5179 Who's leading?
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 00:49:39 -0300
From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] Who's leading?
To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
Tango Argentino, which opened in Paris in November 1983, had all possible
combinations: (1) men dancing with men, (2) men dancing with women, and (3)
a woman dancing with a woman. The 1999 New York revival had the following:
(1) El Apache Argentino (M. Aroztegui - A. Mathon)
dancers: Juan Carlos Copes, Pablo Veron, Antonio Cervila Jr., Luis Pereyra,
Carlos Borquez, Carlos Copello
(2) Hector Mayoral with Elsa Maria, Pablo Veron with Guillermina Quiroga,
Juan Carlos Copes with Maria Nieves, Nelson Avila with Nelida, Carlos
Copello with Alicia Monti, Roberto Herrera with Lorena Yacono, etc.
(3) Nelida danced a Parisian tango with Vanina Bilous. The program
contains a full-page photo of them dancing together at arms-length. I
attended the November 1999 performance in Buenos Aires and remember the
complete wardrobe change Nelida accomplished on stage with Vanina standing
behind Nelson.
Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2007 01:57:04 -0700
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Who's leading?
To: <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
A woman.
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:01:33 -0400
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Who's leading?
Hahahaha. That's what I thought, but it sounds better coming from a woman.
Guy sounds like a dufus.
Keith, HK
On Thu Sep 20 23:01 , Nina Pesochinsky sent:
>If someone had offered me to "do a few milongas", I am not sure I
>would have answered it any differently than this woman. :)
>
>Language holds power. Never underestimate the power of seduction
>(salesmanship, persuasion). This is an example of a failed sales
>attempt. The man had 2 seconds for a sales pitch and he failed to
>sell himself and the experience he was offering to the woman, and she
>did not want to be a woman with him.
>
>Nina
>
>
>
>
>
>>Overheard recently at a Portland Tango event:
>>
>> MAN: Would you like to do a few of these milongas?
>> WOMAN: Not as a woman.
>> MAN: OK. Thanks anyhow.
>>
>>
>>
>>Igor Polk ipolk@virtuar.com> wrote:
>> A woman.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
>
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:18:35 -0400
From: "fortune elkins" <frelkins@aliencamel.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Who's leading?
As a total newbie, who has been taking classes for about 3 weeks, let
me say that I personally benefit from a lead who knows who he is,
where he wants to go, isn't afraid to be Tango Man and give a clear
lead. I personally find I dance much better when I can zone out,
listen to the music, close my eyes, and just focus on the leading
signals.
But that requires the lead to LEAD ME. HE HAS GOT TO DRIVE. Then the
dance looks like tango and not say, jitterbug. Thank god tango seems a
refuge from political correctness.
This is my first post, but I am equipped for the inevitable flames
that will come my way. (grin) All I can say is, if any patient guy
with a clear assertive lead is around, that's the one I hope to dance
with!
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:01:33 -0400
Keith <keith@tangohk.com> wrote:
> Hahahaha. That's what I thought, but it sounds better coming from a
>woman.
>
> Guy sounds like a dufus.
>
> Keith, HK
>
> On Thu Sep 20 23:01 , Nina Pesochinsky sent:
>
>>If someone had offered me to "do a few milongas", I am not sure I
>>would have answered it any differently than this woman. :)
>>
>>Language holds power. Never underestimate the power of seduction
>>(salesmanship, persuasion). This is an example of a failed sales
>>attempt. The man had 2 seconds for a sales pitch and he failed to
>>sell himself and the experience he was offering to the woman, and she
>>did not want to be a woman with him.
>>
>>Nina
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Overheard recently at a Portland Tango event:
>>>
>>> MAN: Would you like to do a few of these milongas?
>>> WOMAN: Not as a woman.
>>> MAN: OK. Thanks anyhow.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Igor Polk ipolk@virtuar.com> wrote:
>>> A woman.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
>>
>
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:41:26 -0400
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Who's leading?
Fortune,
Since you're already expecting flames, please let me be the first.
3 weeks of classes and you already know what you need from the lead.
Wow, that's impressive.
Might I suggest that you concentrate on what you need to learn as a
follow before you start telling your leads what they should be doing.
