Alternative music


1013 Alternative music	ARTICLE INDEX
Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 00:05:46 -0800 From: luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM> Subject: Alternative music Rick, you asked for suggestions about interesting alternative music suitable for dancing tango. I recently discovered a beautiful Greek singer by the name of Haris Alexiou who sings a tango called "To tango tis nefelis". Don't even know what the title means. Yet. Except for the "tango" part. :) Have to find a Greek friend to translate. Or is there someone on the List who is Greek? I Don't speak a word of Greek, but the entire album is absolutely gorgeous! She also reminds me a lot of Mercedes Simone, whom I love. As everybody already knows. :) Luda Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:55:49 -0700 From: Russell Bauer <raulman@COMCAST.NET> Subject: Alternative Music to Tango to Hi all, Besides Gotan Project and Alexiou Haris' (Haris Alexiou's?) version of Loreena McKennitt's Tango to Evora, I would like to know some of your preferences of alternative music to tango to. Russell Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 20:02:35 +0000 From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Alternative Music to Tango to Sharna Fabiano keeps an extensive list of alternative tangos at: https://www.neotango.com/neotangos.html Also from TangoSpring.com, which happens to be my website: Tango can be danced to many non-tango songs. The song should have smooth walking beat and numerous double-time beats. Mood is also important - the melody should compel you to dance tango. Here are some of my favorites (+ means there are more alt. tangoes by the same artist): Vaya Con Dios - I don't want to know Edith Piaf - Levieux piano + Eliades Ochoa - Siboney Nina Simone - Keeper of the flame + Neneh Cherry - Woman + Macy Gray - I try Diana Krall - Cry me a river + Cirque du Soleil - Innocence + Leonard Cohen - Dance me to the end of love Bau - Bia + Cheers, Oleh K. https://tangospring.com >From: Russell Bauer <raulman@COMCAST.NET> >Reply-To: Russell Bauer <raulman@COMCAST.NET> >To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU >Subject: [TANGO-L] Alternative Music to Tango to >Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:55:49 -0700 > >Hi all, > >Besides Gotan Project and Alexiou Haris' (Haris Alexiou's?) version of >Loreena >McKennitt's Tango to Evora, I would like to know some of your preferences >of >alternative music to tango to. > >Russell Get a FREE online virus check for your PC here, from McAfee. Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 13:26:02 -0800 From: Rick FromPortland <pruneshrub04@YAHOO.COM> Subject: Re: Alternative Music to Tango to Russell, There's also a bunch of info on the Tango-L archives. Search for "non-tango" or "alternative tango" or permutations of that at: https://pythia.uoregon.edu/~llynch/Tango-L/2001/ https://pythia.uoregon.edu/~llynch/Tango-L/2003/index.html Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 14:37:20 -0700 From: Brian Dunn <brian@DANCEOFTHEHEART.COM> Subject: Re: Alternative Music to Tango to Russell wrote: >Besides Gotan Project and Alexiou Haris' (Haris Alexiou's?) version of >Loreena >McKennitt's Tango to Evora, I would like to know some of your preferences >of >alternative music to tango to. Oleh replied: >>> The song should have smooth walking beat and numerous double-time beats. <<< I agree with Oleh that songs with emotional content fitting this structural description would be good candidates for alternative tango music - traditionally speaking, it's an apt description for a lot of Di Sarli. I note that since there's such a wide variety of styles of traditional tango music, it stands to reason that there are also "Troilo-like", "Pugliese-like", etc. songs which will appeal to those who like dancing to these orchestras even in the absence of the walking beat. Daniel Trenner introduced us to Bob Telson's "Gonzalo's Dream" from the CD "Calling You" in 1997, and the late Eva Cassidy's "Wade in the Water" in 1999. These have been favorites for a long time. "Wade in the Water" also works very well in starting off beginner classes, while Bob Telson's number is for more sophisticated dancers (more rhythmically sophisticated, it has an absolutely dynamite opening jazz bass line). I note that, out of dozens of alternative tango songs we've played over the years at our milonga, the only one whose introduction generated actual applause and cheers after the song from a knowledgeable tango dancing crowd was played last week, from the Norwegian tango band "Tango for 3" from their album "Soledad". Entitled "Grieg + Tango = Gringo, #1", it is a clear adaptation of "In the Hall of the Mountain King" (from Norwegian composer Edvard Grieg's incidental music for "Peer Gynt") set to a stirringly