6266  dark milongas

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Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:52:13 -0500
From: Ilene Marder <imhmedia@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] dark milongas
To: Tango Mail <tango@springssauna.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu

I agree re: many milongas in US being too dark.

You can't do cabeceo and you can't see the details of the dance.
The tradition of tango carries with it the notion that you learn by watching the dancers at the milonga.
I don't think that is outdated or "old school" in any way...it helps us all.

How is it in Europe... ??? or is this just an American thing...?

I don't like super bright light, but you should be able to see across the room to make eye contact for a dance...otherwise the only way you can get dances is by asking (which I think makes it more difficult for everyone, as most dancers are particular with whom they dance....).
Again, these kinds of codes were developed for a reason -- a HUMAN reason, that goes beyond time and cultural boundaries.

With a little work, you can have good lighting with a warm glow that goes with the mood.
Can an organizer who likes it dark, explain why they prefer it that way?
thanks,
I.

Tango Mail wrote:
....One can hardly make out who is sitting on the other side of the room.

Question: WHY are the milongas in the US kept so friggin' dark,
anyway? Isn't the motion and the dance itself 'romantic' enough?
I don't understand why one needs to have a flashlight with them to the
milongas.. and this is happening from coast-to-coast in the US.,
even during festivals when one would like to take video and photos, but
alas, can not.

Ta.




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Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:51:32 -0500
From: Steve Littler <sl@stevelittler.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] dark milongas
To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu>

Excellent question Ilene! And why don't they segregate the men and women
so you can look across at them in the eye?

When I first got started in this dance I read up on all the customs and
my Argentinian instructor talked about the codes in B.A., but nobody
here was doing them. I remember trying to cabaceo and getting no
attention at all. No one else was doing it either. If you wanted to
dance you had to walk over and maybe get a dance or not. Sometimes that
was daunting, especially when I was new. Fortunately most of the ladies
were very encouraging.

Last month I was at a nice dark milonga in Tampa and entertaining some
friends new to Tango and only danced about half the night. When I was
leaving at the very end I saw one of the better dancers also leaving and
went to say hello to her and she was mad at me and said "Why didn't you
ask me to dance tonight?" I had to apologize I honestly hadn't seen her.

So this month I had to go hunt her down and remedy with several tandas
throughout the night. (Not really complaining because she is a great
dancer and very sweet.)

It's also hard sometimes because laides do want to dance with you but
have already promised the next tanda to someone else. So you have to
look around and find someone else or wait till next time. Of course
everyone sees this. Well, I must say it has toughened up my skin for
rejections and I dance well enough now that the better dancers are
usually very happy to dance with me. But it is aggravating to walk all
the way across the floor for nothing when there is a particular dancer
you admire and a great tanda begins to play.

Another part of this lack of cabaceo is that I have to be very skilled
in politely interrupting conversations to ask for a dance without
appearing rude. Ok. I can do that. But you have to have social skills
and be very willing to experience that kind of thing and most guys
probably aren't in the beginning when you are not a very good dancer yet
(or ever).

Also, I think some women can't say "No" to a dance and some guys who
have been dancing badly for years and don't take lessons to improve, get
away with murder, causing collisions, stepping on feet, throwing ganchos
on beginners, etc. (I say that with some risk because the ladies were
very encouraging to me when I was starting. But I also don't dance over
partner's heads, cause collisions or try steps I haven't already
mastered at practica yet in a milonga.)

Steve in Florida

Ilene Marder wrote:

> I agree re: many milongas in US being too dark.
>
> You can't do cabeceo and you can't see the details of the dance.
> The tradition of tango carries with it the notion that you learn by watching the dancers at the milonga.
> I don't think that is outdated or "old school" in any way...it helps us all.
>
> How is it in Europe... ??? or is this just an American thing...?
>
> I don't like super bright light, but you should be able to see across the room to make eye contact for a dance...otherwise the only way you can get dances is by asking (which I think makes it more difficult for everyone, as most dancers are particular with whom they dance....).
> Again, these kinds of codes were developed for a reason -- a HUMAN reason, that goes beyond time and cultural boundaries.
>
> With a little work, you can have good lighting with a warm glow that goes with the mood.
> Can an organizer who likes it dark, explain why they prefer it that way?
> thanks,
> I.
>
> Tango Mail wrote:
> ....One can hardly make out who is sitting on the other side of the room.
>
> Question: WHY are the milongas in the US kept so friggin' dark,
> anyway? Isn't the motion and the dance itself 'romantic' enough?
> I don't understand why one needs to have a flashlight with them to the
> milongas.. and this is happening from coast-to-coast in the US.,
> even during festivals when one would like to take video and photos, but
> alas, can not.
>
> Ta.
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>
>






Date: Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:59:46 -0500
From: "Michael" <tangomaniac@cavtel.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] dark milongas
To: "Steve Littler" <sl@stevelittler.com>, "Tango-L List"
<tango-l@mit.edu>, "Michael" <tangomaniac@cavtel.net>

I think the dark milongas comes from ballroom where ambiance is so
important. I don't like dark ballrooms nor milongas. I used cabeceo a lot
the first year I went to the Atlanta tango festival. It didn't work because
it was too dark so I didn't dance a lot. The following year the organizers
had a session on milonga etiquette where cabeceo was discussed. A lot of the
women just looked forward into the dance floor and not around when not
dancing. Nevermind the custom, I had to get into their range of vision
otherwise I wasn't going to dance. As flight attendants say before take off
"The closest exit may be behind you." The same thing applies to milongas.
The closest partner may be behind you but few look.

For cabeceo to work, milongas have to be well lite and has to be practiced
by 80% of the attendees or it doesn't work. I'll start using cabeceo as
Plan A. If it doesn't work because of insufficient light or the women aren't
using it, I'll go to Plan B (the ballroom "direct" approach). Plan C is to
bring a flare gun.

The bottom line is "it takes two to tango." Asking for and accepting a tanda
is only going to work with active effort on both genders. I don't like
interrupting a conversation for a dance. Maybe the women would rather talk
than dance.

4 weeks to the Atlanta Tango Festival and two weeks after that to BA (where
I have to use cabeceo) and the milongas are fully illuminated, I've been
told.

Michael
Washington, DC

----- Original Message -----



From: "Steve Littler" <sl@stevelittler.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] dark milongas


> Excellent question Ilene! And why don't they segregate the men and women
> so you can look across at them in the eye?
>
>
> Another part of this lack of cabaceo is that I have to be very skilled

in politely interrupting conversations to ask for a dance without
appearing rude.

>
> Also, I think some women can't say "No" to a dance and some guys who
> have been dancing badly for years and don't take lessons to improve, get
> away with murder, causing collisions, stepping on feet, throwing ganchos
> on beginners, etc.




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