5605 The Truth About Tango Nuevo
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 15:36:28 GMT
From: "larrynla@juno.com" <larrynla@juno.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] The Truth About Tango Nuevo
To: tango-L@mit.edu
Ron of Central Illinois writes --------> Nuevo, although having
historical roots in tango and often danced to tango music (often not)
is a different dance from tango. Typically the feet are not maintained
on the floor and some movements do not follow the line of dance and
many challenge the personal space of others on the dance floor.
Uh, no. Failing to follow the line of dance except in emergencies and
imposing on other peoples space isn't nuevo anything. It's being a
selfish, idiotic ass-hole.
As for nuevo tango being about not keeping your feet on the floor,
traditional tango has had elevados of many kinds since at least the
1920s when El Cachafaz according to some sources invented the boleo.
Toe taps (golpes and golpecitos) have also been around a long time.
Kicks of various kinds, such as amagues, also have a long history.
Caricias (usually the woman caressing the man's leg or foot) are at
least 25 years old. In show tango the caricia is very exaggerated, but
tiny ones are easily done in social dance.
Rod McRae writes --------> after the first couple danced a Tango in
Argentina, everyone who followed and added or changed the way a step
was done should technically be called "Nuevo"
Exactly right, but there's no technically about it. Nuevo simply means
new. As I said in an earlier post there's always some new "nuevo."
What some label "nuevo" arose from what Gustavo Naveira and Fabian
Salas called their Tango Study Group in the 1990s. They were concerned
that some of the techniques of milongueros was dying with them. So
they came up with a way of describing these peoples figures in the most
basic way possible, hoping to write the milonguero's techniques down
and so preserve them.
Here's a brief summary. Walking steps use only one foot at a time, and
there are limited ways to take a step. With your right foot you can
step forward or back, to the side, or to the side crossing the free
left foot either in front or back of your right foot. That's five
steps, plus five more for the opposite foot. This is true for someone
walking alone.
Salas and Naveira also describe relation between two people dancing
together. I've always thought the words they used for this were
unclear, and I'm not sure that the relations they focus on are
important. I won't even bother trying to describe them.
Salas and Naveira (who have never labeled their dancing as nuevo)
aren't the only tango dancers to try to break tango figures down into
the most basic parts. In fact, I'd bet that a lot of the people in
this forum have done so. I certainly have.
Once you analyze figures you begin to see that you can make new figures
out of the parts. One way is to vary old figures. Ochos, for
instance, are made of two steps which includes 180-degree pivots. Why
not try pivots of less than that? These are called under-turned ochos
or zig-zags. Or three-quarter-turn (270-degree) pivots or full-turn
(360-degree) pivots. These are sometimes called over-turned ochos.
And you can make new figures by combining parts from two different
figures. Such as half of a forward ocho with half of a backward ocho.
Tango seems always to have been more concerned with improvisation than
with robotic duplication of "frozen in stone" figures invented by
someone else long ago. Thus we will always have nuevo movements.
Unless, that is, we give in to the self-appointed tango police trying
to make the rest of us conform to THEIR idea of tango.
Larry de Los Angeles ( novelette "Lady Death" add to
https://ShapechangerTales.com )
Become a medical transcriptionist at home, at your own pace.
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 13:35:56 -0600
From: David Thorn <thorn-inside@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] The Truth About Tango Nuevo
To: tango-l <tango-l@mit.edu>
larrynla wrote:
A lot of stuff.
Bravo and thank you.
[rant] If we are not messing with other dancers or the line of dance, etc., what is wrong if we express our feelings as we wish through our dance? Is Tango an art form or is it merely a stilted, codified and over prescribed set of step patterns, as bad as the worst excesses that one might find in the ballroom world? Does it diminish you to let me dance tango as I wish? I think that it is the self appointed "purists" who fail to dance tango, and should rename their dance to "Codified Tango." Larry and Rod both made the point that the by the time the second tango dancer hit the floor, tango had become "Nuevo" and it has remained so ever since.
If you would like to copyright the term 'Tango', you are welcome to try. In the meantime, the word, and the dance, belongs to the world. [/rant]
David
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Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 12:51:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: NANCY <ningle_2000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Truth About Tango Nuevo
To: David Thorn <thorn-inside@hotmail.com>, tango-l <tango-l@mit.edu>
This rant is not new. This justification is not new.