What you say happens to be correct but I suspect it's what you've been
told rather than what you actually know from experience. Excluding your
teacher I doubt if you can recognise a good leader from one of the many
morons who manhandle the beginner girls around the floor. The worst
dancer here can impress beginners. But after 3 months, they'll never
dance with him again.
Finally, please don't judge all the leads by comparison with how
well your teacher leads you. Otherwise you'll be in for a world of
disappointments and you may end up not dancing with anybody. You're a
beginner - expect to dance with beginners and don't think too much of
yourself.
And, IMHO, a beginner of 3 weeks who closes her eyes just looks stupid.
Keith, HK
On Fri Sep 21 1:18 , "fortune elkins" sent:
>As a total newbie, who has been taking classes for about 3 weeks, let
>me say that I personally benefit from a lead who knows who he is,
>where he wants to go, isn't afraid to be Tango Man and give a clear
>lead. I personally find I dance much better when I can zone out,
>listen to the music, close my eyes, and just focus on the leading
>signals.
>
>But that requires the lead to LEAD ME. HE HAS GOT TO DRIVE. Then the
>dance looks like tango and not say, jitterbug. Thank god tango seems a
>refuge from political correctness.
>
>This is my first post, but I am equipped for the inevitable flames
>that will come my way. (grin) All I can say is, if any patient guy
>with a clear assertive lead is around, that's the one I hope to dance
>with!
>
>On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:01:33 -0400
> Keith keith@tangohk.com> wrote:
>> Hahahaha. That's what I thought, but it sounds better coming from a
>>woman.
>>
>> Guy sounds like a dufus.
>>
>> Keith, HK
>>
>> On Thu Sep 20 23:01 , Nina Pesochinsky sent:
>>
>>>If someone had offered me to "do a few milongas", I am not sure I
>>>would have answered it any differently than this woman. :)
>>>
>>>Language holds power. Never underestimate the power of seduction
>>>(salesmanship, persuasion). This is an example of a failed sales
>>>attempt. The man had 2 seconds for a sales pitch and he failed to
>>>sell himself and the experience he was offering to the woman, and she
>>>did not want to be a woman with him.
>>>
>>>Nina
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Overheard recently at a Portland Tango event:
>>>>
>>>> MAN: Would you like to do a few of these milongas?
>>>> WOMAN: Not as a woman.
>>>> MAN: OK. Thanks anyhow.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Igor Polk ipolk@virtuar.com> wrote:
>>>> A woman.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:30:39 -0700
From: "Konstantin Zahariev" <anfractuoso@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Who's leading?
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
<ade549600709211030s1dc47018x8713f57f21f35c3f@mail.gmail.com>
Wow, nice going, Keith.
In the process of advising Fortune that she might have made too many
assumptions and some of them might be wrong, you proceed to make a
host of assumptions and projections about her that extrapolate based
on a single piece of information you know.
And then you finish with an implied personal insult.
You make sure everyone knows you are being sarcastic when you say "3
weeks of classes and you already know what you need from the lead.
Wow, that's impressive.", but it is - it is impressive.
I also do not like your dripping condescension. Are we in high school
again (or on the pre-school playground)? Did you forget that you were
once a beginner? I don't remember seeing you here being vulnerable and
honest with how far you have progressed with tango writing in the big
bad boys forum of Tango-L.. Who says only the know-it-mosts can write
here and expect respect? Whatever happened to being welcoming and
helpful without kicking someone in the face for good morning?
Fortune will probably be able to sift through the mud and extract a
few bits of good advice from your posting, but it does not have to be
done this way. Just my opinion, of course. Please feel free to express
the real you. God forbid someone restrict your right to free
condescension and insult-wielding.
With best regards,
Konstantin
Victoria, Canada
On 9/20/07, Keith <keith@tangohk.com> wrote:
> Fortune,
>
> Since you're already expecting flames, please let me be the first.
>
> 3 weeks of classes and you already know what you need from the lead.
> Wow, that's impressive.
>
> Might I suggest that you concentrate on what you need to learn as a
> follow before you start telling your leads what they should be doing.
>
> What you say happens to be correct but I suspect it's what you've been
> told rather than what you actually know from experience. Excluding your
> teacher I doubt if you can recognise a good leader from one of the many
> morons who manhandle the beginner girls around the floor. The worst
> dancer here can impress beginners. But after 3 months, they'll never
> dance with him again.
