3751 WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO"
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:56:31 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO"
Igor Polk wrote:
>I remember in old days at that time the Beat was packed
>with the best San Francisco dancers. Not any more.
Are you saying that nuevo (neo) tango has become old??? In actuality, the
WSJ article seemed to be a few years behind the time. I had told the
reporter that when nuevo dancers had shown up at the Labor Day Tango
Festival in Denver in 2003, they were widely regarded as "nuevo brats"
because they were causing collisions on the floor with their flashy and
sometimes haphazard moves, but nuevo dancing was now widely accepted as a
legitmate style in the United States, and only time would tell if it would
survive. I added that in artistic revolutions aren't won by overthrowing
existing art forms. Rather they are won as a younger generation of
artists pursues a different vision and the older generation becomes
inactive or dies. Only time will tell if enough younger artists will
pursue nuevo style for it to become dominant.
Instead the reporter gave us a dramatized and incomplete rehash of Peter
Bengston's several-years old comments about the perspective taken by nuevo
extremists in the style wars
https://pythia.uoregon.edu/~llynch/Tango-L/2003/msg01686.html
Peter on the nuevo extremist view about milonguero-style:
>>For dodderers! An obvious compensation for a lack of body contact. They
only like staccato music recorded before 1930. And why must everything
always be as in Buenos Aires? The tango must change and adapt to new times
and places.<<
The reporter's comments:
>>Traditionalists simply long for the older styles: chest to chest, cheek
to cheek, and eyes closed in what is known as the tango trance. "Tango is
very close to the heart," dancer Moti Buchboot said. "That makes it really
easy for crazy zealots to go in there and say that their style is the
style and that's the only right style."<<
Peter on the nuevo extremist view about salon style:
>>The root of nuevo, but they have lost themselves in adoration of a
bygone time of tuxedos and cigarette holders. We can do all they do in
tango salón and much more - in a tracksuit if need be. And there's a lot
of music from other periods than just the 40s.<<
The reporter's comments:
>>For years, the very word tango brought images of sophistication and
glamour: tuxedoed, rose-clutching tangueros strutting across the floor
with leggy women -- tangueras -- in dresses slit up the thigh. ... For
most of a recent Saturday night, Homer Ladas staged what appeared to be a
program of traditional tango at a small studio here. Locked in tight
embrace, dozens of couples gently swirled on the scuffed wooden floor as
the sound of violins from the golden age of tango in the 1940s floated in
the air.<<
Peter on the nuevo extremist view about nuevo style:
>>Nuevo is the next step in a natural process of development. The tango
will die unless it grows and changes - and there's more than just social
tango. There's nothing like the intensity, the contact and the presence of
tango nuevo. Ahh...!<<
The reporter's comments:
>>But the tango was withering away. A lot of American milongas, or dance
parties, were kitschy affairs patronized by an aging and dwindling cast of
die-hards who danced to scratchy records of accordion music. ... This is
"neotango," a new millennium version of the dance ... [is] booming all
over the tango world. ... [I]n city after city across the U.S., a new
generation of tango dancers is packing the floor again. They swerve and
kick, not to the traditional violins of, say, the great Francisco Canaro's
orchestras, but to the dub beats of Massive Attack or wailing guitar lines
of Jimi Hendrix. Formal wear is out; sneakers, low-rider jeans and halter
tops are in. And the dance itself is different: faster, more fluid and
requiring more floor space. ... [T]he new version rotates over swaths of
floor at high speed.
In contrast, with the WSJ article, Peter's comments were insighttul,
brief, funny and balanced. As you may recall Peter also offered the
milonguero and salon perspectives on all three styles.
https://pythia.uoregon.edu/~llynch/Tango-L/2003/msg01686.html
With best regards,
Steve
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:22:20 -0700
From: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
Subject: WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO"
>Igor Polk wrote:
>>I remember in old days at that time the Beat was packed
>>with the best San Francisco dancers. Not any more.
>
>Are you saying that nuevo (neo) tango has become old???
No. I wanted to say that couple of years ago the Beat was still a focal
point of normal tango - close and open.
Unfortunately the article ( put in the central position of the first page of
the WSJ ! ) gives the green light, important endorsement to neo tango
promoters like Homer, but totally ignoring Masters like Julio Balmecida and
Corina de La Rosa.
