3193 What's a Master
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 07:02:45 -0800
From: Yale Tango Club <yaletangoclub@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: What's a Master
Listeros,
I think there are hundreds of dancers in the milongas of BsAs who comply with the requirements below while not being Masters in the sense that we mean up here. These 60-year olds might execute an ocho masterfully and melt all the women on the floor, but not include in their repertoire the kind of more individual and signature moves that makes other good dancers want to learn from them. These moves need not be flashy, just interesting and different.
And who says you need at least 40 years to put down a perfect ocho. I think some talented people can do it in 5.
Importantly, a Master needs to know how to TEACH.
Tine
> What are the requirements for a master of tango?
>
> Perhaps:
> a) Trajectory (not less than 40 years dancing
> experience)
> b) Formed exclusively in the tango salons of Buenos
> Aires
> c) Not coming from other dances
> d) Proficient of at least 3 or more tango styles
>
> Not sure may somebody else might know more about
> what constitutes a master
> of the tango dance.
>
Larry Gmucs <gmucs@YAHOO.COM> wrote:My observation is that a "master" in most fields is
usually self-proclaimed. The true masters are those
who are recognized as such but without the label....
If you have to advertise how important you are, you
probably aren't.
--- Bruno wrote:
> Alberto Sanders wrote:
>
> >So I was asking myself: What on earth is this list
> for?
> If it is not to learn from a master and discus his
> views and reflections.
> [.....].<
>
> My take on the post above:
>
> What are the requirements for a master of tango?
>
> Perhaps:
> a) Trajectory (not less than 40 years dancing
> experience)
> b) Formed exclusively in the tango salons of Buenos
> Aires
> c) Not coming from other dances
> d) Proficient of at least 3 or more tango styles
>
> Not sure may somebody else might know more about
> what constitutes a master
> of the tango dance.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bruno
>
************************
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Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:11:31 -0800
From: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
Subject: Re: What's a Master
It depends.
Maters of improvisational dance or Masters in staged dance?
Lonely or creators of a school?
Masters in dancing only or Masters in teaching?
Teaching is an art and science by itself and it would be too demanding to
require from all tango masters to be a good teacher.
I believe that "Top level of dancing is when recognized social dancers
dancing for themselves,
meditating in the dance, having fun, achieve visual effect of show dance.
These are true Masters!"
Igor Polk from San Francisco
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:45:37 -0800
From: Trini or Sean - PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: What's a Master
I agree with Igor on the separate uses of "master".
I offer another suggestion for defining a "master" -
the ability of one to inspire or change a large group
of others, particularly when it's enough to change the
genre.
Those that have changed the course of tango are
masters. Sometimes they aren't recognised as such
until after the fact.
One can be very good at what one does, but if it
doesn't have much affect on anyone else, would it
really then be "masterful"? I certainly wouldn't call
someone who only dances really well with one or two
particular partners a master.
I think it's the idea of inspiration that separates
out the very best practitioners in a field.
Trini de Pittsburgh
--- Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM> wrote:
> It depends.
> Maters of improvisational dance or Masters in staged
> dance?
> Lonely or creators of a school?
> Masters in dancing only or Masters in teaching?
> Teaching is an art and science by itself and it
> would be too demanding to
> require from all tango masters to be a good teacher.
> I believe that "Top level of dancing is when
> recognized social dancers
> dancing for themselves,
> meditating in the dance, having fun, achieve visual
> effect of show dance.
> These are true Masters!"
>
> Igor Polk from San Francisco
>
>
> Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to
> Tango-A rather than to
> Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To
> subscribe to Tango-A,
> send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to
> LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
>
>
=====
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:02:40 -0800
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: What's a Master
Dear Igor:
I believe that "Top level of dancing is when
> recognized social dancers
> dancing for themselves,
> meditating in the dance, having fun, achieve visual
> effect of show dance.
> These are true Masters!"
Exactly...
It always amazes me how "the really bad dancers" are
the self appointed teachers. Just because someone
announces to the world that they are a tango
teacher...and goes into the "tango teaching
business"... that does does not mean they are anything
special.
I say, that if people do not look great on the floor
in a social situation and really enjoy the dance, why
would anyone want to take lessons from them? If one
does not want to "be them", why would one take lessons
from them...lol.
Most tango teachers that I have seen are boring on the
floor and their students are also boring on the floor.
I guess tango is a lot like life...
Sorry, could not resist...
Derik
https://www.tangoworldwide.com
--- Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM> wrote:
> It depends.
> Maters of improvisational dance or Masters in staged
> dance?
> Lonely or creators of a school?
> Masters in dancing only or Masters in teaching?
> Teaching is an art and science by itself and it
> would be too demanding to
> require from all tango masters to be a good teacher.
> I believe that "Top level of dancing is when
> recognized social dancers
> dancing for themselves,
> meditating in the dance, having fun, achieve visual
> effect of show dance.
> These are true Masters!"
>
> Igor Polk from San Francisco
>
>
> Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to
> Tango-A rather than to
> Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To
> subscribe to Tango-A,
> send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to
> LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 22:27:16 -0800
From: el turco <shusheta@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: What's a Master
Understanding Tango MAESTRO as paradigm!
-folks, don't forget about the nationality, if you are not from
Argentina you can not be-become a Master! this misconception is
really common in US. There are few non-argentine names announced as
Masters of Argentine Tango such as Brigitta Winkler, Metin Yazir,
Paulo Araujo et al.
- don't forget about the age! if you are not old enough (!) you can
not be-become master they have to eat much more bread!!! For age, i
have no idea a about "the threshold". this whole classification sounds
subjective.
i prefer to define "master" as its particular importance in tango. For instance;
- master of which tango metaphor (milonga traspie/vals/ enrosque or
close embrace and so on...)