>
> Finally, please don't judge all the leads by comparison with how
> well your teacher leads you. Otherwise you'll be in for a world of
> disappointments and you may end up not dancing with anybody. You're a
> beginner - expect to dance with beginners and don't think too much of
> yourself.
>
> And, IMHO, a beginner of 3 weeks who closes her eyes just looks stupid.
>
> Keith, HK
>
> On Fri Sep 21 1:18 , "fortune elkins" sent:
>
> >As a total newbie, who has been taking classes for about 3 weeks, let
> >me say that I personally benefit from a lead who knows who he is,
> >where he wants to go, isn't afraid to be Tango Man and give a clear
> >lead. I personally find I dance much better when I can zone out,
> >listen to the music, close my eyes, and just focus on the leading
> >signals.
> >
> >But that requires the lead to LEAD ME. HE HAS GOT TO DRIVE. Then the
> >dance looks like tango and not say, jitterbug. Thank god tango seems a
> >refuge from political correctness.
> >
> >This is my first post, but I am equipped for the inevitable flames
> >that will come my way. (grin) All I can say is, if any patient guy
> >with a clear assertive lead is around, that's the one I hope to dance
> >with!
> >
> >On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:01:33 -0400
> > Keith keith@tangohk.com> wrote:
> >> Hahahaha. That's what I thought, but it sounds better coming from a
> >>woman.
> >>
> >> Guy sounds like a dufus.
> >>
> >> Keith, HK
> >>
> >> On Thu Sep 20 23:01 , Nina Pesochinsky sent:
> >>
> >>>If someone had offered me to "do a few milongas", I am not sure I
> >>>would have answered it any differently than this woman. :)
> >>>
> >>>Language holds power. Never underestimate the power of seduction
> >>>(salesmanship, persuasion). This is an example of a failed sales
> >>>attempt. The man had 2 seconds for a sales pitch and he failed to
> >>>sell himself and the experience he was offering to the woman, and she
> >>>did not want to be a woman with him.
> >>>
> >>>Nina
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Overheard recently at a Portland Tango event:
> >>>>
> >>>> MAN: Would you like to do a few of these milongas?
> >>>> WOMAN: Not as a woman.
> >>>> MAN: OK. Thanks anyhow.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Igor Polk ipolk@virtuar.com> wrote:
> >>>> A woman.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
>
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:22:16 -0700
From: L <casadepractica@pacbell.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] Fwd: Who's leading?
I'm pretty sure this is the first time I have actually responded to
any of the usual pontificating e-mails sent on this list. Even
though "fortune" says she was ready to be attacked, it certainly
should not have been considered an invitation for you, KeithHK, to do
so.
It is important for the more seasoned participants in the world-wide
tango community to nurture newcomers and, perhaps, remember when they
were beginners themselves.
It is possible Fortune is a seasoned dancer in some other kind of
dance form and even though I feel AT is very different from other
dances, a person who knows other dances can usually catch on faster
than one who doesn't.
When I was a beginner, I almost always closed my eyes -- it doesn't
always mean one is in a state of ecstasy, it also means the follower
gets less distractions. Even now, when I dance with some people in
close embrace who do not have a clear lead, I close my eyes to better
concentrate on what they're trying to tell me.
And, while I definitely agree with you that leaders Fortune thinks
are wonderful now, she will find mediocre or really bad as she
progresses. On the other hand, I can tell you from experience that
it is highly likely she can pick out a bad lead, even at this point.
As far as Fortune expecting to dance with beginners, it would
probably be a good idea for some more advanced dancers to make a
point of dancing with an obvious beginner from time to time.
Afterall, he can always ask for that dance at the last dance of a
tanda and then if it's awful, it's only one dance. What a really
good leader should do with a beginner -- or for that fact anyone he
dances with for the first time -- is to start as simply as possible
and keep adding to the repertoire as she is able to follow the lead.
The bad leader is the one who starts dancing with someone for the
first time and feels he has to show her all his fancy moves.
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:44:18 -0400
From: Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Fwd: Who's leading?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I would passionately second this request for more advanced leaders to
nurture the growth of the US tango community by taking some time out to
dance with beginning follows. If a beginning follow dances only with
other beginners, and does not get any dance time with instructors who
are leads, the follow will not learn what it feels like to be able to
balance properly having a good lead. Since the dance is so axis- and
balance-oriented, this is essential.
