4989 Videos of Dancing at Milongas
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:00:01 -0500
From: Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org
Subject: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
In the past few months, several people have posted videos on YouTube
and/or personal websites/blogs of others dancing at milongas at various
tango festivals.
A milonga is a private social event. It is not a performance. Nor is it
news in the sense that an individual's simple pariticipation creates an
implicit right of usage. I know that to some extent that private lives
have become more public in the United States, but this outing has been
voluntary by of those seeking personal publicity.
In seems to me that someone shooting a video of a milonga and posting it
to his website/blog or YouTube is making an unwarranted and uninvited
invasion of privacy.
Maybe I am wrong.
Maybe the people attending the milongas who were captured in the videos
signed releases allowing their dancing to be filmed and publically
distributed?
Maybe the organizers of the events included a notice that the events may
be video taped and publically distributed?
The organizers of tango festivals often ban video recording of the classes
and the instructors' performances. Maybe the organizers should also
explicity ban video cameras from the milongas.
With best regards,
Steve
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 16:39:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Keith Elshaw" <keith@totango.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I feel exactly as Stephen does.
It is a gross invasion of privacy by people who should know better.
SHOULD. Anyone doing this video shooting thing without asking permission
has their head up their ... where it shouldn't be.
Also, most people don't read Google's fine print about uploading to YouTube.
They own it forever and can do whatever they want with it.
These are the same people who know and keep every search request you have
ever made. And apparently that is because they intend to do something with
it all one day. Like sell it or trade for favors with people who control
governments by whatever means. Otherwise ... why keep all that info?
That's something else.
To you guys just shooting and putting it up: who gave you the right? Where
will you be dancing next? We'd like to shoot THAT and put it up. And
probably have a good laugh.
To paraphrase:
Those who can, do. Those who can't, shoot.
And Upload. And bring condemnation upon themselves.
Get a life.
And if you think you are "helping" by posting shots of a milonga or a
festival, I say you are being disingenuous.
Looking at this footage people have been posting lately makes one think,
oh well - I didn't miss anything.
This is not fair to the organizers.
You cannot take a snapshot of the Universe.
A video does not represent what people in the room feel.
The life you can have by leaving your camera at home will bring you
wonderful tango moments, I'm sure. Looking through a lense won't.
Tango is about dancing. Not looking at your picture of it. You
shooters/uploaders are REALLY annoying. To put it mildly.
You ask for vilification.
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 16:53:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Keith Elshaw" <keith@totango.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas PS
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I wrote: "This is not fair to the organizers."
Well, I wanted to say it is not fair to ANYBODY.
The dancers shot; the local community who will suffer if future numbers go
down; etc.
It is just bad, bad, bad.
I hope anyone seeing a person with a video camera (cell phone) in their
hands shooting in a milonga will confront them.
A legitimate reason can always be easily explained.
A sanctioned shoot will be done by a real pro camera and crew and will
have received everyone's permission - from organizer to patron.
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:34:56 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@tango.org>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
Perhaps it depends on the situation?
Here are two reasonably clear cases on either side of the divide:
(1a) Street photos (Google Street?) are public because people do not
have a specific expectation of privacy in public spaces.
(1b) A photo of you inside your house is an obvious invasion of privacy.
Here are two slightly narrower examples:
(2a) Photos taken at an outdoor milonga at a public park.
(2b) Photos taken at a private party milonga in somebody's house.
Three other examples in varying shades of grey:
(3a) Photos at a professional stage performance.
(3b) Photos at a professional or amateur performance (ballroom
showcase?)
(3c) Photos taken at a public milonga within a hotel or ballroom at
large public event (festival)
(3d) Photos taken at a milonga open to the public at a Restaurant,
Bar, rented studio, ballroom....
(3e) Photos taken at a class or workshop
On Jun 20, 2007, at 2:00 PM, Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org wrote:
> In the past few months, several people have posted videos on YouTube
> and/or personal websites/blogs of others dancing at milongas at
> various
> tango festivals.