- master of tango pedagogy? another issue ( apparently more important
for leaders= leaders are more picky about this parameter).
Maestro" as Body-Gender Paradigm;
- Maestro is given name for Male Tango Teachers-dancers with
particular experience on certain tango topics. This is aby-product of
Argentine Tango and its sociological development. Like in Flamenco,
until sometime women were not allowed to present themselves
verbally-they were allowed to present themselves non-verbally by
dancing. Hence, the power of speech stayed on the MEN's side and under
control.
Of course there few names i can recall as best female tango teachers-dancers.
This happened to female tango singers,
Also female tango orchestra formations and musicians got the same
problem; between 1920 and 1935 there were several women's orchestras
alive, however NONE of them recorded. The beloved Golden Age- dominant
in every milonga playlist didn't produce as many women's orchestras as
early 1930s.
-Paquita Bernardo and her sextet
-Orquesta tipica La Portenita
were two of the most famous women's orchestras between 1920 and 1935.
Paquita Bernardo was the first professional FEMALE bandoneon player,
but unfortunately we will never be blessed to hear her playing again.
Eagerly looking forward to see more argentine and non-argentine
MAESTRAs in future.
Burak in Minneapolis
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:02:40 -0800, Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Dear Igor:
>
> I believe that "Top level of dancing is when
> > recognized social dancers
> > dancing for themselves,
> > meditating in the dance, having fun, achieve visual
> > effect of show dance.
> > These are true Masters!"
>
> Exactly...
>
> It always amazes me how "the really bad dancers" are
> the self appointed teachers. Just because someone
> announces to the world that they are a tango
> teacher...and goes into the "tango teaching
> business"... that does does not mean they are anything
> special.
>
> I say, that if people do not look great on the floor
> in a social situation and really enjoy the dance, why
> would anyone want to take lessons from them? If one
> does not want to "be them", why would one take lessons
> from them...lol.
>
> Most tango teachers that I have seen are boring on the
> floor and their students are also boring on the floor.
> I guess tango is a lot like life...
>
> Sorry, could not resist...
>
> Derik
> https://www.tangoworldwide.com
>
> --- Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM> wrote:
>
> > It depends.
> > Maters of improvisational dance or Masters in staged
> > dance?
> > Lonely or creators of a school?
> > Masters in dancing only or Masters in teaching?
> > Teaching is an art and science by itself and it
> > would be too demanding to
> > require from all tango masters to be a good teacher.
> > I believe that "Top level of dancing is when
> > recognized social dancers
> > dancing for themselves,"
> > meditating in the dance, having fun, achieve visual
> > effect of show dance.
> > These are true Masters!"
> >
> > Igor Polk from San Francisco
> >
> >
> > Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to
> > Tango-A rather than to
> > Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To
> > subscribe to Tango-A,
> > send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to
> > LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
> >-
> >
> >
>
>
>
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 01:48:37 -0700
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: What's a Master
El turco wrote:
>-folks, don't forget about the nationality, if you are not from
Argentina you can not be-become a Master! this misconception is
really common in US. There are few non-argentine names announced as
Masters of Argentine Tango such as Brigitta Winkler, Metin Yazir,
Paulo Araujo et al.<
There was an international competition of tango salon in Buneos Aires last
year, but none of the names you have mentioned qualified.
Best regards,
Bruno
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 02:44:48 -0700
From: Brian Dunn <brian@DANCEOFTHEHEART.COM>
Subject: RV: [TANGO-L] What's a Master
Trini wrote:
====
I offer another suggestion for defining a "master" - the ability of one to
inspire or change a large group
of others, particularly when it's enough to change the genre...Those that
have changed the course of tango are
masters. Sometimes they aren't recognised as such until after the fact...I
think it's the idea of inspiration that separates out the very best
practitioners in a field.
====
This is a big part of it for me - some teachers merely excel at their craft,
while others are "seminal" in the sense that their work has "legs", and
makes a contribution that leaves a legacy.
But there?s another sense of "master" that's equally if not more important
for me. As I understand it, when a dancer or teacher speaks of another and
says "I call him maestro", it reflects not so much just a theoretically
objective assessment of a teacher's relative worth, but instead a
declaration of a certain kind of relationship between student and teacher, a
certain intimacy-in-learning. I've studied with many "master teachers", and
appreciated them all, but only a few have I felt that emotional connection
that would lead me to use words like that. There's a devotional aspect, in
the best possible sense, to the relationship. I feel the opportunity to
find such a teacher is very much worth the considerable effort of sifting
through potential candidates. When you finally experience that waterfall of
inspiration, you KNOW it's been worth it.
In a similar connection, it is fascinating to me whether, and how, tango
teachers refer to those who are or have been THEIR teachers. There's a
certain clarity and honorable openness that I experience with teachers who
openly refer by name to those upon whose shoulders they stand. Those
teachers who choose to share their tango roots help their students by
providing them context and continuity, so we as students can more accurately
place the teacher's gifts to us within the spectrum of tango culture.
All the best,
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
Boulder, Colorado USA
www.danceoftheheart.com
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2005 09:05:12 -0800
From: Iron Logic <railogic@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: What's a Master
>>There was an international competition of tango salon in Buneos Aires last
>>year, but none of the names you have mentioned qualified.
DId Gustavo Naveira or Fabian Salas qualify?
What about Carlos Gavito?
;)
Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET> wrote:
El turco wrote:
>-folks, don't forget about the nationality, if you are not from
Argentina you can not be-become a Master! this misconception is
really common in US. There are few non-argentine names announced as
Masters of Argentine Tango such as Brigitta Winkler, Metin Yazir,
Paulo Araujo et al.<
There was an international competition of tango salon in Buneos Aires last
year, but none of the names you have mentioned qualified.