The tone of the article is somewhat unfair to the Argentine Tango. Well, I
guess that is the point of view of the Wall Street..
It is not a big deal. I believe that tango is on its way and developing very
fast. Neo Tango and Tango Nuevo are sort of the same. To me the difference
is that Tango Nuevo is danced with Pugliese Tango music, while Neo Tango is
danced with some modern concoctions. ("Modern" does not mean "better"
here ). This music is also can be very good for tango. It is mostly a matter
of DJ skill, then the modernism itself.
Everything become fine, and all contradictions are eliminated if you think
about Nuevo or Neo as yet another tango dance. We have milonga, vals, tango
of 20s, salon tango of 50s, apilado, canyengue ( cayengue? ) all that should
be danced differently. We even have salsa! And there is no problem about it.
Those who do not dance salsa sit. If Gotan(just an example) music is
played - everybody should dance Neo. If Lomuto ( wonderful music of 20s, by
the way) is played - every body should dance Liso. This is it. Ballroom
dancers do not dance Pasodoble with Foxtrot music. We are still babies at
this. When all of us will know MANY tango dances - there will be no problems
at all.
Of course those who dance salsa go to salsa clubs. It looks like despite
their obvious similarity Neo Tango and Argentine Tango are best when they
are danced on different floors. They do not coexist together well on the
same floor, as well as salsa can be played at tango parties only as an
intermission.
This is not surprising, since the driving force of a dance is music. Play
different music, and you will get different dance. Even with the same steps.
Emotions, the whole atmosphere is changing, some very subtle ways of
performing the moves keeping accordance with the music feel. And that is
what defines the dance. May be Argentine Tango and Neo Tango do belong to
different clusters? The same way as American and International Tango belong
to the Ballroom cluster of dances? It is way too early to judge it. Will see
in 20-30 years.
Igor Polk
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 21:16:41 +0200
From: Áron ECSEDY <aron@MILONGA.HU>
Subject: Re: WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO"
Dear Igor,
I find this article positive, even though it is definitely not what most
purist want to hear.
There is a certain group of people who would never learn tango if it was
danced to traditional music, in the traditional ways. They would probably go
and learn salsa or swing. The new quasi-tango genre (call it the way you
want) is bringing some of these people in to learn something which is -
essentially - a form of tango, using very similar technique even though a
very different style.
Just think about it: if you feed Caló to people who grew up on pop music,
most of them will run away. If you give them Gotan Project, they might get
interested. If you give them their favourite hit, they might even start
dancing right there. Maybe it takes them several years and maybe they never
get to be a purist, but they will start to listen to old tango as well with
time. As for the style: they will also get old, when they won't have the
energy or the need to be hot and fast. But I think if they spend enough time
with this dance, they'll learn to dance simple steps in close embrace at
some point.
> This is not surprising, since the driving force of a dance is
> music. Play different music, and you will get different
> dance. Even with the same steps.
> Emotions, the whole atmosphere is changing, some very subtle
> ways of performing the moves keeping accordance with the
> music feel. And that is what defines the dance. May be
> Argentine Tango and Neo Tango do belong to different
> clusters? The same way as American and International Tango
> belong to the Ballroom cluster of dances? It is way too early
> to judge it. Will see in 20-30 years.
I think the major difference is that neotango (quasi-tango) borrowed the
technique from tango to express the feelings of the music it is danced to.
The dance is still tango, but when you perform it to non-tango music, it
becomes a generic walk-based couple-dance to X music. Tango has a great
potential to be a generic couple-dance. The "swango, salsango" hybrids are
actually a sign of the dance already mixing with others to increase (and
change) the vocabulary of the original tango dance. However, the word
"tango" is only a label if you don't dance the steps to tango music.
IMO Argentine tango in the form purist want to see it, is a sort of dead
end: in has no continuation other than the jazzy nuevo of Piazzolla and the
electronic music of neotango in the present. Everything else is just a copy
of a music form that fell out of mainstream ages ago (which is a pity, but
this is the case: the world does not listen to acoustic tango anymore - the
new orchestras are just holding up tradition). As for the dance, partner
dances in general fell out of mainstream decades ago. Recently salsa (and in
some places - like the US or Sweden - swing) presented a possibility to get
a splinter of its former popularity back...so in my view, any idea, no
matter how ridiculous, that is able to promote partner dancing is a good
one.