>
> A milonga is a private social event. It is not a performance. Nor
> is it
> news in the sense that an individual's simple pariticipation
> creates an
> implicit right of usage. I know that to some extent that private
> lives
> have become more public in the United States, but this outing has been
> voluntary by of those seeking personal publicity.
>
> In seems to me that someone shooting a video of a milonga and
> posting it
> to his website/blog or YouTube is making an unwarranted and uninvited
> invasion of privacy.
>
> Maybe I am wrong.
> Maybe the people attending the milongas who were captured in the
> videos
> signed releases allowing their dancing to be filmed and publically
> distributed?
> Maybe the organizers of the events included a notice that the
> events may
> be video taped and publically distributed?
>
> The organizers of tango festivals often ban video recording of the
> classes
> and the instructors' performances. Maybe the organizers should also
> explicity ban video cameras from the milongas.
>
> With best regards,
> Steve
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 19:12:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: tango@bostonphotographs.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
As one of the people who posted video from milongas (well, the video was
of myself dancing, but one can see many other peoples in the video) here
is my take on it.
As with any other PUBLIC event, where anyone can come in, there is no
expectation of privacy at most milongas. If it was say a private function,
where admission is based on something more then just a cover charge, maybe
expectation of privacy could be argued.
I enjoy seeing video and pictures from events because they do help forming
an idea on how the atmosphere is. I don't want to go somewhere, and pay
the cover to discover how good or lame an event is.
The organizers can certainly ban whatever they see fit, but I would avoid
patronizing such events when there are alternatives, as I am a pretty big
fan of free exchange of information. I certainly don't mind being taped or
photographed in a public space.
cheers
Sorin
my photography site: https://www.bostonphotographs.com
my milonga review site: https://www.milongareview.com
blog: https://sorinsblog.blogspot.com
> In the past few months, several people have posted videos on YouTube
> and/or personal websites/blogs of others dancing at milongas at various
> tango festivals.
>
> A milonga is a private social event. It is not a performance. Nor is it
> news in the sense that an individual's simple pariticipation creates an
> implicit right of usage. I know that to some extent that private lives
> have become more public in the United States, but this outing has been
> voluntary by of those seeking personal publicity.
>
> In seems to me that someone shooting a video of a milonga and posting it
> to his website/blog or YouTube is making an unwarranted and uninvited
> invasion of privacy.
>
> Maybe I am wrong.
> Maybe the people attending the milongas who were captured in the videos
> signed releases allowing their dancing to be filmed and publically
> distributed?
> Maybe the organizers of the events included a notice that the events may
> be video taped and publically distributed?
>
> The organizers of tango festivals often ban video recording of the classes
> and the instructors' performances. Maybe the organizers should also
> explicity ban video cameras from the milongas.
>
> With best regards,
> Steve
>
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 18:20:17 -0500
From: Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
In response to my comments about the video taping of milongas for posting
on YouTube, websites or milongas, Tom Stermitz pointed out that the line
for a presumption of privacy is gray rather than black and white. I
agree, but I think that with the help of organizers such as Tom, we can
draw the lines more distinctly.
Tom said the following are clearly public:
Street photos (Google Street?) are public because people do not have a
specific expectation of privacy in public spaces.
Photos taken at an outdoor milonga at a public park
and the following are clearly private
A photo of you inside your house is an obvious invasion of privacy.
Photos taken at a private party milonga in somebody's house
Actually, the public use of images created in public places depends on the
legitimacy of the relationship of the image to the news and on the
standing of the news organization. For instance, a news organization
cannot claim that crimes are being committed in Cheesman Park, Denver and
illustrate it with photos or footage of dancers at a milonga in the park
because the dancers have no relationship to the news story. A private
individual also has somewhat less standing in the public use of images
than does a news organization.