powerful Pugliese-like tango orchestration/arrangement, with hints of Piazzolla. Highly recommended (and thanks to Neil Other for the tip)! All the best, Brian Dunn Dance of the Heart Boulder, Colorado USA 1(303)938-0716 https://www.danceoftheheart.com Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 19:59:45 -0500 From: Clint Rauscher <clint@AXIALPARTNERS.COM> Subject: Re: Alternative Music to Tango to Russell, You may also want to check out Narcotango by Carlos Libedinsky if you like Gotan Project. I don't think it is as good as Gotan Project but it is more easily danced to. As far as non-tango music goes, I find that lots of blues and jazz music will work: Fever - Peggy Lee Stormy Monday Blues - Bobby "Blue" Bland Clint > -----Original Message----- > From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango > [mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Russell Bauer > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 12:56 PM > To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: [TANGO-L] Alternative Music to Tango to > > > Hi all, > > Besides Gotan Project and Alexiou Haris' (Haris Alexiou's?) > version of Loreena > McKennitt's Tango to Evora, I would like to know some of your > preferences of > alternative music to tango to. > > Russell > --- > [This E-mail scanned for viruses] > > --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses] Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 19:19:01 -0800 From: David Hodgson <DHodgson@TANGO777.COM> Subject: Re: Alternative Music to Tango to Depeche Mode - Home Rob D - Clubbed to Dead (Kurayamino Mix) Siouxsie & The Banshees - Cities on dust David~ https://tangospring.com >From: Russell Bauer <raulman@COMCAST.NET> >Reply-To: Russell Bauer <raulman@COMCAST.NET> >To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU >Subject: [TANGO-L] Alternative Music to Tango to >Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 10:55:49 -0700 > >Hi all, > >Besides Gotan Project and Alexiou Haris' (Haris Alexiou's?) version of >Loreena >McKennitt's Tango to Evora, I would like to know some of your preferences >of >alternative music to tango to. > >Russell Get a FREE online virus check for your PC here, from McAfee. Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Alternative Music to Tango to > Russell, > There's also a bunch of info on the Tango-L archives. > Search for "non-tango" or "alternative tango" or permutations of that at: > > https://pythia.uoregon.edu/~llynch/Tango-L/2001/ > https://pythia.uoregon.edu/~llynch/Tango-L/2003/index.html https://www.argentine-tango.com Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:09:14 +0100 From: Britta Korth <britta@HOW2TANGO.ORG> Subject: Re: Alternative Music to Tango to Have you ever danced to Firewater's "another perfect catastrophe" or "when I burn this place down". I enjoy dancing to the first in particular. Britta >Hi all, > >Besides Gotan Project and Alexiou Haris' (Haris Alexiou's?) version of >Loreena >McKennitt's Tango to Evora, I would like to know some of your preferences >of >alternative music to tango to. > >Russell Get a FREE online virus check for your PC here, from McAfee. Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:13:40 -0400 From: jackie ling wong <jackie.wong@VERIZON.NET> Subject: alternative music update greetings.. i just posted an update to my alternative music list which provides a 60 second sample of each selection...i would love to have feedback on the various artists... https://www.tangopulse.net/dj_jackie_wong__argentine_tango.htm thank you jackie www.tangopulse.net <https://www.tangopulse.net> Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:02:13 -0500 From: David Allen <dsaj@MINDSPRING.COM> Subject: Alternative music Alberto wrote: "Have you ever wondered what to do with those folks who come to a tango dance party clueless and oblivious to what everyone else is going through. You've seen them, they salsa a milonga, they merengue a good tango and some even hip hop a good vals. Well, an entrepreneurial person in Arizona has come up with an alternative. They have come up with an idea they think will be different and fun. They plan to rent a third room at a studio and play nuevo and alternative tango music in it. They'll load the speakers with Bajofondo Tango Club, Narcotango, Tanghetto as well as a little other nuevo music plus some other cds of music which can clearly be used to let them fools think they are dancing tango so they can charge them the customary admission the tango dancers pay." I smiled when I thougth of your shared idea. I do agree and here's why. There are only a few DJ's that I have heard that can play "alternative" = music that you can actually dance to. The two that come to mind are Alex Krebs and Robin Thomas. They will play it sparingly and what they = play is very danceable. In a night