As for the style of the article (taking sides stuff included): it is using a
simple and effective trick. Such an article will create a trendy image of
the 'new' genre in the heads of people that are not interested in the old
tango stuff: that neotango is something new and radical and hot and exciting
and free versus the old, dusty form for the guys in tuxedo...on the other
hand those interested in the traditional version will see this new form a
bastard and will even feel more pushed to go for the real thing (a new form
of something always gives a higher value for the old one in the eyes of
people who like tradition). The end result is the same: more people come to
dance tango. Period.
Aron
Ecsedy Áron
***********
Aron ECSEDY
Tel: +36 (20) 329 66 99
ICQ# 46386265
https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/
* * * * *
https://www.milonga.hu/
"Follow those who seek the truth.
Run from those who claim to have found it."
"There is more than one way to cook an omlette."
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 16:03:45 -0400
From: Richard deSousa <mallpasso@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO"
Igor:
Your summary of the article may be right but it never received an okay
from Homer.
I spoke with him last night at the Beat and he wasn't happy with the
writer and what she published on the WSJ. In fact he was upset since
she picked the worst of what he said to her rather than write a balance
report. In short it was sensational and tittilating which is what
sells papers. The Beat is still the focus in most cases with
traditional tango with Homer, his partner/s, and Felipe with Rosa,
teaching on Monday evenings. I can tell you even at the All Nighter
the majority of the music played by Homer is traditional and it changes
only past 3am when the younger crowd dominates and neotango music is
played.
El Bandito de Tango
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:22:20 -0700
Subject: [TANGO-L] WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO"
>Igor Polk wrote:
>>I remember in old days at that time the Beat was packed
>>with the best San Francisco dancers. Not any more.
>
>Are you saying that nuevo (neo) tango has become old???
No. I wanted to say that couple of years ago the Beat was still a focal
point of normal tango - close and open.
Unfortunately the article ( put in the central position of the first
page of
the WSJ ! ) gives the green light, important endorsement to neo tango
promoters like Homer, but totally ignoring Masters like Julio Balmecida
and
Corina de La Rosa.
The tone of the article is somewhat unfair to the Argentine Tango.
Well, I
guess that is the point of view of the Wall Street..
It is not a big deal. I believe that tango is on its way and developing
very
fast. Neo Tango and Tango Nuevo are sort of the same. To me the
difference
is that Tango Nuevo is danced with Pugliese Tango music, while Neo
Tango is
danced with some modern concoctions. ("Modern" does not mean "better"
here ). This music is also can be very good for tango. It is mostly a
matter
of DJ skill, then the modernism itself.
Everything become fine, and all contradictions are eliminated if you
think
about Nuevo or Neo as yet another tango dance. We have milonga, vals,
tango
of 20s, salon tango of 50s, apilado, canyengue ( cayengue? ) all that
should
be danced differently. We even have salsa! And there is no problem
about it.
Those who do not dance salsa sit. If Gotan(just an example) music is
played - everybody should dance Neo. If Lomuto ( wonderful music of
20s, by
the way) is played - every body should dance Liso. This is it. Ballroom
dancers do not dance Pasodoble with Foxtrot music. We are still babies
at
this. When all of us will know MANY tango dances - there will be no
problems
at all.
Of course those who dance salsa go to salsa clubs. It looks like despite
their obvious similarity Neo Tango and Argentine Tango are best when
they
are danced on different floors. They do not coexist together well on the
same floor, as well as salsa can be played at tango parties only as an
intermission.
This is not surprising, since the driving force of a dance is music.
Play
different music, and you will get different dance. Even with the same
steps.
Emotions, the whole atmosphere is changing, some very subtle ways of
performing the moves keeping accordance with the music feel. And that is
what defines the dance. May be Argentine Tango and Neo Tango do belong
to
different clusters? The same way as American and International Tango
belong
to the Ballroom cluster of dances? It is way too early to judge it.
Will see
in 20-30 years.