Tom also pointed out some shades of gray:
Photos at a professional stage performance.
Photos at a professional or amateur performance (ballroom showcase?)
Photos taken at a public milonga within a hotel or ballroom at large
public event (festival)
Photos taken at a milonga open to the public at a Restaurant, Bar, rented
studio, ballroom....
Photos taken at a class or workshop
In all five of these cases, the organizer has the right to set the
conditions for admission including banning photos and videotaping. In the
first two cases, organizers frequently announce bans on using cameras or
video recorders. Try taking your video recorder into a see a Broadway
play.
Many instructors and organizers ban the use of video equipment to tape
instructors teaching in classes, workshops and festivals. Students are
allowed to video tape themselves.
To my knowledge, no organizer has yet banned the videotaping of their
milongas. Maybe it's time they did.
With best regards,
Steve
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:58:56 -0700 (PDT)
From: Frank Lupo <flupo@pasadenalaw.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
A little research into the right of publicity and the
rights of privacy will reveal that when you go out in
public your rights of privacy are "de minimis." The
standard set by the courts for what is a newsworthy
matter of public interest is very low. For example the
fact that it is a warm summer's day and crowds of
people are at the beach or park may be illustrated
with photos or videos of people at the beach or park,
it relates to the weather or just how people in the
community are spending their time.
With the example of the milonga in the park, there
need not have been a crime to justify documenting the
event, the simple fact that there are dancers at a
milonga in the park would certainly be determined to
be a matter of public interest. The same would be true
for a concert in the park or a street fair.
The designation of news organization is not of much
significance in this age of web sites and blogging.
Bloggers who post matters of public interest, a
loosely defined concept, would be entitled to the same
First Amendment rights as the New York Times. But
historically people today are using the web the way
that the pamphleteers of the American Revolutionary
War used their access to a printing press, e.g.,
Thomas Paine, which gave rise to the First Amendment.
If a Tango festival or milonga is advertised or
promoted in any way it would most certainly be
considered a public event. I do think that a promoter
could ban photography and filming at their events. I
have even seen a few restaurants and shops with signs
prohibiting the use of cell phones in their
establishments. I would be very surprised if the
promoters of festivals or milongas started to ban the
documentation of their events, because with palm sized
camcorders and cell phone with video capture it would
be a headache to police. It is also my impression
that many teachers/promoters are posting photos and/or
videos of their events on their own web sites or
community web sites and have been doing so for
sometime now to promote their events. My guess is that
videos and photos of people enjoying the music, the
dance and each other tends to attract more people to
attend festivals and milongas, rather than discourage
them from attending. Perhaps I am wrong, but I don't
think that most people who go out dancing are too
concerned about keeping their dancing private.
Frank
--- Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org wrote:
> Actually, the public use of images created in public
> places depends on the
> legitimacy of the relationship of the image to the
> news and on the
> standing of the news organization. For instance, a
> news organization
> cannot claim that crimes are being committed in
> Cheesman Park, Denver and
> illustrate it with photos or footage of dancers at a
> milonga in the park
> because the dancers have no relationship to the news
> story. A private
> individual also has somewhat less standing in the
> public use of images
> than does a news organization.
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:03:25 +1000
From: Gary Barnes <garybarn@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
I don't like people posting milonga footage, in general - largely
>from the privacy point of view. I would prefer not to have random
people, who weren't there, watching and judging our dancing. A
milonga is not a performance. The shared experience of a milonga is
not a public performance for others who weren't there to pick apart -
notwithstanding that anyone can come into the milonga by paying the
door price.
But in this case, any argument about legalities is a red herring. It
is a moral question. Referring to laws in various countries is not
going to help much -- even if laws somewhere proscribe it, they are
clearly unenforceable, and will be local anyway.
Gen Y tend to think so differently about privacy that its almost a
generational issue -- if you're happy to post pictures of yourself
passed out at a party, milonga footage is unlikely to worry you!