of tango music maybe 3% will be alternative. For me and many, many I know that is plenty. Why people = want alternative at a Tango dance I am not sure. Here is why I don't. When danceable alternative music is played I can "dance" it, however, I can't "Tango" it. Alternative music does not and cannot evoke in me the = same emotions, feelings, inspiration, etc that Calo, Pugliese, Biagi, D'Augostino, D'Arienzo, a De Angelis waltz, etc can. I tango because of = what it evokes in me. I tango because of how I can connect in such an intimate way with my partner of approximately 3 minutes. I tango = because I am enamoured of sharing my inner being with another who shares their inner being back with me. I tango because of the way the two of = us communicate in a telepathic way what we feel and want in that tango. I tango because there becomes nothing else in the world that matters = except that person in my embrace. If you ever truly listened to the music that a Robert Hauk, a Dan Bocca, a Manuel Patino, etc plays for = milongas, how could you really want to dance tango to Elvis, Alicia Keys, Ray Charles, etc. If you ever tango with someone like Alicia Pons (like dancing with liquid lava), Barbara Durr, Ann Leva, Lois Donnay to a Pugliese, Calo, = De Angelis waltz, my God how could you want anything other than the real thing. [Thank you to all the wonderful tangueras I have shared such = wonderful dances with. This post doesn't have the room to name you all.] Sorry Alicia Keys dosen't come close to cutting it. If you have = been to milongas in Buenos Aires you will know. They have booed DJ's who aren't playing good danceable music and if they didn't change the = music escort them out the door. Am I saying there should not be some alternative music. No. My preference would be none. What I don't want is a four hour milonga with = 2 hours of alternative. What I do want is if it is played at a milonga is that it be minimal and danceable. I fell in love with tango because = of tango music and the magic it evokes in me and others. I now have this urgent need to go dance tango. Words are inadequate, the dance, more than adequate. Yummy. Bravisimo Alberto!! My humble opinion and thoughts, David Allen Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:57:58 +0000 From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Alternative music Hear, hear. As my music collection expands I am moving away from dancing to alternative music myself - there is really no need anymore, too many great tangos would be left undanced. Tango is quite an incestuous scene - we have danced with the same people, except I have not danced with Lois Donnay yet. That might be corrected next week though - I also travel to BsAs next week. Cheers, Oleh K. https://TangoSpring.com >From: David Allen <dsaj@MINDSPRING.COM> >Reply-To: David Allen <dsaj@mindspring.com> >To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU >Subject: [TANGO-L] Alternative music >Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:02:13 -0500 > >Alberto wrote: > >"Have you ever wondered what to do with those folks who come to a tango > dance party clueless and oblivious to what everyone else is going > through. You've seen them, they salsa a milonga, they merengue a good >tango and some even hip hop a good vals. > > Well, an entrepreneurial person in Arizona has come up with an > alternative. They have come up with an idea they think will be > different and fun. They plan to rent a third room at a studio and play > nuevo and alternative tango music in it. They'll load the speakers with > Bajofondo Tango Club, Narcotango, Tanghetto as well as a little other > nuevo music plus some other cds of music which can clearly be used to > let them fools think they are dancing tango so they can charge them the > customary admission the tango dancers pay." > >I smiled when I thougth of your shared idea. I do agree and here's why. >There are only a few DJ's that I have heard that can play "alternative" >music that you can actually dance to. The two that come to mind are Alex >Krebs and Robin Thomas. They will play it sparingly and what they play is >very danceable. In a night of tango music maybe 3% will be alternative. >For me and many, many I know that is plenty. Why people want alternative >at a Tango dance I am not sure. Here is why I don't. > >When danceable alternative music is played I can "dance" it, however, I >can't "Tango" it. Alternative music does not and cannot evoke in me the >same emotions, feelings, inspiration, etc that Calo, Pugliese, Biagi, >D'Augostino, D'Arienzo, a De Angelis waltz, etc can. I tango because of >what it evokes in me. I tango because of how I can connect in such an >intimate way with my partner of approximately 3 minutes. I tango because I >am enamoured of sharing my inner being with another who shares their inner >being back with me. I tango because of the way the two of us communicate >in a telepathic way what we feel and want in that tango. I tango because >there becomes nothing else in the world that matters except that person in >my embrace. If you ever truly listened to the music that a Robert Hauk, a >Dan Bocca, a Manuel Patino, etc plays for milongas, how could you really >want to dance tango to Elvis, Alicia Keys, Ray Charles, etc. > >If you ever tango with someone like Alicia Pons (like dancing with liquid >lava), Barbara Durr, Ann Leva, Lois Donnay to a Pugliese, Calo, De Angelis >waltz, my God how could you want anything other than the real thing. >[Thank you to all the wonderful tangueras I have shared such wonderful >dances with. This post doesn't have the room to name you all.] Sorry >Alicia Keys dosen't come close to cutting it. If you have been to milongas >in Buenos Aires you will know. They have booed DJ's who aren't playing >good danceable music and if they didn't change the music escort them out >the door. > >Am I saying there should not be some alternative music. No. My preference >would be none. What I don't want is a four hour milonga with 2 hours of >alternative. What I do want is if it is played at a milonga is that it be >minimal and danceable. I fell in love with tango because of tango music >and the magic it evokes in me and others. > >I now have this urgent need to go dance tango. Words are inadequate, the >dance, more than adequate. Yummy. > >Bravisimo Alberto!! > >My humble opinion and thoughts, > >David Allen > Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 21:15:53 +0000 From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Alternative music Another good reason not to play an alternative music to dance tango is the difficulty of accomodating all diverse tastes of present dancers. Some inevitably will be left out. For instance I do not like Country music, Bajofondo or Libedinski all that much. I know at least one tango dancer who likes to dance milonga to a Country song. That's why I find Robin's talent for organically incorporating couple alternative songs into milonga just at the right moment so impressive. > >Hear, hear. As my music collection expands I am moving away from dancing to >alternative music myself - there is really no need anymore, too many great >tangos would be left undanced. > >Tango is quite an incestuous scene - we have danced with the same people, >except I have not danced with Lois Donnay yet. That might be corrected next >week though - I also travel to BsAs next week. > >Cheers, Oleh K. >https://TangoSpring.com > > > >>From: David Allen <dsaj@MINDSPRING.COM> >>Reply-To: David Allen <dsaj@mindspring.com> >>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU >>Subject: [TANGO-L] Alternative music >>Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:02:13 -0500 >> >>Alberto wrote: >> >>"Have you ever wondered what to do with those folks who come to a tango >> dance party clueless and oblivious to what everyone else is going >> through. You've seen them, they salsa a milonga, they merengue a good >>tango and some even hip hop a good vals. >> >> Well, an entrepreneurial person in Arizona has come up with an >> alternative. They have come up with an idea they think will be >> different and fun. They plan to rent a third room at a studio and play >> nuevo and alternative tango music in it. They'll load the speakers with >> Bajofondo Tango Club, Narcotango, Tanghetto as well as a little other >> nuevo music plus some other cds of music which can clearly be used to >> let them fools think they are dancing tango so they can charge them the >> customary admission the tango dancers pay." >> >>I smiled when I thougth of your shared idea. I do agree and here's why. >>There are only a few DJ's that I have heard that can play "alternative" >>music that you can actually dance to. The two that come to mind are Alex >>Krebs and Robin Thomas. They will play it sparingly and what they play is >>very danceable. In a night of tango music maybe 3% will be alternative. >>For me and many, many I know that is plenty. Why people want alternative >>at a Tango dance I am not sure. Here is why I don't. >> >>When danceable alternative music is played I can "dance" it, however, I >>can't "Tango" it. Alternative music does not and cannot evoke in me the >>same emotions, feelings, inspiration, etc that Calo, Pugliese, Biagi, >>D'Augostino, D'Arienzo, a De Angelis waltz, etc can. I tango because of >>what it evokes in me. I tango because of how I can connect in such an >>intimate way with my partner of approximately 3 minutes. I tango because >>I >>am enamoured of sharing my inner being with another who shares their inner >>being back with me. I tango because of the way the two of us communicate >>in a telepathic way what we feel and want in that