Igor Polk
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:38:30 -0700
From: jpsighe <jpsighe@SIGHES.COM>
Subject: Re: WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO"
El Bandito de Tango,
I am pleased to read your message.
It's good to know that Homer feels that way. He is someone I like and
respect as a dedicated dancer and it would have been a little discouraging
if what was reported written, as sort of sponsored by him, was factual.
Unfortunately, one cannot control what a journalist will write, once the
interview is done...
When I get a chance to speak to Homer live, I will extend my thoughts of
courage.
Jean-Pierre S.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:04 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO"
Igor:
Your summary of the article may be right but it never received an okay
from Homer.
I spoke with him last night at the Beat and he wasn't happy with the
writer and what she published on the WSJ. In fact he was upset since
she picked the worst of what he said to her rather than write a balance
report. In short it was sensational and tittilating which is what
sells papers. The Beat is still the focus in most cases with
traditional tango with Homer, his partner/s, and Felipe with Rosa,
teaching on Monday evenings. I can tell you even at the All Nighter
the majority of the music played by Homer is traditional and it changes
only past 3am when the younger crowd dominates and neotango music is
played.
El Bandito de Tango
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:22:20 -0700
Subject: [TANGO-L] WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO"
>Igor Polk wrote:
>>I remember in old days at that time the Beat was packed
>>with the best San Francisco dancers. Not any more.
>
>Are you saying that nuevo (neo) tango has become old???
No. I wanted to say that couple of years ago the Beat was still a focal
point of normal tango - close and open.
Unfortunately the article ( put in the central position of the first
page of
the WSJ ! ) gives the green light, important endorsement to neo tango
promoters like Homer, but totally ignoring Masters like Julio Balmecida
and
Corina de La Rosa.
The tone of the article is somewhat unfair to the Argentine Tango.
Well, I
guess that is the point of view of the Wall Street..
It is not a big deal. I believe that tango is on its way and developing
very
fast. Neo Tango and Tango Nuevo are sort of the same. To me the
difference
is that Tango Nuevo is danced with Pugliese Tango music, while Neo
Tango is
danced with some modern concoctions. ("Modern" does not mean "better"
here ). This music is also can be very good for tango. It is mostly a
matter
of DJ skill, then the modernism itself.
Everything become fine, and all contradictions are eliminated if you
think
about Nuevo or Neo as yet another tango dance. We have milonga, vals,
tango
of 20s, salon tango of 50s, apilado, canyengue ( cayengue? ) all that
should
be danced differently. We even have salsa! And there is no problem
about it.
Those who do not dance salsa sit. If Gotan(just an example) music is
played - everybody should dance Neo. If Lomuto ( wonderful music of
20s, by
the way) is played - every body should dance Liso. This is it. Ballroom
dancers do not dance Pasodoble with Foxtrot music. We are still babies
at
this. When all of us will know MANY tango dances - there will be no
problems
at all.
Of course those who dance salsa go to salsa clubs. It looks like despite
their obvious similarity Neo Tango and Argentine Tango are best when
they
are danced on different floors. They do not coexist together well on the
same floor, as well as salsa can be played at tango parties only as an
intermission.
This is not surprising, since the driving force of a dance is music.
Play
different music, and you will get different dance. Even with the same
steps.
Emotions, the whole atmosphere is changing, some very subtle ways of
performing the moves keeping accordance with the music feel. And that is
what defines the dance. May be Argentine Tango and Neo Tango do belong
to
different clusters? The same way as American and International Tango
belong
to the Ballroom cluster of dances? It is way too early to judge it.
Will see
in 20-30 years.
Igor Polk
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:51:48 -0700
From: Daniel Lapadula <clubstyletango@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Re: [TANGO-L] WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO"
--0-426959059-1125435108=:20416
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Note: forwarded message attached.
Daniel Lapadula
ClubStyleTango@yahoo.com
www.tangoestilodelcentro.com
--0-426959059-1125435108=:20416
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Length: 2574
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
From my point of view,it will die as fast as Lambada did.
We refused sometimes generic medicine as we refused that cheap generic and hibrid way to dance alternative music to a beatiful dance ,created with soul in the music that was made only and for it.It is called Argentine Tango no because it belongs to us but because it has a history that goes with it.Breaking the codes of its nature is like changing the anthom of a country.
