5184  what makes milonguero, milonguero

Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:24:57 EDT
From: TimmyTango@aol.com
Subject: [Tango-L] what makes milonguero, milonguero
To: tango-L@mit.edu




My feeling about milonguero style is that a lot of people are not educated in
knowing what the difference is between Milonguero vs Salon or close embrace
style.
I feel that a lot of people think they are dancing milongero only because
they are dancing close to their partner. This is false in my book.

To me:
close embrace is not Milonguero.
but
Milonguero is close embrace

Ask this to most people and I think a lot of people could not answer this
well.

It would be interesting to hear from the L list what you feel the difference
is between close embrace (salon) vs. what makes it Milonguero and lets educate
those who don't really know.

It's my feelings that
1. A Milonguero is basically just walking his entire dance, very close, and
not separating or opening very much. (yes, they breath a little, but
not much)
2. A Milonguero steps all of his turn to the beat of the music.
3. A Milonguero walks a higher percentage of the dance in the cross
walking system vs. Parallel.
4. a Milonguero stops or pauses the lady on one foot, he is on two.
5. A Milonguero does not do Gaunchos, or throw the lady up in the air
and land her on his knee. And a lot more embellishments.
6. Yes, a milonguero can do Boleos, but the women's foot stays on the
floor, not lifting up in the air.
7. a Milonguero dances for his partner, not the audience.

NOW, would you like to correct any of my differences or add to the list.
Please, I'd like to hear your thoughts

Timmy in Cleveland



See what's new at https://www.aol.com

Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:03:28 -0500
From: ceverett@ceverett.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] what makes milonguero, milonguero
To: TimmyTango@aol.com, "Tango-L" <tango-L@mit.edu>

In other words:

Draw a circle and label it "Salon", then draw a smaller circle
inside that, label that as "Close Embrace", then inside the
second circle draw a third you can finally label "Milonguero".

The Milonguero Circle is the set of limitations imposed by
accelerating decrepitude and dancing in tight quarters in
BA over the last 20 or so years. Of course, there is the
additional set of circumstances that most new "Milonguero"
dancers ape the styles of the lucky few dancers that found
a style many of their partners enjoy or ended up in a movie.

For those of us with a bit more space and athletic ability
(mostly balance), we have more possibilities, and we should
use them to develop our own styles, inside the limitations
that the social norms of tango impose, of course.

Christopher

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:24:57 EDT, TimmyTango@aol.com said:

> My feeling about milonguero style is that a lot of people are not
> educated in
> knowing what the difference is between Milonguero vs Salon or close
> embrace
> style.
> I feel that a lot of people think they are dancing milongero only because
> they are dancing close to their partner. This is false in my book.
>
> To me:
> close embrace is not Milonguero.
> but
> Milonguero is close embrace
>
> Ask this to most people and I think a lot of people could not answer this
> well.
>
> It would be interesting to hear from the L list what you feel the
> difference
> is between close embrace (salon) vs. what makes it Milonguero and lets
> educate
> those who don't really know.
>
> It's my feelings that
> 1. A Milonguero is basically just walking his entire dance, very close,
> and
> not separating or opening very much. (yes, they breath a little, but
> not much)
> 2. A Milonguero steps all of his turn to the beat of the music.
> 3. A Milonguero walks a higher percentage of the dance in the cross
> walking system vs. Parallel.
> 4. a Milonguero stops or pauses the lady on one foot, he is on two.
> 5. A Milonguero does not do Gaunchos, or throw the lady up in the air
> and land her on his knee. And a lot more embellishments.
> 6. Yes, a milonguero can do Boleos, but the women's foot stays on the
> floor, not lifting up in the air.
> 7. a Milonguero dances for his partner, not the audience.
>
> NOW, would you like to correct any of my differences or add to the list.
> Please, I'd like to hear your thoughts
>
> Timmy in Cleveland
>
>
>
> See what's new at https://www.aol.com

Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 22:54:50 -0500
From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] what makes milonguero, milonguero
To: "TimmyTango@aol.com" <TimmyTango@aol.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<cff24c340709202054g221b6822o6fd2bb0204d0024f@mail.gmail.com>

Labeling a way of dancing tango as 'milonguero' gets one quickly into a
briar patch. In the US Susana Miller introduced the label 'milonguero style'
tango in the mid-1990s, involving close embrace in apilado frame directly in
front of the partner (i.e., not offset), with the woman's usual head
orientation being over the man's right shoulder (vs. inward towards the
man's center), and walking forward with the weight landing on the heels
first, among other things. To some degree one observes this 'style' of
dancing to be quite common among porten~os in certain popular milongas
occuring on an almost daily basis in or near downtown Buenos Aires (e.g., El
Beso, Plaza Bohemia, Lo de Celia, Club Gricel). However, those who dance
'milonguero style' in the US lack the richness and uniqueness of the styles
of the more experienced older porten~os dancing in these Buenos Aires
milongas, particularly with respect to musicality and improvisation, so that
in the US one sees a fairly homogeneous style of tango in close embrace that
is distinct from the more common and more diverse variants of tango danced
in an open frame, which has had input from a wider variety of instructors

>from various various 'schools' or lineages of tango.