Here is my question: Who decides if you are "messing
with the other dancers or the line of dance"? It isn't
just physical contact that is bothersome. The whole
rhythm of the pista can be thrown off by very slow
volcadas or high boleos. I can always tell when there
is a thoughtless dancer behind me because my partner's
musicality is thrown off trying to protect me from
abrupt stops or backsteps or leader boleos. And yet
TL is completely oblivious to what is going on behind
him.
--- David Thorn <thorn-inside@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> larrynla wrote:
>
> A lot of stuff.
>
> Bravo and thank you.
>
> [rant] If we are not messing with other dancers or
> the line of dance, etc., what is wrong if we express
> our feelings as we wish through our dance? Is Tango
> an art form or is it merely a stilted, codified and
> over prescribed set of step patterns, as bad as the
> worst excesses that one might find in the ballroom
> world? Does it diminish you to let me dance tango
> as I wish? I think that it is the self appointed
> "purists" who fail to dance tango, and should rename
> their dance to "Codified Tango." Larry and Rod both
> made the point that the by the time the second tango
> dancer hit the floor, tango had become "Nuevo" and
> it has remained so ever since.
>
> If you would like to copyright the term 'Tango', you
> are welcome to try. In the meantime, the word, and
> the dance, belongs to the world. [/rant]
>
> David
>
>
> Rediscover Hotmail?: Get e-mail storage that grows
> with you.
>
https://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Storage1_042009
>
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 14:31:19 -0600
From: David Thorn <thorn-inside@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Truth About Tango Nuevo
To: <ningle_2000@yahoo.com>, tango-l <tango-l@mit.edu>
NANCY wrote:
> Here is my question: Who decides if you are "messing
> with the other dancers or the line of dance"?
Indeed. That is THE question. If I am dancing simple close embrace but insist on "pushing" the couple ahead of me, I am messing with the line of dance. If I am dancing simple close embrace but am dawdling so as to create a large gap ahead of me and a pile up behind be, I am messing with the line of dance. If I am keeping my distance, neither pushing nor dawdling, and I am dancing entirely on my floor tile at any given instant, why should you care whether I am doing a series of rock steps waiting for traffic to clear, or a colgada waiting for traffic to clear? If traffic is moving at a good clip, why should you care whether I am walking in a conventional close embrace or, using Ron's example, Butt to Front?
In my opinion, rude behavior on the dance floor is rude behavior, and considerate behavior is considerate behavior.
I realize that this is not a new rant. The question is: Why the
prejudiced attitudes that continue to pop up and warrant the rant, or perhaps we just have have trolls continuing to plague the list?
In the world of skiing (my other passion), many snow boarders are obnoxious teenagers. They would be obnoxious on skis also. There are also many snow boarders who are considerate and are a pleasure to share the slopes with. In the past, a large number of ski areas took the path of prejudice and simply banned all snow boarders. Now, nearly all are more enlightened and ban bad behavior, whether on skis or snow boards, and permit safe and courteous users of the slopes, whether on skis or snow boards.
Can't the tango world be as enlightened and kind as the ski world?
David
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Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 09:16:02 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Rude floorcraft - was: The Truth About Tango Nuevo
To: "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu>
Every community has occasional rude behavior by some dancers some of the time. My question is, what do you do about it? I'm not particularly interested in speculation and brain-storming, I can do that fine myself. What I'd like to hear are actual experiences of communities or event hosts who have confronted or otherwise addressed the problem, and what kind or results you got.
J
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Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 03:25:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Truth About Tango Nuevo
To: tango-l <tango-l@mit.edu>
I don't actually agree with that. I think Argentine Tango belongs to the Argentines.
Anyone is free to dance it?but you should respect the fact that it's not yours.
What right do you have to change it and continue to call it Argentine Tango?
Jack
> From: David Thorn <thorn-inside@hotmail.com>
>
> If you would like to copyright the term 'Tango', you are welcome to try.? In the
> meantime, the word, and the dance, belongs to the world. [/rant]
>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 14:11:22 +1000
From: Noughts <damian.thompson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Truth About Tango Nuevo
To: NANCY <ningle_2000@yahoo.com>
Cc: David Thorn <thorn-inside@hotmail.com>, tango-l <tango-l@mit.edu>
Really? So a slow milonguero doesn't do this? Or a milonguero that
doesnt follow 'the rules'? Surely it comes back to the dancers
themselves!