That is my PERSONAL opinion maybe non related with the truth.
Daniel
Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM> wrote:
>Igor Polk wrote:
>>I remember in old days at that time the Beat was packed
>>with the best San Francisco dancers. Not any more.
>
>Are you saying that nuevo (neo) tango has become old???
No. I wanted to say that couple of years ago the Beat was still a focal
point of normal tango - close and open.
Unfortunately the article ( put in the central position of the first page of
the WSJ ! ) gives the green light, important endorsement to neo tango
promoters like Homer, but totally ignoring Masters like Julio Balmecida and
Corina de La Rosa.
The tone of the article is somewhat unfair to the Argentine Tango. Well, I
guess that is the point of view of the Wall Street..
It is not a big deal. I believe that tango is on its way and developing very
fast. Neo Tango and Tango Nuevo are sort of the same. To me the difference
is that Tango Nuevo is danced with Pugliese Tango music, while Neo Tango is
danced with some modern concoctions. ("Modern" does not mean "better"
here ). This music is also can be very good for tango. It is mostly a matter
of DJ skill, then the modernism itself.
Everything become fine, and all contradictions are eliminated if you think
about Nuevo or Neo as yet another tango dance. We have milonga, vals, tango
of 20s, salon tango of 50s, apilado, canyengue ( cayengue? ) all that should
be danced differently. We even have salsa! And there is no problem about it.
Those who do not dance salsa sit. If Gotan(just an example) music is
played - everybody should dance Neo. If Lomuto ( wonderful music of 20s, by
the way) is played - every body should dance Liso. This is it. Ballroom
dancers do not dance Pasodoble with Foxtrot music. We are still babies at
this. When all of us will know MANY tango dances - there will be no problems
at all.
Of course those who dance salsa go to salsa clubs. It looks like despite
their obvious similarity Neo Tango and Argentine Tango are best when they
are danced on different floors. They do not coexist together well on the
same floor, as well as salsa can be played at tango parties only as an
intermission.
This is not surprising, since the driving force of a dance is music. Play
different music, and you will get different dance. Even with the same steps.
Emotions, the whole atmosphere is changing, some very subtle ways of
performing the moves keeping accordance with the music feel. And that is
what defines the dance. May be Argentine Tango and Neo Tango do belong to
different clusters? The same way as American and International Tango belong
to the Ballroom cluster of dances? It is way too early to judge it. Will see
in 20-30 years.
Igor Polk
Daniel Lapadula
ClubStyleTango@yahoo.com
www.tangoestilodelcentro.com
--0-426959059-1125435108=:20416--
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 3:16 PM
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO"
Dear Igor,
I find this article positive, even though it is definitely not what most
purist want to hear.
There is a certain group of people who would never learn tango if it was
danced to traditional music, in the traditional ways. They would probably go
and learn salsa or swing. The new quasi-tango genre (call it the way you
want) is bringing some of these people in to learn something which is -
essentially - a form of tango, using very similar technique even though a
very different style.
Just think about it: if you feed Cals to people who grew up on pop music,
most of them will run away. If you give them Gotan Project, they might get
interested. If you give them their favourite hit, they might even start
dancing right there. Maybe it takes them several years and maybe they never
get to be a purist, but they will start to listen to old tango as well with
time. As for the style: they will also get old, when they won't have the
energy or the need to be hot and fast. But I think if they spend enough time
with this dance, they'll learn to dance simple steps in close embrace at
some point.
> This is not surprising, since the driving force of a dance is
> music. Play different music, and you will get different
> dance. Even with the same steps.
> Emotions, the whole atmosphere is changing, some very subtle
> ways of performing the moves keeping accordance with the
> music feel. And that is what defines the dance. May be
> Argentine Tango and Neo Tango do belong to different
> clusters? The same way as American and International Tango
> belong to the Ballroom cluster of dances? It is way too early
> to judge it. Will see in 20-30 years.
I think the major difference is that neotango (quasi-tango) borrowed the
technique from tango to express the feelings of the music it is danced to.
