
to sympathize with your distaste for tango music?
And thank you, Manuel, for your pointed response. Well stated, indeed.
Assuming 'just curious' is serious, this attitude, which is not unique,
represents an incredible paradox in tango which I believe exists in no other
dance. Let's see, we hate the music on which the dance is based and we still
want to call it tango? Can you imagine someone dancing foxtrot to salsa,
salsa to country-and-western and Texas 2-step to tango? Other dancers in the
genre would think you are mighty odd indeed. However, dancing tango to
disco, house, trance, new age (elements present in neotango) or to rock and
boleros is not considered odd by some, even preferred. What is really odd is
that what makes tango so very very special is the music. A lot of other
dance music seems so emotionally shallow in comparison, yet tango is so rich
in entrapping you in the emotion of the vocalist, the bandoneon, the violin.
Ask porten~os who dance tango and they will tell you that tango is all about
music and emotion. The music they are talking about is the classic tango of
Di Sarli, Canaro, D'arienzo, Calo, etc., not the vapid meanderings of Gotan,
Libedisky, Wilensky and the like.
It would seem to me that people who do not appreciate tango music but want
to mimic tango steps to non tango music should call their dance by another
name, lest we walk into one of their pseudo-'milongas' and feel the ultimate
disconnect between the passion we feel from tango and the blasphemous music
stealing its name.
Ron
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 01:39:57 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] traditional tango music
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Well, it seems here we go again. To those of us who've been on the list for several years, this thread comes around about every 9 - 12 months. Lots of passionate, absolute positions are stated, but I doubt anyone's previous opinion is ever swayed.
Regardless, I'll weigh in with my 2 cents.
First, yes, a very good reply:> ... You're writing to a tango list, expecting people> to sympathize with your distaste for tango music?
But I want to take issue with the statement:
> What is really odd is> that what makes tango so very very special is the music.
Here's my take on it: Yes, the music is a PART of what makes tango special, but IMO it is not THE thing that makes it special, nor is it the most important thing.
Just for the record, I love traditional tango music. But I also enjoy dancing to alternative music that has the proper tempo and rhythm structure and a decent amount of emotional content. Please note carefully the qualifications: proper tempo, rhythm, and emotional content.
> ... A lot of other> dance music seems so emotionally shallow in comparison,...
No argument, but not ALL other dance music is emotionally shallow.
So if the music isn't the central thing, what is? For me, the most important thing, the thing that makes tango so special, that makes tango "Tango," is the connection between the partners. The connection is facilitated by the improvised choreography, which requires a moment-by-moment lead-follow communication, which leads to the deep connection that has been labeled as the Tango Moment or Tango Zen or similar things, but without that improvisation and the lead-follow connection, you've just got another ballroom-style dance, regardless of how passionate the music is. After all, there's lots of passion on Dancing with the Stars, but no one on this list will argue that it's anything close to "real" tango.
J
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Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 08:13:35 EDT
From: Crrtango@aol.com
Subject: [Tango-L] Traditional tango music
To kushi_bushi:
Before you get into a long explanation defending your comments or bemoaning
how we misunderstood you, think about what you wrote.
"after another miserable practica"..."am I the only person on earth"..."much
of the traditional tango music, whiney and uninspiring"..."spending most of my
time looking for a beat"..."sounds to me 'like a bag of cats being
mistreated' "..."am I alone in this and should stay home?"..."the local d.j.'s ...just
hate cats, or are tone deaf, or just play that crap to get me to leave."
Certainly musical tastes and styles vary and there is room on this list for
all opinions but don't expect intelligent, thoughtful responses to exaggerated,
puerile comments like those.
Many of us do in fact find the traditional tango music (and style of dancing)
VERY inspiring. We also love the non-traditional music as well but may not
enjoy dancing to it. In Buenos Aires you can listen all day to the popular tango
station on the radio and sometimes hear very little danceable music, then at
night go to milongas and never hear anything but the traditional songs.
Obviously the people love all kinds but they make a distinction between music for
social dancing and music for listening. Many people here in states could do
themselves a favor (and others on the dance floor) by learning to make that
distinction as well.
For that matter, my personal complaint is that most of the new tango
orchestras, all of whom I love to listen to, all tend to play mostly
Pugliese/Piazzola-style music at milongas and get a little boring for dancing after a while. If
you ever hear a large live orchestra (like the one from Montreal, name
escapes me) play traditional arrangements, it is incredible and very inspiring.
Cheers,
Charles
See what's new at
https://www.aol.com
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 11:10:34 -0700
From: "Brick Robbins" <brick@fastpack.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] traditional tango music
To: tango-l@mit.edu
<ca2c2380709291110p4e735f93qc76dc3e7b7bc6e53@mail.gmail.com>
----You are not totally alone, but all of you should stay home.
----They are probably doing it to make you leave. I would.
----Are you sure it is tango you want to learn?
----Cheers (and please don't move to New York),
====
"How to Grow the Tango Community" is a common theme I come across in
Tango communities.
This thread was started by a member expressing a preference for
alternative music like "west coast swing." His post saying he finds
"much of the traditional tango music, whiney and uninspiring" was
turned by another lister into a "bias and hatred of tango."
IMHO, Tango is not a good "entry level dance:" it is simply too
difficult (though not impossible) to learn as a first dance. So it
might be, that attracting dancers with prior experience from other
dances would be a good way to "grow the community."
However, I find that when people come from other dances and bring
their slightly different skill set and preferences for music, etc,
they are greeted by a small but very vocal group with the unfriendly
and unwelcoming statements seen above. No wonder most don't stick
around. The statements above even contain a version of my least
favorite and often heard phrase: "That is NOT Tango!"
While I find that most of the members of the Tango Communities I've
experienced are warm and welcoming people, there are enough vocally
passionate ones who project a less than friendly atmosphere to
newbies, who simply leave to find someplace where they are more
welcome.
All of this is IMHO, YMMV and all that.
Flames Cheerfully ignored.
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 15:49:04 -0700
From: Daniel Lakeland <dlakelan@street-artists.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] traditional tango music
To: tango-l@mit.edu
On Sat, Sep 29, 2007 at 01:39:57AM +0000, Jay Rabe wrote:
> But I want to take issue with the statement:
...
> > What is really odd is that what makes tango so very very special
> > is the music.
...
> Here's my take on it: Yes, the music is a PART of what makes tango
> special, but IMO it is not THE thing that makes it special, nor is
> it the most important thing.
...
> So if the music isn't the central thing, what is? For me, the most
> important thing, the thing that makes tango so special, that makes
> tango "Tango," is the connection between the partners.
These few lines completely capture my take on this subject as
well. The special thing about Tango is that it is a dance improvised
by a couple on the spot, with the emotion of the music translated into
movement through a nonverbal conversation.
I welcome those who wish to dance in a similar way to other styles of
music, or who want to dance to Piazzolla, or Gotan or whatever. There
are those who are interested in fighting over the "one true" meaning
of words like "Tango", but that doesn't interest me at all.
So to the original poster: keep on dancing to whatever you want. Good
luck finding a milonga where others will have similar interests.
--
Daniel Lakeland
dlakelan@street-artists.org
https://www.street-artists.org/~dlakelan