Get off the 'nuevo dancers are crap' thought process and maybe as
David says, focus on 'crap dancers suck' rant... But who's to say who
is crap?
O dear, here come the 'tango nazi police' again cause I paused when I
felt pause, but you didn't... Sheesh, I must suck as a dancer then
hey....
Sent from my iPhone, from somewhere...
On 11/04/2009, at 5:51 AM, NANCY <ningle_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> This rant is not new. This justification is not new.
> Here is my question: Who decides if you are "messing
> with the other dancers or the line of dance"? It isn't
> just physical contact that is bothersome. The whole
> rhythm of the pista can be thrown off by very slow
> volcadas or high boleos. I can always tell when there
> is a thoughtless dancer behind me because my partner's
> musicality is thrown off trying to protect me from
> abrupt stops or backsteps or leader boleos. And yet
> TL is completely oblivious to what is going on behind
> him.
>
>
> --- David Thorn <thorn-inside@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> larrynla wrote:
>>
>> A lot of stuff.
>>
>> Bravo and thank you.
>>
>> [rant] If we are not messing with other dancers or
>> the line of dance, etc., what is wrong if we express
>> our feelings as we wish through our dance? Is Tango
>> an art form or is it merely a stilted, codified and
>> over prescribed set of step patterns, as bad as the
>> worst excesses that one might find in the ballroom
>> world? Does it diminish you to let me dance tango
>> as I wish? I think that it is the self appointed
>> "purists" who fail to dance tango, and should rename
>> their dance to "Codified Tango." Larry and Rod both
>> made the point that the by the time the second tango
>> dancer hit the floor, tango had become "Nuevo" and
>> it has remained so ever since.
>>
>> If you would like to copyright the term 'Tango', you
>> are welcome to try. In the meantime, the word, and
>> the dance, belongs to the world. [/rant]
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Get e-mail storage that grows
>> with you.
>>
> https://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Storage1_042009
>>
>
>
>
>
Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 06:16:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: NANCY <ningle_2000@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Truth About Tango Nuevo
To: Noughts <damian.thompson@gmail.com>
Cc: David Thorn <thorn-inside@hotmail.com>, tango-l <tango-l@mit.edu>
Oh, take a chill pill. I did not use the words nuevo,
milonguero or crap in my post. But your defensiveness
is telling. Maybe my question should have been, if a
dancer is 'messing with' the other dancers, then how
do we get him to stop? And by the way - a milonguero,
by definition, would not do those annoying things. A
dancer or a 'bailarin' as the Argentines say, might.
--- Noughts <damian.thompson@gmail.com> wrote:
> Really? So a slow milonguero doesn't do this? Or a
> milonguero that
> doesnt follow 'the rules'? Surely it comes back to
> the dancers
> themselves!
>
> Get off the 'nuevo dancers are crap' thought process
> and maybe as
> David says, focus on 'crap dancers suck' rant... But
> who's to say who
> is crap?
>
> O dear, here come the 'tango nazi police' again
> cause I paused when I
> felt pause, but you didn't... Sheesh, I must suck as
> a dancer then
> hey....
>
> Sent from my iPhone, from somewhere...
>
> On 11/04/2009, at 5:51 AM, NANCY
> <ningle_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > This rant is not new. This justification is not
> new.
> > Here is my question: Who decides if you are
> "messing
> > with the other dancers or the line of dance"? It
> isn't
> > just physical contact that is bothersome. The
> whole
> > rhythm of the pista can be thrown off by very slow
> > volcadas or high boleos. I can always tell when
> there
> > is a thoughtless dancer behind me because my
> partner's
> > musicality is thrown off trying to protect me from
> > abrupt stops or backsteps or leader boleos. And
> yet
> > TL is completely oblivious to what is going on
> behind
> > him.
> >
> >
> > --- David Thorn <thorn-inside@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> larrynla wrote:
> >>
> >> A lot of stuff.
> >>
> >> Bravo and thank you.