So on this, I just regard myself as a grumpy old man and try to
dissuade people from unnecessarily posting stuff that shows an ersatz
representation of something that should be carried in the hearts and
bodies of those who were there -- even if that does make it perhaps
harder to judge which milongas to go to.
I still think its worth thinking through, and taking a stand where
necessary. I imagine I'll be about as successful as the slow food
movement -- maybe 1 in 10000, but worthwhile nonetheless.
OTOH if you enter a competition, and the form says they can use the
footage for anything they like, well it's you signing the form, and
you make your choice.
my 2.2 c
Gary
grumble grumble grumble
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:34:06 -0400
From: m i l e s <miles@tangobliss.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
To: tango-l@mit.edu
All,
First and foremost let me notate clearly that I hear the concerns of
the posters in question.
Secondly, I am sensitive to these concerns, and I have abided rules
when they are clearly posted or stated to me directly. Like for
example, when at the Boston Festival this past week when the
organizers stated AFTER THE FACT that videoing the PERFORMANCES was
forbidden, after I had already shot 2 of them, I dumped the video
immediately. I could have quite easily posted it on YouTube...but
that wouldn't have been in the spirit of things. Event though the
request came AFTER the video had already been shot. And I thought
the event was less than desirable, I still thought that people needed
to see the performances.
Thirdly, I've posted on my own blog what I thought people would want
to see of events. Most people visit my site because they know that I
blog about these events. Those that are far away and can't get to
the festivals or events live vicariously through the video experience
for 4 minutes. Take for example this past weekend at the Boston
Festival - while the event was a bust, about 4500 ppl visited my site
in the last 4 days. Or Denver, about 6700 in 5 days. And just so
you're clear those are *UNIQUE* hits, not page loads, and not repeat
visits, all unique visits in a 7 day period.
Having said that...let me respond fully to the posters in question
since I am one of those 'offenders', I'm going to chime in here.
I fall into the camp (considering I'm one the doers) of providing a
rather necessary service to SEE and HEAR what an event is like. Its
a public place and you can do what you want, and unless otherwise
indicated I shoot a video for an event that I haven't been to before,
so that anyone else who wants can take a gander of the room and
quality of the dancing. I personally don't mind being video'd. I
would tend to think that anyone running a milonga would WANT
publicity and having a review of the event is one thing, but having a
video of the event is another! It shows the room, the atmosphere,
the style of the dance that's in the room, the quality of dance
that's in the room on that night...etc. A picture is worth a
thousand words. A video is worth a small essay on the event.
Those are all good things as far as I'm concerned....
If someone doesn't want to be video'd, there's a simple way to not be
video'd, don't be in the shot! Another is to approach said
videographer *ahead of time* and ask not to be included. Simple.
Because these are public places, the legalities of the public spaces
comes into play. Its just like a news team taking footage of a
public event and the laws around that experience are rather clear,
its public domain.
I hate to disagree with my esteemed posters, hoping to bait me into
an argument here, but the simple fact is that public domain law is on
the videographers side here. And these events because they are
publicly noted, they now become open to the public, and are therefore
NOT private events. We can debate this singular issue till we're
blue in the face here...and I strongly suspect given this group that
you folks will. For my part in it I'm taking myself out of the
discussion....I've said what I needed to say here.
On a personal note, I've had many organizers come up to me after I've
posted about their event and THANK ME for the free publicity! At the
same time, I've got hundreds of emails in the last 7 months that I've
been blogging about my experience as a dancer, that have thanked me
for the 'service' I provide.
M i l e s
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 14:45:06 +0800
From: Kace <kace@pacific.net.sg>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
Gary Barnes wrote:
> Gen Y tend to think so differently about privacy that its almost a
> generational issue -- if you're happy to post pictures of yourself
> passed out at a party, milonga footage is unlikely to worry you
>
>
I was born in the gap between the Boomers and the start of the Alphabet
generation,
which puts me in the age group responsible for being the initial
adopters and/or
developers of most of the technological sea-changes in our world -- home
PCs,
Internet, Tivo, camera phones, ipods etc.