I'm sure the reverse is also true (advanced follows should give some
practice to beginning leads to experience a follow who does not drape,
gives feedback and frame, is responsive to leads, etc) but I will let
the leaders speak to that issue.
Regards,
Carol Shepherd
L wrote:
>
> It is important for the more seasoned participants in the world-wide
> tango community to nurture newcomers and, perhaps, remember when they
> were beginners themselves.
>
...
> As far as Fortune expecting to dance with beginners, it would
> probably be a good idea for some more advanced dancers to make a
> point of dancing with an obvious beginner from time to time.
> Afterall, he can always ask for that dance at the last dance of a
> tanda and then if it's awful, it's only one dance. What a really
> good leader should do with a beginner -- or for that fact anyone he
> dances with for the first time -- is to start as simply as possible
> and keep adding to the repertoire as she is able to follow the lead.
...
--
Carol Ruth Shepherd
Arborlaw PLC
Ann Arbor MI USA
734 668 4646 v 734 786 1241 f
https://arborlaw.com
opinion letters ? e-commerce ? employment law ? outsourcing
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 14:54:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: steve pastor <tang0man2005@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Who's leading?
For refuge from politcal correctness, I don't think anything beats Country Western.
While I see, here in Portland, men practicing with men, and women leading men at
practicas, (and even, rarely, at milongas) I have only seen two men dancing together
once or twice at a Country Western place in the course of over a decade of going out
once or twice a week. (It's mostly those West Coast Swing dancers.)
Lois Donnay asked, quite some time ago, if AT attracts a more liberal crowd. As I
remember it, she didn't get any public response. Yes, AT attracts a more liberal crowd
than country western, for sure, at least here in Portland.
fortune elkins <frelkins@aliencamel.com> wrote:
As a total newbie, who has been taking classes for about 3 weeks, let
me say that I personally benefit from a lead who knows who he is,
where he wants to go, isn't afraid to be Tango Man and give a clear
lead. I personally find I dance much better when I can zone out,
listen to the music, close my eyes, and just focus on the leading
signals.
But that requires the lead to LEAD ME. HE HAS GOT TO DRIVE. Then the
dance looks like tango and not say, jitterbug. Thank god tango seems a
refuge from political correctness.
This is my first post, but I am equipped for the inevitable flames
that will come my way. (grin) All I can say is, if any patient guy
with a clear assertive lead is around, that's the one I hope to dance
with!
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:01:33 -0400
Keith wrote:
> Hahahaha. That's what I thought, but it sounds better coming from a
>woman.
>
> Guy sounds like a dufus.
>
> Keith, HK
>
> On Thu Sep 20 23:01 , Nina Pesochinsky sent:
>
>>If someone had offered me to "do a few milongas", I am not sure I
>>would have answered it any differently than this woman. :)
>>
>>Language holds power. Never underestimate the power of seduction
>>(salesmanship, persuasion). This is an example of a failed sales
>>attempt. The man had 2 seconds for a sales pitch and he failed to
>>sell himself and the experience he was offering to the woman, and she
>>did not want to be a woman with him.
>>
>>Nina
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Overheard recently at a Portland Tango event:
>>>
>>> MAN: Would you like to do a few of these milongas?
>>> WOMAN: Not as a woman.
>>> MAN: OK. Thanks anyhow.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Igor Polk ipolk@virtuar.com> wrote:
>>> A woman.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
>>
>
>
>
>
Got a little couch potato?
Check out fun summer activities for kids.
Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:12:45 -0500
From: ceverett@ceverett.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Fwd: Who's leading?
To: shepherd@arborlaw.com, "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
I would not still be dancing without the encouragement I got from the
women in my previous community in my first year or so of dancing.
Christopher
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:44:18 -0400, "Carol Shepherd"
<arborlaw@comcast.net> said:
> I would passionately second this request for more advanced leaders to
> nurture the growth of the US tango community by taking some time out to
> dance with beginning follows. If a beginning follow dances only with
> other beginners, and does not get any dance time with instructors who
> are leads, the follow will not learn what it feels like to be able to
> balance properly having a good lead. Since the dance is so axis- and
> balance-oriented, this is essential.