The dance is still tango, but when you perform it to non-tango music, it
becomes a generic walk-based couple-dance to X music. Tango has a great
potential to be a generic couple-dance. The "swango, salsango" hybrids are
actually a sign of the dance already mixing with others to increase (and
change) the vocabulary of the original tango dance. However, the word
"tango" is only a label if you don't dance the steps to tango music.
IMO Argentine tango in the form purist want to see it, is a sort of dead
end: in has no continuation other than the jazzy nuevo of Piazzolla and the
electronic music of neotango in the present. Everything else is just a copy
of a music form that fell out of mainstream ages ago (which is a pity, but
this is the case: the world does not listen to acoustic tango anymore - the
new orchestras are just holding up tradition). As for the dance, partner
dances in general fell out of mainstream decades ago. Recently salsa (and in
some places - like the US or Sweden - swing) presented a possibility to get
a splinter of its former popularity back...so in my view, any idea, no
matter how ridiculous, that is able to promote partner dancing is a good
one.
As for the style of the article (taking sides stuff included): it is using a
simple and effective trick. Such an article will create a trendy image of
the 'new' genre in the heads of people that are not interested in the old
tango stuff: that neotango is something new and radical and hot and exciting
and free versus the old, dusty form for the guys in tuxedo...on the other
hand those interested in the traditional version will see this new form a
bastard and will even feel more pushed to go for the real thing (a new form
of something always gives a higher value for the old one in the eyes of
people who like tradition). The end result is the same: more people come to
dance tango. Period.
Aron
Ecsedy Aron
***********
Aron ECSEDY
Tel: +36 (20) 329 66 99
ICQ# 46386265
https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/
* * * * *
https://www.milonga.hu/
"Follow those who seek the truth.
Run from those who claim to have found it."
"There is more than one way to cook an omlette."
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:53:52 -0700
From: Daniel Lapadula <clubstyletango@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Re: [TANGO-L] WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO"
Daniel Lapadula <clubstyletango@yahoo.com> wrote:Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 13:12:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Daniel Lapadula <clubstyletango@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO"
To: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
From my point of view,it will die as fast as Lambada did.
We refused sometimes generic medicine as we refused that cheap generic and hibrid way to dance alternative music to a beatiful dance ,created with soul in the music that was made only and for it.It is called Argentine Tango no because it belongs to us but because it has a history that goes with it.Breaking the codes of its nature is like changing the anthom of a country.
That is my PERSONAL opinion maybe non related with the truth.
Daniel
Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM> wrote:
>Igor Polk wrote:
>>I remember in old days at that time the Beat was packed
>>with the best San Francisco dancers. Not any more.
>
>Are you saying that nuevo (neo) tango has become old???
No. I wanted to say that couple of years ago the Beat was still a focal
point of normal tango - close and open.
Unfortunately the article ( put in the central position of the first page of
the WSJ ! ) gives the green light, important endorsement to neo tango
promoters like Homer, but totally ignoring Masters like Julio Balmecida and
Corina de La Rosa.
The tone of the article is somewhat unfair to the Argentine Tango. Well, I
guess that is the point of view of the Wall Street..
It is not a big deal. I believe that tango is on its way and developing very
fast. Neo Tango and Tango Nuevo are sort of the same. To me the difference
is that Tango Nuevo is danced with Pugliese Tango music, while Neo Tango is
danced with some modern concoctions. ("Modern" does not mean "better"
here ). This music is also can be very good for tango. It is mostly a matter
of DJ skill, then the modernism itself.
Everything become fine, and all contradictions are eliminated if you think
about Nuevo or Neo as yet another tango dance. We have milonga, vals, tango
of 20s, salon tango of 50s, apilado, canyengue ( cayengue? ) all that should
be danced differently. We even have salsa! And there is no problem about it.
Those who do not dance salsa sit. If Gotan(just an example) music is
played - everybody should dance Neo. If Lomuto ( wonderful music of 20s, by
the way) is played - every body should dance Liso. This is it. Ballroom
dancers do not dance Pasodoble with Foxtrot music. We are still babies at
this. When all of us will know MANY tango dances - there will be no problems
at all.
Of course those who dance salsa go to salsa clubs. It looks like despite
their obvious similarity Neo Tango and Argentine Tango are best when they
are danced on different floors. They do not coexist together well on the
same floor, as well as salsa can be played at tango parties only as an
intermission.