So suffice to say I am a big supporter of embracing technology to
digitize everything
interesting around us for the benefits of future generations. Like it
or hate it, this is how
culture is transmitted and disseminated today.
I agree any event organiser has a right to forbid filming, but in
today's world this is
becoming increasingly bypassed. Event organisers seldom benefit by
stopping tourists
filming, in fact such recording are usually good publicity for them, and
help to bring in
more visitors in future.
So dancers who enter a milonga populated by another 100 strangers cannot
expect
it to be a "private" affair. If you can expect to be filmed when you
board a bus,
sit in a cinema hall, or watch a baseball game, you can expect the same
at a milonga.
Instead of getting upset, why not take control of the situation? People
can choose
where they go to dance, and they can post their own approved videos.
People who
crave privacy should not dance on the street or in big milongas open to
tourists,
instead they can opt for privately organised events or house parties.
Like the old saying goes, you can't change other people, but you can
change yourself.
Kace
tangosingapore.com
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 10:55:49 +0100
From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
Sorin wrote:
> I enjoy seeing video and pictures from events because they do help
> forming an idea on how the atmosphere is.
I do too. Only after seeing Miles' recent videos from Denver and Boston was I able to appreciate how different are US festivals (these two, at least) v. European, and to make sense of much of the list comment about the dancing there.
For the interest of US readers, here's a video of a festival milonga in Amsterdam:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=raHTZ2jcUKY
However I don't enjoy the professional filming we sometimes get in milongas... mainly due to the arc lamps, electrical cables snaking across the floor, and camera-bearers obstructing the ronda. Such as seen at the last Paris festival, sadly, where a wandering news crew was conducting impromtu interviews with couples... on the dance floor!
Since milongas are going to be filmed regardless, I'd say it is best that this be done by dancers such as Miles, rather than by insensitive outsiders.
Chris
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:32:44 +0100
From: "'Mash" <mashdot@toshine.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
Can I ask honestly why it offends people to be filmed?
I am not quite understanding this invasion of privacy issue. What is it about being filmed dancing that is offensive. You are surrounded by people who are all dancing or sitting and watching you. Why is it different if the person didn't come to the actual event but sits and watches you anyway? I can understand that being put on Youtube you subject yourself to a barrage of comment flogging but to be honest is it not our problem if we feel insulted by the comments of someone we don't even know. I agree that if the video is a poor representation of an event, it is unwise to post it as it reflects negatively on the event organizer. But general videos of people dancing, of the unnamed sort can't hurt anyone can they?
Maybe I am being naive and also have a skew understanding of privacy. (I live in London so am constantly on CCTV)
I just don't see why it is such a big issue, if anything I would appreciate being filmed once in a while, I could use as a learning tool.
'Mash
London, UK
On Wed, Jun 20, 2007 at 04:53:55PM -0400, Keith Elshaw wrote:
> I wrote: "This is not fair to the organizers."
>
>
> Well, I wanted to say it is not fair to ANYBODY.
>
> The dancers shot; the local community who will suffer if future numbers go
> down; etc.
>
> It is just bad, bad, bad.
>
> I hope anyone seeing a person with a video camera (cell phone) in their
> hands shooting in a milonga will confront them.
>
> A legitimate reason can always be easily explained.
>
> A sanctioned shoot will be done by a real pro camera and crew and will
> have received everyone's permission - from organizer to patron.
>
>
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:29:20 -0500
From: Stephen.P.Brown@dal.frb.org
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
Instead of staying home to read late night contributions to Tango-L, I
went to a milonga last night. I discovered the organizer was an avid
reader of Tango-L. A small sign appeared at the entrance. Imagine my
surprise at reading what follows.