tango. I tango because >>there becomes nothing else in the world that matters except that person in >>my embrace. If you ever truly listened to the music that a Robert Hauk, a >>Dan Bocca, a Manuel Patino, etc plays for milongas, how could you really >>want to dance tango to Elvis, Alicia Keys, Ray Charles, etc. >> >>If you ever tango with someone like Alicia Pons (like dancing with liquid >>lava), Barbara Durr, Ann Leva, Lois Donnay to a Pugliese, Calo, De Angelis >>waltz, my God how could you want anything other than the real thing. >>[Thank you to all the wonderful tangueras I have shared such wonderful >>dances with. This post doesn't have the room to name you all.] Sorry >>Alicia Keys dosen't come close to cutting it. If you have been to >>milongas >>in Buenos Aires you will know. They have booed DJ's who aren't playing >>good danceable music and if they didn't change the music escort them out >>the door. >> >>Am I saying there should not be some alternative music. No. My >>preference >>would be none. What I don't want is a four hour milonga with 2 hours of >>alternative. What I do want is if it is played at a milonga is that it be >>minimal and danceable. I fell in love with tango because of tango music >>and the magic it evokes in me and others. >> >>I now have this urgent need to go dance tango. Words are inadequate, the >>dance, more than adequate. Yummy. >> >>Bravisimo Alberto!! >> >>My humble opinion and thoughts, >> >>David Allen >> Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 11:41:12 -0700 From: Trini or Sean - PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM> Subject: Question on Alternative Music Hi all, I am trying to figure out what is it about alternative music (such as the tango renditions of Beatles tunes, just as one example) that encourages the longer, flowing movements of Nuevo. The melody? More marcato in 2? Some other term I am clueless on? What I am thinking is that the music of DArienzo, for example, really encourages the QQS vocabulary with the smaller steps used by central B.A. dancers. If tango styles developed along musical lines (as well, as space issues) what would then be the musical change for Nuevo, as being developed on the West Coast. Any ideas? Thanks, Trini de Pittsburgh PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance. https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 14:06:43 -0700 From: ramiro garcia <ramiro9@YAHOO.COM> Subject: Re: Question on Alternative Music -----disclaimer----- I am mostly a traditionalist when it comes to the music, and Rarely play 'Nuevo' music. Even then, I often play 'Nuevo' style from the 40s and 50s. I like to dance Nuevo, Open embrace, and close embrace. ----end disclaimer---- I believe one of the elements in Nuevo music that is conducive to the longer stride is the wandering beat. Music in strict tempo "chains" you to the beat. Whether it's blatant and obvious, like D'Arienzo and Biagi, or more subtly, like DiSarli, or even Demar. It is Very Very clear when you are On the beat, and Off the beat. With Nuevo music, and a wandering beat, it is not so clear. You can miss a beat here, a beat there. You can take 2-beat step, a 1.5 beat step, a 2.2 beat step. You're not tied to the 1-1-1-2-1-2-2. Not being tied to that, other forces come into play to determine the length of your step. Perhaps one of these forces is your natural rhythm, your natural harmonic as a function of the length of your legs, torso, your mass, and your partner's. In any case, it is easier to find "your own pace" when the music does not adhere to a strict tempo, and that appears to be a longer step. ramiro --- Trini or Sean - PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM> wrote: > Hi all, > > I am trying to figure out what is it about alternative > music (such as the tango renditions of Beatles tunes, > just as one example) that encourages the longer, > flowing movements of Nuevo. The melody? More marcato > in 2? Some other term I am clueless on? > > What I am thinking is that the music of DArienzo, for > example, really encourages the QQS vocabulary with the > smaller steps used by central B.A. dancers. If tango > styles developed along musical lines (as well, as > space issues) what would then be the musical change > for Nuevo, as being developed on the West Coast. Any > ideas? > > Thanks, > Trini de Pittsburgh > > > > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society > Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular > social dance. > https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm > > > > > ramiro garcia ramiro9@yahoo.com --- In their feud [Stalin and Trotsky] both were right. Stalin was right in maintaining that his regime was the embodiment of socialist principles. Trotsky was right in asserting that Stalin's regime had made Russia a hell. Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 16:43:17 -0500 From: Lois Donnay <donnay@DONNAY.NET> Subject: Re: Question on Alternative Music This is an excellent question, and I would like to add a corollary. I often complain about the music played at milongas, especially when it gets away from the old standards. Why? It seems that alternative music gives leaders permission to not dance to the music -just perform all their figures while some background music plays. As a matter of fact, this Saturday I'll be teaching a workshop on how to dance to alternative music. What moves do you like to do to various types of music? For instance, I like strong, earthy and grounded steps, with a loose waist, to Blues music. I like suspension moves to Bajafondo, etc. Lois Donnay Minneapolis, MN > -----Original Message----- > From: Trini or Sean - PATangoS [mailto:patangos@YAHOO.COM] > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 1:41 PM > To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: [TANGO-L] Question on Alternative Music > > > Hi all, > > I am trying to figure out what is it about alternative > music (such as the tango renditions of Beatles tunes, > just as one example) that encourages the longer, > flowing movements of Nuevo. The melody? More marcato > in 2? Some other term I am clueless on? > > What I am thinking is that the music of DArienzo, for > example, really encourages the QQS vocabulary with the > smaller steps used by central B.A. dancers. If tango > styles developed along musical lines (as well, as > space issues) what would then be the musical change > for Nuevo, as being developed on the West Coast. Any > ideas? > > Thanks, > Trini de Pittsburgh > > > > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society > Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most > popular social dance. https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm > > > > > > Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 16:51:21 -0600 From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET> Subject: Re: Question on Alternative Music Trini wrote: >If tango styles developed along musical lines (as well, as space issues) what would then be the musical change for Nuevo, as being developed on the West Coast. Any ideas?< My 2 cents: Julio de Caro was credited with changing the tango music but keeping the essence of tango. At the end he overdid it, and lost popularity. How does one keep the essence of tango in evolving music, so that it is considered tango music at least for dancing? Some tango dancers has come up with criteria for music: music with a walking beat, which could be danced to tango music. Recently, in perusing at the history of candombe and tango I have read that if one superimposes tango or milonga on top of Candombe music it will fit in nicely. This is because the rhythmical phrase of candombe consists of two (2) measures (compases) in 4/8 time. The small drum of candombe called "El chico" has a fixed rhythm, whereas another drum called "el repique" acts as improviser of rhythms. Perhaps, another way to gauge non-tango music for dancing would be to pass the candombe test mentioned above. Regards, Bruno Date: Wed, 20 Jul 2005 19:35:55 -0400 From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Question on Alternative Music >From: Lois Donnay <donnay@DONNAY.NET> > >This is an excellent question, and I would like to add a corollary. I often >complain about the music played at milongas, especially when it gets away >from the old standards. Why? It seems that alternative music gives leaders >permission to not dance to the music -just perform all their figures while >some background music plays. As a matter of fact, this Saturday I'll be >teaching a workshop on how to dance to alternative music. > I feel the same way as you Lois. When I go to a milonga, I really want to enjoy dancing tango. I love Valses as well and the ocassional milonga :-). I've always suspected that in the vast majority of cases, the dancers who prefer to dance to some forms of "alternative" tango music don't really want to be bothered by the driving rhythm of the classic golden era tangos. Having said that, I recognize that there are some talented dancers who can definitely dance to the music of whatever they choose to dance to. >What moves do you like to do to various types of music? For instance, I >like >strong, earthy and grounded steps, with a loose waist, to Blues music. I >like suspension moves to Bajafondo, etc. Some of the "alternative" muisc is actually quite danceable with tango-like steps and movements. I try to find music that is danceable to play when the dancers want something different. Blues, Bajofondo and many other genres/bands are quite good for the tango Rhythm. Personally, I'm very traditionalist when it comes to my tango music. I don't mind other types of music and I actually