> >>
> >> [rant] If we are not messing with other dancers
> or
> >> the line of dance, etc., what is wrong if we
> express
> >> our feelings as we wish through our dance? Is
> Tango
> >> an art form or is it merely a stilted, codified
> and
> >> over prescribed set of step patterns, as bad as
> the
> >> worst excesses that one might find in the
> ballroom
> >> world? Does it diminish you to let me dance
> tango
> >> as I wish? I think that it is the self appointed
> >> "purists" who fail to dance tango, and should
> rename
> >> their dance to "Codified Tango." Larry and Rod
> both
> >> made the point that the by the time the second
> tango
> >> dancer hit the floor, tango had become "Nuevo"
> and
> >> it has remained so ever since.
> >>
> >> If you would like to copyright the term 'Tango',
> you
> >> are welcome to try. In the meantime, the word,
> and
> >> the dance, belongs to the world. [/rant]
> >>
> >> David
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> >> Rediscover Hotmail?: Get e-mail storage that
> grows
> >> with you.
> >>
> >
>
https://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Storage1_042009
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 08:52:58 +1000
From: Noughts <damian.thompson@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] The Truth About Tango Nuevo
To: NANCY <ningle_2000@yahoo.com>
Cc: David Thorn <thorn-inside@hotmail.com>, tango-l <tango-l@mit.edu>
actually, the undeertone of your post is enough and don't bullshit
yourself. I have seen milongueros do much worse. besides, if you are
dancing with your eyes closed - doubt you have seen half of what I
have...
Sent from my iPhone, from somewhere...
On 11/04/2009, at 11:16 PM, NANCY <ningle_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Oh, take a chill pill. I did not use the words nuevo,
> milonguero or crap in my post. But your defensiveness
> is telling. Maybe my question should have been, if a
> dancer is 'messing with' the other dancers, then how
> do we get him to stop? And by the way - a milonguero,
> by definition, would not do those annoying things. A
> dancer or a 'bailarin' as the Argentines say, might.
>
>
> --- Noughts <damian.thompson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Really? So a slow milonguero doesn't do this? Or a
>> milonguero that
>> doesnt follow 'the rules'? Surely it comes back to
>> the dancers
>> themselves!
>>
>> Get off the 'nuevo dancers are crap' thought process
>> and maybe as
>> David says, focus on 'crap dancers suck' rant... But
>> who's to say who
>> is crap?
>>
>> O dear, here come the 'tango nazi police' again
>> cause I paused when I
>> felt pause, but you didn't... Sheesh, I must suck as
>> a dancer then
>> hey....
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone, from somewhere...
>>
>> On 11/04/2009, at 5:51 AM, NANCY
>> <ningle_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> This rant is not new. This justification is not
>> new.
>>> Here is my question: Who decides if you are
>> "messing
>>> with the other dancers or the line of dance"? It
>> isn't
>>> just physical contact that is bothersome. The
>> whole
>>> rhythm of the pista can be thrown off by very slow
>>> volcadas or high boleos. I can always tell when
>> there
>>> is a thoughtless dancer behind me because my
>> partner's
>>> musicality is thrown off trying to protect me from
>>> abrupt stops or backsteps or leader boleos. And
>> yet
>>> TL is completely oblivious to what is going on
>> behind
>>> him.
>>>
>>>
>>> --- David Thorn <thorn-inside@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> larrynla wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A lot of stuff.
>>>>
>>>> Bravo and thank you.
>>>>
>>>> [rant] If we are not messing with other dancers
>> or
>>>> the line of dance, etc., what is wrong if we
>> express
>>>> our feelings as we wish through our dance? Is
>> Tango
>>>> an art form or is it merely a stilted, codified
>> and
>>>> over prescribed set of step patterns, as bad as
>> the
>>>> worst excesses that one might find in the
>> ballroom
>>>> world? Does it diminish you to let me dance
>> tango
>>>> as I wish? I think that it is the self appointed
>>>> "purists" who fail to dance tango, and should
>> rename
>>>> their dance to "Codified Tango." Larry and Rod
>> both
>>>> made the point that the by the time the second
>> tango
>>>> dancer hit the floor, tango had become "Nuevo"
>> and
>>>> it has remained so ever since.
>>>>
>>>> If you would like to copyright the term 'Tango',
>> you
>>>> are welcome to try. In the meantime, the word,
>> and
>>>> the dance, belongs to the world. [/rant]
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>>> Rediscover Hotmail?: Get e-mail storage that
>> grows
>>>> with you.
>>>>
>>>
>>
> https://windowslive.com/RediscoverHotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Rediscover_Storage1_042009
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