MILONGA ATTENDEES PLEASE NOTE:
Anyone attending this milonga explicitly grants the organizer and anyone
who has paid admission a license to photograph or video tape any and all
activities occurring at the milonga. Moreover, I or we (as the case may
be) have the absolute right to use such images as I or we deem suitable,
including (but not limited to) using said images on YouTube, webpages,
blogs or in print media to promote the milonga, to deconstruct individual
dance styles for instructional videos, or to hold your so-called "dancing"
up to public ridicule. ;-) ;-)
With best regards,
Steve
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:01:22 +0100 (GMT+01:00)
From: "johnofbristol@tiscali.co.uk" <johnofbristol@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
I don't know this is relevant, but I once knew a chap who made training
films for HM Customs and Excise. For one film he wanted people getting
off a small plane from Amsterdam. He had to use actors, as the real
passengers refused to be filmed. Every last one of the male first-class
passengers was with someone other than his wife.
John Ward
Bristol, UK
Tiscali Broadband only ?9.99 a month for your first 3 months! https://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:22:26 -0400
From: "Caroline Polack" <runcarolinerun@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
To: tango-l@mit.edu
This is such a grey area.
There wouldn't be National Geographic magazines educating us about cultures
around the world if no one permitted their pictures to be taken.
Imagine if I were researching tango on the internet and all I saw were
blurred and blanked out photos and videos, with the exception of licensed
ones. I would have gotten the impression that tango is rather impersonal.
It's the expression on people's faces that draw me in. In fact, it's Law 101
in graphic design, that a person's face is the most eye-catching element of
design in existence. When models are photographed - the photos that get
selected the most are the ones in which models are looking directly into the
camera. Why? because they are more forgettable if they don't. Most people
being filmed at milongas are not looking directly into the lens, hence they
tend to fade into the crowd making themselves rather unnoticeable.
Privacy has now reached such a point that when you turn on the TV -
everything's blurred out - faces, names, logos, numbers. Which I find highly
distracting and somewhat disturbing. Yet on the other hand, we've never had
such universal access to the media as we do now in this day of internet
technology. Perhaps there needs to be some form of control so as to protect
our ever dwindling privacy. When you're in a store, you're being watched.
When you are in public buildings such as airports or government services
offices, you're being watched. They are now even erecting security cameras
out on the street to monitor pedestrians. Privacy is fast becoming a
precious commodity.Perhaps because of this, we are now becoming rather
sensitive to being filmed without our knowledge or permission. It's one
thing to know that only several people would see the video but quite another
to know that the entire world can see it on Youtube.
What I find very interesting though is that those who complain about
publication of videos that were made without the permission - they are
evidently watching those videos too.
As for myself - when I watch videos, it's not with the intent to memorize
every face so I could stalk them later. Nor is it because I want to write
scathing critiques ridiculing every person shown on the camera. And I'm
intelligent enough to know that a 3 minute video is not even close enough to
encompassing the vibe of the milonga on any given night.
To be honest, i can't even remember any faces from any videos of milongas
that I'd seen nor do I really care.
Yet, to continue in the vein of honesty - I was imagining how would I have
felt if I looked up a video on Youtube and found myself in one of the
videos. I think I would have been rather embarrassed if I looked less than
stellar. But then, I would have been the only one embarrassed since I would
be the only one who cared if I was in the video or not. Nobody else would
have given a fig. My face would be immediately forgotten once they've
finished watching the video. When one has watched literally dozens and
dozens, if not hundreds of video, it's impossible to remember all the faces
which might actually be an advantage to whomever was filmed in milonga
videos.
In fact, watch 10 videos of milongas on youtube then see if you can remember
the people the next day without watching the videos again. See if you can
remember their faces, their clothes, the way they danced. I'm willing to bet
that you'd won't be able to.