>
> I'm sure the reverse is also true (advanced follows should give some
> practice to beginning leads to experience a follow who does not drape,
> gives feedback and frame, is responsive to leads, etc) but I will let
> the leaders speak to that issue.
>
> Regards,
>
> Carol Shepherd
>
> L wrote:
>
> >
> > It is important for the more seasoned participants in the world-wide
> > tango community to nurture newcomers and, perhaps, remember when they
> > were beginners themselves.
> >
> ...
>
>
> > As far as Fortune expecting to dance with beginners, it would
> > probably be a good idea for some more advanced dancers to make a
> > point of dancing with an obvious beginner from time to time.
> > Afterall, he can always ask for that dance at the last dance of a
> > tanda and then if it's awful, it's only one dance. What a really
> > good leader should do with a beginner -- or for that fact anyone he
> > dances with for the first time -- is to start as simply as possible
> > and keep adding to the repertoire as she is able to follow the lead.
> ...
>
> --
> Carol Ruth Shepherd
> Arborlaw PLC
> Ann Arbor MI USA
> 734 668 4646 v 734 786 1241 f
> https://arborlaw.com
>
> opinion letters ? e-commerce ? employment law ? outsourcing
>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 00:07:34 +0100
From: Tony <tony@oakebooks.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Who's leading?
Hi Fortune
I'm fairly new on this list myself.
You reminded me of when I first took classes, a year and a half ago. The
followers there had all been going for a few weeks and were obviously
ahead of me. It was quite a challenge for me initially, and as I see
lots of the guys who come to the beginners' class now leave after a
short while, I guess it's the same for them. (Hint - new leaders needed
in Oxford!) In my second class we were shown an exercise and asked to
pair up and try it. I asked this gorgeous redhead if she'd dance with me
and she was like "You don't know how to do this." Fortunately she did
change her tune but I think many guys would just give up at that. Latin
dances are often dominated by women (kind of ironic, don't you think?)
and of course it's always a pleasure to dance with someone who really
knows what they're doing, but please, don't neglect the beginners,
Fortune, you'll help more of them become experts one day.
Like I'll be in another ten years!
Keep dancin',
Tony
fortune elkins wrote:
> As a total newbie, who has been taking classes for about 3 weeks, let
> me say that I personally benefit from a lead who knows who he is,
> where he wants to go, isn't afraid to be Tango Man and give a clear
> lead. I personally find I dance much better when I can zone out,
> listen to the music, close my eyes, and just focus on the leading
> signals.
>
> But that requires the lead to LEAD ME. HE HAS GOT TO DRIVE. Then the
> dance looks like tango and not say, jitterbug. Thank god tango seems a
> refuge from political correctness.
>
> This is my first post, but I am equipped for the inevitable flames
> that will come my way. (grin) All I can say is, if any patient guy
> with a clear assertive lead is around, that's the one I hope to dance
> with!
>
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:01:33 -0400
> Keith <keith@tangohk.com> wrote:
>
>> Hahahaha. That's what I thought, but it sounds better coming from a
>> woman.
>>
>> Guy sounds like a dufus.
>>
>> Keith, HK
>>
>> On Thu Sep 20 23:01 , Nina Pesochinsky sent:
>>
>>
>>> If someone had offered me to "do a few milongas", I am not sure I
>>> would have answered it any differently than this woman. :)
>>>
>>> Language holds power. Never underestimate the power of seduction
>>> (salesmanship, persuasion). This is an example of a failed sales
>>> attempt. The man had 2 seconds for a sales pitch and he failed to
>>> sell himself and the experience he was offering to the woman, and she
>>> did not want to be a woman with him.
>>>
>>> Nina
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Overheard recently at a Portland Tango event:
>>>>
>>>> MAN: Would you like to do a few of these milongas?
>>>> WOMAN: Not as a woman.
>>>> MAN: OK. Thanks anyhow.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Igor Polk ipolk@virtuar.com> wrote:
>>>> A woman.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Date: Sat, 22 Sep 2007 9:42:27 -0400
From: <dchester@charter.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Who's leading?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Fortune,
Despite what some people think, what you are feeling as a beginner is farely common. I've found that many beginning followers prefer a strong lead. A less rude way of saying what possibly Keith was getting at, is that as your skills improve, what you want from a lead may change.