love good Salsa, Swing, etc. It's just that there is so much good tango music that I rarely see the need to dance it to other types of music. Likewise, I really don't like it when the DJ plays some terrible, undanceable Salsa or swing either. There is lots of good music in each genre. It's a shame to waste the time, dance floor and partners trying to make something out of something else. Best regards, Manuel Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:13:47 EDT From: Richard deSousa <Mallpasso@AOL.COM> Subject: Re: Question on Alternative Music I went to CellSpace, a popular San Francisco alternative tango venue, last night and many of the same tango dancers who frequent the "normal" tango venues were there. It occured to me and I finally realized why some of them never seem to dance on the beat of the music because they danced to alternative music off the beat and traditional tango music off the beat too! So is it because they're not skilled dancers that they can't dance to the beat even when it's very clear, in the case of traditional tango music, or they just don't care? El Bandito de Tango In a message dated 7/20/2005 14:26:04 Pacific Daylight Time, ramiro9@YAHOO.COM writes: -----disclaimer----- I am mostly a traditionalist when it comes to the music, and Rarely play 'Nuevo' music. Even then, I often play 'Nuevo' style from the 40s and 50s. I like to dance Nuevo, Open embrace, and close embrace. ----end disclaimer---- I believe one of the elements in Nuevo music that is conducive to the longer stride is the wandering beat. Music in strict tempo "chains" you to the beat. Whether it's blatant and obvious, like D'Arienzo and Biagi, or more subtly, like DiSarli, or even Demar. It is Very Very clear when you are On the beat, and Off the beat. With Nuevo music, and a wandering beat, it is not so clear. You can miss a beat here, a beat there. You can take 2-beat step, a 1.5 beat step, a 2.2 beat step. You're not tied to the 1-1-1-2-1-2-2. Not being tied to that, other forces come into play to determine the length of your step. Perhaps one of these forces is your natural rhythm, your natural harmonic as a function of the length of your legs, torso, your mass, and your partner's. In any case, it is easier to find "your own pace" when the music does not adhere to a strict tempo, and that appears to be a longer step. ramiro --- Trini or Sean - PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM> wrote: > Hi all, > > I am trying to figure out what is it about alternative > music (such as the tango renditions of Beatles tunes, > just as one example) that encourages the longer, > flowing movements of Nuevo. The melody? More marcato > in 2? Some other term I am clueless on? > > What I am thinking is that the music of DArienzo, for > example, really encourages the QQS vocabulary with the > smaller steps used by central B.A. dancers. If tango > styles developed along musical lines (as well, as > space issues) what would then be the musical change > for Nuevo, as being developed on the West Coast. Any > ideas? > > Thanks, > Trini de Pittsburgh > > > > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society > Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular > social dance. > https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm > > > > > ramiro garcia ramiro9@yahoo.com --- In their feud [Stalin and Trotsky] both were right. Stalin was right in maintaining that his regime was the embodiment of socialist principles. Trotsky was right in asserting that Stalin's regime had made Russia a hell. Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 10:50:51 -0700 From: Trini or Sean - PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM> Subject: Re: Question on Alternative Music Oh, dear. Guess I will have to get my musician friends to help me hear the difference with 4/8 time. I keep associating Candombe with milonga, but I will have to listen more closely. Could you be more specific about De Caro? One of the areas I would eventually like to learn is the "tricks" of the different orchestras. Thanks, Trini --- Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET> wrote: > My 2 cents: > > Julio de Caro was credited with changing the tango > music but keeping the > essence of tango. At the end he overdid it, and lost > popularity. > > How does one keep the essence of tango in evolving > music, so that it is > considered tango music at least for dancing? > > Some tango dancers has come up with criteria for > music: music with a walking > beat, which could be danced to tango music. > Recently, in perusing at the > history of candombe and tango I have read that if > one superimposes tango or > milonga on top of Candombe music it will fit in > nicely. This is because the > rhythmical phrase of candombe consists of two (2) > measures (compases) in 4/8 > time. The