This is not surprising, since the driving force of a dance is music. Play
different music, and you will get different dance. Even with the same steps.
Emotions, the whole atmosphere is changing, some very subtle ways of
performing the moves keeping accordance with the music feel. And that is
what defines the dance. May be Argentine Tango and Neo Tango do belong to
different clusters? The same way as American and International Tango belong
to the Ballroom cluster of dances? It is way too early to judge it. Will see
in 20-30 years.
Igor Polk
Daniel Lapadula
ClubStyleTango@yahoo.com
www.tangoestilodelcentro.com
Daniel Lapadula
ClubStyleTango@yahoo.com
www.tangoestilodelcentro.com
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 16:56:00 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO
Rich De Sousa wrote:
>[T]he article ... never received an okay from Homer.
>I spoke with him last night at the Beat and he wasn't happy with the
>writer and what she published on the WSJ. In fact he was upset since
>she picked the worst of what he said to her rather than write a balance
>report.
My sympathies are with Homer. His experience is similar to how the
reporter dealt with my comments. I spent an hour talking to her about the
evolution of tango music including the emergence of neo-tango music; the
history of tango in the United States; how I had met Homer at one of the
Santa Fe tango weeks when he was honing his "more traditional" tango
skills; how arts change; how nuevo tango was originally conceived as an
approach to understanding and learning tango developed by Gustavo Naveira,
Fabian Salas and other Argentines; how it was a shock when nuevo emerged
as a style; and as dancers mastered tango through an individual pedagogic
appproach. Out of all that she chose to publish my comment that nuevo
dancers were (initially) viewed as "nuevo brats" because they had caused
collisions on the floor with their flashy and sometimes haphazard moves.
She conveniently ignored my next comment that nuevo dancing was now widely
accepted as a legitmate approach to tango in the United States, and only
time would tell if it would survive as a style.
With best regards,
Steve
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 18:08:30 -0400
From: Richard deSousa <mallpasso@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO
It appears the moral of the story is never speak to a reporter (or
chose your words carefully) since they will invariably sensationalize
their article.
Furthermore, the corollary is never to believe what you read in the
papers, see on TV, or hear on the radio!!!
Rich
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 16:56:00 -0500
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO
Rich De Sousa wrote:
>[T]he article ... never received an okay from Homer.
>I spoke with him last night at the Beat and he wasn't happy with the
>writer and what she published on the WSJ. In fact he was upset since
>she picked the worst of what he said to her rather than write a balance
>report.
My sympathies are with Homer. His experience is similar to how the
reporter dealt with my comments. I spent an hour talking to her about
the
evolution of tango music including the emergence of neo-tango music; the
history of tango in the United States; how I had met Homer at one of the
Santa Fe tango weeks when he was honing his "more traditional" tango
skills; how arts change; how nuevo tango was originally conceived as an
approach to understanding and learning tango developed by Gustavo
Naveira,
Fabian Salas and other Argentines; how it was a shock when nuevo
emerged
as a style; and as dancers mastered tango through an individual
pedagogic
appproach. Out of all that she chose to publish my comment that nuevo
dancers were (initially) viewed as "nuevo brats" because they had
caused
collisions on the floor with their flashy and sometimes haphazard moves.
She conveniently ignored my next comment that nuevo dancing was now
widely
accepted as a legitmate approach to tango in the United States, and only
time would tell if it would survive as a style.
With best regards,
Steve
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:19:53 -0600
From: Chas Gale <hotchango@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO
A bit cynical I think, no? I didn't much care for being pigeon-holed as
an aging die hard of a bygone era either, but ultimately the article is
good for tango and good for Homer.
In the past year 2 articles have been published (4 actually but I was
not interviewed for 2 of them) on me and The Tango House. Both were true
to what I said. I was not misquoted nor were they sensationalized. One
was written by one of our local dancers (Anthony Rodriguez) so it was no
surprise that it was accurate. The other was written by a woman who has
no experience or interest in tango, so perhaps the 4th estate can
occasionally be trusted after all.
There is a fifth piece in the works as I type for which I have been
interviewed. We'll see how it goes...