In Buenos Aires there is more continous variation among a much larger
population of dancers. The so-labeled for export 'milonguero style' exists
in significant numbers as a subset of variation in Buenos Aires, but the
posture, embrace, balance, walking and to some degree musicality and
vocabulary vary considerably among dancers, due in part to age, experience,
and neighborhood. However, it would be correct to say that the overwhelming
majority of porten~os (probably > 95%) dance tango in some variant of a
close embrace, with a minority opening slightly momentarily, typically only
on one side, for ochos and turns.

It should be noted that instructors using the label 'milonguero style' and
'tango milonguero' cover a wider range of stylistic variations than those
who use this label in traveling abroad.

The thickety area of thorns and bristles centers around the use of the term
'milonguero'. It is quite common, although not universally accepted in
Buenos Aires, to only call someone a 'milonguero' if that person was dancing
tango during the Golden Age (ending in the mid-1950's) and continued to
dance tango during the period of mid-1950s - mid-1980s when tango was in
recession. Another characteristic of a 'milonguero' is that tango is the
center of this person's life.

Some would say that only those dancing in an apilado frame are dancing the
style of the milongueros, although others would argue that offset frame,
more figure oriented styles characteristic of the outer neighborhoods
(marketed to some degree in the US as 'estilo de Villa Urquiza') is also
danced by 'milongueros' from these outer neighborhoods.


On 9/20/07, TimmyTango@aol.com <TimmyTango@aol.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> My feeling about milonguero style is that a lot of people are not educated
> in
> knowing what the difference is between Milonguero vs Salon or close
> embrace
> style.
> I feel that a lot of people think they are dancing milongero only because
> they are dancing close to their partner. This is false in my book.
>
> To me:
> close embrace is not Milonguero.
> but
> Milonguero is close embrace
>
> Ask this to most people and I think a lot of people could not answer this
> well.
>
> It would be interesting to hear from the L list what you feel the
> difference
> is between close embrace (salon) vs. what makes it Milonguero and lets
> educate
> those who don't really know.
>
> It's my feelings that
> 1. A Milonguero is basically just walking his entire dance, very close,
> and
> not separating or opening very much. (yes, they breath a little, but
> not much)
> 2. A Milonguero steps all of his turn to the beat of the music.
> 3. A Milonguero walks a higher percentage of the dance in the cross
> walking system vs. Parallel.
> 4. a Milonguero stops or pauses the lady on one foot, he is on two.
> 5. A Milonguero does not do Gaunchos, or throw the lady up in the air
> and land her on his knee. And a lot more embellishments.
> 6. Yes, a milonguero can do Boleos, but the women's foot stays on the
> floor, not lifting up in the air.
> 7. a Milonguero dances for his partner, not the audience.
>
> NOW, would you like to correct any of my differences or add to the list.
> Please, I'd like to hear your thoughts
>
> Timmy in Cleveland
>
>
>
> See what's new at https://www.aol.com
>

Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:07:01 -0400
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] what makes milonguero, milonguero
To: tango-L@mit.edu

Timmy in Cleveland,

Your phoney list has already destroyed any supposed attempt to engage in meaningful
dialogue on the differences between close embrace salon and milonguero. And it also
demonstrates that you don't really want any such dialogue. All you want to do is
denegrate those who don't dance your concept of milonguero.

And, before you ask, I'm not going to waste my time commenting point-by-point on
your pathetic list. You obviously have no idea how close embrace salon is danced.

Keith, HK

On Thu Sep 20 18:24 , TimmyTango@aol.com sent:

>
>
>
>My feeling about milonguero style is that a lot of people are not educated in
>knowing what the difference is between Milonguero vs Salon or close embrace
>style.
>I feel that a lot of people think they are dancing milongero only because
>they are dancing close to their partner. This is false in my book.
>
>To me:
>close embrace is not Milonguero.
>but
>Milonguero is close embrace
>
>Ask this to most people and I think a lot of people could not answer this
>well.
>
>It would be interesting to hear from the L list what you feel the difference
>is between close embrace (salon) vs. what makes it Milonguero and lets educate
>those who don't really know.
>
>It's my feelings that
>1. A Milonguero is basically just walking his entire dance, very close, and
> not separating or opening very much. (yes, they breath a little, but
>not much)
>2. A Milonguero steps all of his turn to the beat of the music.
>3. A Milonguero walks a higher percentage of the dance in the cross
>walking system vs. Parallel.
>4. a Milonguero stops or pauses the lady on one foot, he is on two.
>5. A Milonguero does not do Gaunchos, or throw the lady up in the air
> and land her on his knee. And a lot more embellishments.
>6. Yes, a milonguero can do Boleos, but the women's foot stays on the
> floor, not lifting up in the air.
>7. a Milonguero dances for his partner, not the audience.
>
>NOW, would you like to correct any of my differences or add to the list.
>Please, I'd like to hear your thoughts
>
>Timmy in Cleveland
>
>
>
> See what's new at https://www.aol.com

Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:11:54 -0500
From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] what makes milonguero, milonguero (Part 2)
To: "TimmyTango@aol.com" <TimmyTango@aol.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<cff24c340709202111i291d080g72a7f02f8829ef8@mail.gmail.com>

I pressed the 'send' button instead of the 'save' button, so here's the
second part
________

Due to fairly continous variation in styles, in Buenos Aires it would be
difficult to demarcate clear boundaries such as 'milonguero style' vs.
'salon style'. By definition, all variations of tango danced in the milongas
comprise 'tango de salon'. 'Tango fantasia', or tango for the stage, is
distinct and rarely danced at BA milongas (although there are some
exceptions, particularly by tango fantasia instructors at milongas
frequented by tourists.