Also, a lot of teachers recommend that new followers close their eyes, which helps them concentrate on what they are feeling from the lead. One thing I've learned since taking up tango, is that there's an awful lot of contradictory advice out there. I think some people haven't realized that just because they learned something one way, that doesn't mean it's the only way to learn it.
Take care, and enjoy the journey.
>From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
>Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Who's leading?
>Fortune,
>Since you're already expecting flames, please let me be the first.
>3 weeks of classes and you already know what you need from the lead.
Wow, that's impressive.
>Might I suggest that you concentrate on what you need to learn as a
follow before you start telling your leads what they should be doing.
>What you say happens to be correct but I suspect it's what you've been
told rather than what you actually know from experience. Excluding your
teacher I doubt if you can recognise a good leader from one of the many
morons who manhandle the beginner girls around the floor. The worst
dancer here can impress beginners. But after 3 months, they'll never
dance with him again.
>Finally, please don't judge all the leads by comparison with how
well your teacher leads you. Otherwise you'll be in for a world of
disappointments and you may end up not dancing with anybody. You're a
beginner - expect to dance with beginners and don't think too much of
yourself.
>And, IMHO, a beginner of 3 weeks who closes her eyes just looks stupid.
>Keith, HK
On Fri Sep 21 1:18 , "fortune elkins" sent:
>As a total newbie, who has been taking classes for about 3 weeks, let
>me say that I personally benefit from a lead who knows who he is,
>where he wants to go, isn't afraid to be Tango Man and give a clear
>lead. I personally find I dance much better when I can zone out,
>listen to the music, close my eyes, and just focus on the leading
>signals.
>
>But that requires the lead to LEAD ME. HE HAS GOT TO DRIVE. Then the
>dance looks like tango and not say, jitterbug. Thank god tango seems a
>refuge from political correctness.
>
>This is my first post, but I am equipped for the inevitable flames
>that will come my way. (grin) All I can say is, if any patient guy
>with a clear assertive lead is around, that's the one I hope to dance
>with!
Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 23:31 +0100 (BST)
From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Who's leading?
Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com
Fortune
Sounds like you've made an excellent start. Trust in what feels good to
you gives you a great foundation for the dance.
You've surely noticed that a few people deeply resent the idea that a
woman starts out already able to judge what works for her, rather than
having to have been taught this in classes. No surprise that these
resenters are generally male, and are class teachers.
Just ignore them.
Good luck!
Chris
> *Subject:* Re: [Tango-L] Who's leading?
> *From:* "fortune elkins" <frelkins@aliencamel.com>
> *Date:* Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:18:35 -0400
>
> As a total newbie, who has been taking classes for about 3 weeks, let
> me say that I personally benefit from a lead who knows who he is,
> where he wants to go, isn't afraid to be Tango Man and give a clear
> lead. I personally find I dance much better when I can zone out,
> listen to the music, close my eyes, and just focus on the leading
> signals.
>
> But that requires the lead to LEAD ME. HE HAS GOT TO DRIVE. Then the
> dance looks like tango and not say, jitterbug. Thank god tango seems a
> refuge from political correctness.
>
> This is my first post, but I am equipped for the inevitable flames
> that will come my way. (grin) All I can say is, if any patient guy
> with a clear assertive lead is around, that's the one I hope to dance
> with!
>
> On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:01:33 -0400
> Keith <keith@tangohk.com> wrote:
> > Hahahaha. That's what I thought, but it sounds better coming from a
> >woman.
> >
> > Guy sounds like a dufus.
> >
> > Keith, HK
> >
> > On Thu Sep 20 23:01 , Nina Pesochinsky sent:
> >
> >>If someone had offered me to "do a few milongas", I am not sure I
> >>would have answered it any differently than this woman. :)
> >>
> >>Language holds power. Never underestimate the power of seduction
> >>(salesmanship, persuasion). This is an example of a failed sales
> >>attempt. The man had 2 seconds for a sales pitch and he failed to
> >>sell himself and the experience he was offering to the woman, and she
> >>did not want to be a woman with him.
> >>
> >>Nina
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Overheard recently at a Portland Tango event:
> >>>
> >>> MAN: Would you like to do a few of these milongas?
> >>> WOMAN: Not as a woman.
> >>> MAN: OK. Thanks anyhow.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Igor Polk ipolk@virtuar.com> wrote:
> >>> A woman.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Yahoo! Travel.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Chris
