5119  YouTube and the right to privacy

Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 15:20:57 -0300
From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] YouTube and the right to privacy
To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>

Barbara Garvey wrote:
<I have a question about YouTube videos and copyright. Having read the
copyright notice on the YouTube website it seems that no tango videos could
legitimately be posted, since they all involve copyrighted music. So does
one just ignore that?>

You are one of very few who have even bothered to read the fine print
applying to YouTube.

<It seems to me that practice on YouTube is not consistent with the
guidelines -- any advice???>

You are correct in that the copyright laws are ignored. YouTube and
Goggle are merely releasing themselves from the possibility of litigation.
Everyone appearing on YouTube is supposed to give their consent, but how
many even know about it?

<Al and I have some great video footage of dancers not available elsewhere,
but of course it all involves music. Also, when a video is posted of a
couple dancing (in public, at a milonga or festival, for example) is their
permission obtained (always, sometimes, never?) We have clips of Lampazo and
Orlando Paiva, taken at our house, for example.>

Filming is so commonplace these days in BsAs milongas. People feel they
have the right to do it without asking permission. Rick McGarry has been
secretly filming in the milongas for years and now has selected footage of
dancers on his website www.tangoandchaos.org The dancers are unaware of
that fact because McGarry has never bothered to ask for their permission to
do so. This is obvious when he posts videos of nameless individuals.
Miguel Angel Balbi thought I was the only one to have footage of him until I
informed him last week that McGarry has footage of him on the internet.
Ruben Harymbat was unaware that there are videos of his dancing on YouTube
by tangospring until I informed him. They don't like it, but feel they
can't say or do anything about it.

<Is it okay to post a video taken at exhibitions at milongas? Is there a
time factor (10 years, 20, etc?). Some of our friends we know are/were very
sensitive to even showing their videos to strangers, so that we would
obviously honor.>

It is correct to ask the dancers involved on an individual basis. What
purpose does it serve? I have footage of milongueros which was taken with
their permission and my promise that it would never be copied, distributed,
or sold. The American attitude on YouTube shows disrespect toward those who
dance in Buenos Aires. Every video on YouTube can be copied without the
consent of the person(s) involved.

<We also have video of performances at Nora's TangoWeek --we could email the
couples in question for permission to post, but there remains the music.>

The milongas pay licensing fees to SADAIC for the right to play music.
It's impossible for them to track video production on the internet. The
copyrighted music is being used without permission.

Tete and Sylvia commented on this topic in their interview at
www.tangonoticias.com

Tete: Daniel Trenner was after me for five years to make the videos, but he
didn't give me anything to make them. He is a friend of mine, but at that
time, I was just dancing; I didn't want to teach classes. After awhile, I
agreed.
...
So does it bother you that a lot of foreigners are filming in the milongas?
Tete: If that was my whole living, I wouldn't like it. No, it doesn't
bother me.
Sylvia: It does bother me. It's an invasion of my privacy. There are
places where people say it's okay to film, but it's treating us like
animals, taking pictures of us all the time.

Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2007 14:33:04 -0700
From: "Igor Polk" <ipolk@virtuar.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] YouTube and the right to privacy

I am not a lawyer, I am a photographer. I am making documentary photography.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about copyright laws.

And yes, Janis, your opinion is wrong !

That is the photographer who has copyright on the photos by definition, not
the person he is filming.

Everyone has the right to take pictures and videos everywhere they want (
that includes milongas and private residences including your own) and
publish it without consent of any kind !
It is obvious for the sake of education and news. If they publish for profit
( very specifically tailored to the person filmed ) they should share the
profit. Photographers can be sued if the publication makes harm for the
person, but only in the case "it is not newsworthy". It means any person
which is of interest to the public ( and I am sure that includes Milongueros
) will lose the case !

So far the law was mostly on the side of photographers. ( I put "mostly",
but I do not know about any "against" case. ) I guess, because it is a "free
speech" issue.

Nobody can prohibit videos taken in any place from publication. There is one
restriction when the photographer enters the place and pays for ticket and
therefore entering the written agreement explicitly prohibiting taking
pictures and publication of the pictures taken. The owner ( not you, Janis !
) and his official representatives can only ask the person taking pictures
to leave the place, and if refused to remove him by force of police, but
they can not prohibit publication or other use of pictures already taken (
if there was no that written rule. ). That is in America, Argentina might
have their own rules on that. But I believe they are the same.

Take picture and videos as much as you want ! As much as you can !!!

This is the great way to save for history the art of dance, otherwise it
would burden under the stupid legal and ownership issues.

Of course, it is always a good idea to ask the permission, mostly for the
sake of making it better. For consideration of other people needs and
opinions. Of course, a photographer should especially respect an opinion of
the dancers they film: may be they are not in a good shape or something..
But that is a personal issue. Not legal. Sometimes I do not like the videos
of myself to be taken, sometimes I'd like it.

Photographers should be conscious about good quality of videos, because they
must understand that they participate in creation of an image of the dancers
they film. And with bad quality recordings they can make this image worse.
Nowadays, with digital videos and cameras everyone think he is a
photographer or a film maker. Which is of course, wrong. The only way to
fight with bad film-makers - to publish your own, official, better version
of your dancing or an event. This is very serious. Organizers should take
care of creating and preserving good image of their dancers and events.

And that is my advice to your, Janis ! It looks like you have some influence
there. Talk to your Milongueros. Make the good videos and publish them
Copyright free. You are going to make a good thing for humanity and to your
friends ! Nobody ever would be interested in paying money for your old
milongueros ! Forget about it ! And if somebody really would do it, they
would do it only after reviewing those free videos, accessing their value by
how much they are popular, how much people talk about them, how many links
do they have. Consider it as an advertisement, as a portfolio of your
friends. In any way, I am 100% sure, the videos you take personally would
not attract any attention of a publication house. If they would want to film
them for commercial purpose, they will make their own professional
recording.

Janis, Barbara's main concern was about music, not videos.
About videos taken in public places, do not worry Barbara ! It is not of
your concern ! Copyright violation is the concern of organizers of the dance
and dancers themselves. You merely recorded the event. It is a different
thing when it is your own production. A professional should help you in this
case.


Igor Polk