Outside of Buenos Aires, tango for the stage is danced regularly at milongas
and in many areas is the norm or most popular style. In many milongas there
are also those who dance a representative of stylistic variation in Buenos
Aires that has been labeled 'milonguero style'. Unlike Buenos Aires, where
there is nearly continuous variation in stylistic features, although nearly
all are in some form of close embrace, outside Argentina there is a gap,
with the close embrace 'milonguero style' being distinctly different from a
range of variants of stage tango. Thus, outside Argentina it may be useful
to refer to these differences as different styles because they involve
different technique and, to a large degree, a different repertoire of
'steps'.

However, in Buenos Aires, the term 'milonguero style' and trying to define
it becomes muddled within the lack of agreement regarding the definition of
a milonguero and the range of stylistic variation even among dancers that
fit a narrow definition of milonguero.

Ron




On 9/20/07, TimmyTango@aol.com <TimmyTango@aol.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> My feeling about milonguero style is that a lot of people are not educated
> in
> knowing what the difference is between Milonguero vs Salon or close
> embrace
> style.
> I feel that a lot of people think they are dancing milongero only because
> they are dancing close to their partner. This is false in my book.
>
> To me:
> close embrace is not Milonguero.
> but
> Milonguero is close embrace
>
> Ask this to most people and I think a lot of people could not answer this
> well.
>
> It would be interesting to hear from the L list what you feel the
> difference
> is between close embrace (salon) vs. what makes it Milonguero and lets
> educate
> those who don't really know.
>
> It's my feelings that
> 1. A Milonguero is basically just walking his entire dance, very close,
> and
> not separating or opening very much. (yes, they breath a little, but
> not much)
> 2. A Milonguero steps all of his turn to the beat of the music.
> 3. A Milonguero walks a higher percentage of the dance in the cross
> walking system vs. Parallel.
> 4. a Milonguero stops or pauses the lady on one foot, he is on two.
> 5. A Milonguero does not do Gaunchos, or throw the lady up in the air
> and land her on his knee. And a lot more embellishments.
> 6. Yes, a milonguero can do Boleos, but the women's foot stays on the
> floor, not lifting up in the air.
> 7. a Milonguero dances for his partner, not the audience.
>
> NOW, would you like to correct any of my differences or add to the list.
> Please, I'd like to hear your thoughts
>
> Timmy in Cleveland
>
>
>
> See what's new at https://www.aol.com
>

Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 08:48:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: musette fan <musettefan@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] what makes milonguero, milonguero
To: TimmyTango@aol.com, tango-L@mit.edu

I'm hardly an expert, but as a follower, it seems to me to be simply a more rhythmic
style, i.e. much more strictly (or literally) connected to the beat, in step,
emphasis and musical expression. It can be very simple, "just walking" on the beat,
or more complex by playing a lot with weight and dynamic changes, according to skill
and inclination (akin to milonga I suppose). This is why it feels great with some
orchestras and songs, and, well, not as good with others. If I'm misunderstanding
or confusing it with another style I hope someone will speak up!

Terri


--- TimmyTango@aol.com wrote:

>
>
>
> My feeling about milonguero style is that a lot of people are not educated in
> knowing what the difference is between Milonguero vs Salon or close embrace
> style.
> I feel that a lot of people think they are dancing milongero only because
> they are dancing close to their partner. This is false in my book.
>
> To me:
> close embrace is not Milonguero.
> but
> Milonguero is close embrace
>
> Ask this to most people and I think a lot of people could not answer this
> well.
>
> It would be interesting to hear from the L list what you feel the difference
> is between close embrace (salon) vs. what makes it Milonguero and lets educate
> those who don't really know.
>
> It's my feelings that
> 1. A Milonguero is basically just walking his entire dance, very close, and
> not separating or opening very much. (yes, they breath a little, but
> not much)
> 2. A Milonguero steps all of his turn to the beat of the music.
> 3. A Milonguero walks a higher percentage of the dance in the cross
> walking system vs. Parallel.
> 4. a Milonguero stops or pauses the lady on one foot, he is on two.
> 5. A Milonguero does not do Gaunchos, or throw the lady up in the air
> and land her on his knee. And a lot more embellishments.
> 6. Yes, a milonguero can do Boleos, but the women's foot stays on the
> floor, not lifting up in the air.
> 7. a Milonguero dances for his partner, not the audience.
>
> NOW, would you like to correct any of my differences or add to the list.
> Please, I'd like to hear your thoughts
>
> Timmy in Cleveland
>
>
>
> See what's new at https://www.aol.com
>