So, there's the issue of exerting privacy by control versus the reality of
the matter which is that one's privacy is already safe by the mere fact that
they are not THAT memorable anyways due to the constant deluge of images we
are dealing with every minute of every day.
Stradddling the fence here. Sorry to be so Swiss.
Like puzzles? Play free games & earn great prizes. Play Clink now.
https://club.live.com/clink.aspx?icid=clink_hotmailtextlink2
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
Good point John, but more relevant to the milongas of BA
than the USA. I don't know about the EU.
But I'm not sure why you singled out the "male first-class
passengers". Clearly, for that to be true, then it must be
equally true that every last one of the female first-class
passengers was with someone other than her husband.
Sean
--- "johnofbristol@tiscali.co.uk"
<johnofbristol@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
I don't know this is relevant, but I once knew a chap who
made training films for HM Customs and Excise. For one film
he wanted people getting off a small plane from Amsterdam.
He had to use actors, as the real passengers refused to be
filmed. Every last one of the male first-class passengers
was with someone other than his wife.
John Ward
Bristol, UK
Luggage? GPS? Comic books?
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Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 20:46:41 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Chris,
I'm interested in hearing what you see in the milonga videos that is so different between USA and EU. Just curious, but I didn't see anything in the Amsterdam clip that was so different than my experience of milongas in the US, other than maybe the beautiful and spectacular high ceilings and arches in the building.
J
TangoMoments.com
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Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 17:06:01 -0400
From: "WHITE 95 R" <white95r@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
To: jayrabe@hotmail.com, tango-l@mit.edu
Hi Jay,
That particular milonga is the biggest one for the Tangomagia festival in
Amsterdam. That place is huge and one of the times when we were there, there
were almost 1000 people dancing tango! The DJ was El Pajaro and the live
music was by Color Tango.... Nice, very nice. The level of dancing varied
quite a bit with enough NYC type dancers to keep you on your toes (pardon
the pun). Of course, there were hundreds of excellent dancers too. I enjoyed
myself immensely. Very nice and special occasion.
Personally, I think that many milongas in the US are quite as enjoyable as
that huge milonga as far as the general level of dancing. The biggest
difference is one of scale and of course the fabulous venue. Also, the
Europeans are culturally different from the Americans and that gives those
events a different flavor. Also, the huge variety of people is very
interesting. Holland appears to be some kind of tango magnet during these
events in Amsterdam and El Corte in Nijmegen is also very popular and very
well attended. They have events practically every week ;-)
Manuel
visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com
>From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
>To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas
>Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 20:46:41 +0000
>
>Chris,
>
> I'm interested in hearing what you see in the milonga videos that is
>so different between USA and EU. Just curious, but I didn't see anything in
>the Amsterdam clip that was so different than my experience of milongas in
>the US, other than maybe the beautiful and spectacular high ceilings and
>arches in the building.
>
> J
> TangoMoments.com
>
>
>
>
>10:55:49 +0100> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Videos of Dancing at Milongas> >
>Sorin wrote:> > > I enjoy seeing video and pictures from events because
>they do help> > forming an idea on how the atmosphere is.> > I do too. Only
>after seeing Miles' recent videos from Denver and Boston was I able to
>appreciate how different are US festivals (these two, at least) v.
>European, and to make sense of much of the list comment about the dancing
>there.> > For the interest of US readers, here's a video of a festival
>milonga in Amsterdam:> > https://youtube.com/watch?v=raHTZ2jcUKY> > However
>I don't enjoy the professional filming we sometimes get in milongas...
>mainly due to the arc lamps, electrical cables snaking across the floor,
>and camera-bearers obstructing the ronda. Such as seen at the last Paris
>festival, sadly, where a wandering news crew was conducting impromtu
>interviews with couples... on the dance floor!> > Since !
> milongas are going to be filmed regardless, I'd say it is best that this
>be done by dancers such as Miles, rather than by insensitive outsiders.> >
>Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! Check out the
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