Chas "Not pissing off people who buy their ink in barrels." Gale
https://www.thetangohouse.com
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 4:09 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO
It appears the moral of the story is never speak to a reporter (or chose
your words carefully) since they will invariably sensationalize their
article.
Furthermore, the corollary is never to believe what you read in the
papers, see on TV, or hear on the radio!!!
Rich
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 16:56:00 -0500
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO
Rich De Sousa wrote:
>[T]he article ... never received an okay from Homer.
>I spoke with him last night at the Beat and he wasn't happy with the
>writer and what she published on the WSJ. In fact he was upset since
>she picked the worst of what he said to her rather than write a balance
>report.
My sympathies are with Homer. His experience is similar to how the
reporter dealt with my comments. I spent an hour talking to her about
the evolution of tango music including the emergence of neo-tango music;
the history of tango in the United States; how I had met Homer at one of
the Santa Fe tango weeks when he was honing his "more traditional" tango
skills; how arts change; how nuevo tango was originally conceived as an
approach to understanding and learning tango developed by Gustavo
Naveira,
Fabian Salas and other Argentines; how it was a shock when nuevo
emerged as a style; and as dancers mastered tango through an individual
pedagogic appproach. Out of all that she chose to publish my comment
that nuevo dancers were (initially) viewed as "nuevo brats" because they
had caused collisions on the floor with their flashy and sometimes
haphazard moves. She conveniently ignored my next comment that nuevo
dancing was now widely accepted as a legitmate approach to tango in the
United States, and only time would tell if it would survive as a style.
With best regards,
Steve
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 19:30:34 -0400
From: Richard deSousa <mallpasso@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO
No, I'm not cynical... just a realist with the knowledge that "yellow"
journalism has a long history of sensationalizing news articles.
As to it being good for tango and Homer, the former may be true, but
you couldn't get him to agree with your assessment of
"...good for Homer." Last night he was pissed off at the reporter whom
he trusted when she interviewed him.
Rich
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 17:19:53 -0600
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO
A bit cynical I think, no? I didn't much care for being pigeon-holed
as
an aging die hard of a bygone era either, but ultimately the article is
good for tango and good for Homer.
In the past year 2 articles have been published (4 actually but I was
not interviewed for 2 of them) on me and The Tango House. Both were true
to what I said. I was not misquoted nor were they sensationalized. One
was written by one of our local dancers (Anthony Rodriguez) so it was no
surprise that it was accurate. The other was written by a woman who has
no experience or interest in tango, so perhaps the 4th estate can
occasionally be trusted after all.
There is a fifth piece in the works as I type for which I have been
interviewed. We'll see how it goes...
Chas "Not pissing off people who buy their ink in barrels." Gale
https://www.thetangohouse.com
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 4:09 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO
It appears the moral of the story is never speak to a reporter (or chose
your words carefully) since they will invariably sensationalize their
article.
Furthermore, the corollary is never to believe what you read in the
papers, see on TV, or hear on the radio!!!
Rich
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 16:56:00 -0500
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] WSJ ARTICLE "NEOTANGO
Rich De Sousa wrote:
>[T]he article ... never received an okay from Homer.
>I spoke with him last night at the Beat and he wasn't happy with the
>writer and what she published on the WSJ. In fact he was upset since
>she picked the worst of what he said to her rather than write a balance
>report.
My sympathies are with Homer. His experience is similar to how the
reporter dealt with my comments. I spent an hour talking to her about
the evolution of tango music including the emergence of neo-tango music;
the history of tango in the United States; how I had met Homer at one of
the Santa Fe tango weeks when he was honing his "more traditional" tango
skills; how arts change; how nuevo tango was originally conceived as an
approach to understanding and learning tango developed by Gustavo
Naveira,
Fabian Salas and other Argentines; how it was a shock when nuevo
emerged as a style; and as dancers mastered tango through an individual
pedagogic appproach. Out of all that she chose to publish my comment
that nuevo dancers were (initially) viewed as "nuevo brats" because they
had caused collisions on the floor with their flashy and sometimes
haphazard moves. She conveniently ignored my next comment that nuevo
dancing was now widely accepted as a legitmate approach to tango in the
United States, and only time would tell if it would survive as a style.
With best regards,
Steve