small drum of candombe called "El chico" > has a fixed rhythm, > whereas another drum called "el repique" acts as > improviser of rhythms. > > Perhaps, another way to gauge non-tango music for > dancing would be to pass > the candombe test mentioned above. > > Regards, > > Bruno > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance. https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm Yahoo! Mail Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour: Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:21:34 -0700 From: Daniel Lapadula <clubstyletango@YAHOO.COM> Subject: Re: Question on Alternative Music Richard ,in the last sentence you asked and at the same time, answer your question. Regards. Daniel Richard deSousa <Mallpasso@AOL.COM> wrote: I went to CellSpace, a popular San Francisco alternative tango venue, last night and many of the same tango dancers who frequent the "normal" tango venues were there. It occured to me and I finally realized why some of them never seem to dance on the beat of the music because they danced to alternative music off the beat and traditional tango music off the beat too! So is it because they're not skilled dancers that they can't dance to the beat even when it's very clear, in the case of traditional tango music, or they just don't care? El Bandito de Tango In a message dated 7/20/2005 14:26:04 Pacific Daylight Time, ramiro9@YAHOO.COM writes: -----disclaimer----- I am mostly a traditionalist when it comes to the music, and Rarely play 'Nuevo' music. Even then, I often play 'Nuevo' style from the 40s and 50s. I like to dance Nuevo, Open embrace, and close embrace. ----end disclaimer---- I believe one of the elements in Nuevo music that is conducive to the longer stride is the wandering beat. Music in strict tempo "chains" you to the beat. Whether it's blatant and obvious, like D'Arienzo and Biagi, or more subtly, like DiSarli, or even Demar. It is Very Very clear when you are On the beat, and Off the beat. With Nuevo music, and a wandering beat, it is not so clear. You can miss a beat here, a beat there. You can take 2-beat step, a 1.5 beat step, a 2.2 beat step. You're not tied to the 1-1-1-2-1-2-2. Not being tied to that, other forces come into play to determine the length of your step. Perhaps one of these forces is your natural rhythm, your natural harmonic as a function of the length of your legs, torso, your mass, and your partner's. In any case, it is easier to find "your own pace" when the music does not adhere to a strict tempo, and that appears to be a longer step. ramiro --- Trini or Sean - PATangoS wrote: > Hi all, > > I am trying to figure out what is it about alternative > music (such as the tango renditions of Beatles tunes, > just as one example) that encourages the longer, > flowing movements of Nuevo. The melody? More marcato > in 2? Some other term I am clueless on? > > What I am thinking is that the music of DArienzo, for > example, really encourages the QQS vocabulary with the > smaller steps used by central B.A. dancers. If tango > styles developed along musical lines (as well, as > space issues) what would then be the musical change > for Nuevo, as being developed on the West Coast. Any > ideas? > > Thanks, > Trini de Pittsburgh > > > > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society > Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular > social dance. > https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm > > > > > ramiro garcia ramiro9@yahoo.com --- In their feud [Stalin and Trotsky] both were right. Stalin was right in maintaining that his regime was the embodiment of socialist principles. Trotsky was right in asserting that Stalin's regime had made Russia a hell. Daniel Lapadula ClubStyleTango@yahoo.com www.tangoestilodelcentro.com Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 16:14:31 EDT From: Richard deSousa <Mallpasso@AOL.COM> Subject: Re: Question on Alternative Music Daniel: Also, maybe they're just clueless?... ;-) In a message dated 7/21/2005 12:24:40 Pacific Daylight Time, clubstyletango@YAHOO.COM writes: Richard ,in the last sentence you asked and at the same time, answer your question. Regards. Daniel Richard deSousa <Mallpasso@AOL.COM> wrote: I went to CellSpace, a popular San Francisco alternative tango venue, last night and many of the same tango dancers who frequent the "normal" tango venues were there. It occured to me and I finally realized why some of them never seem to dance on the beat of the music because they danced to alternative music off the beat and traditional tango music off the beat too! So is it because they're not skilled dancers that they can't dance to the beat even when it's very clear, in the case of traditional tango music, or they just don't care? El Bandito de Tango In a message dated 7/20/2005 14:26:04 Pacific Daylight Time, ramiro9@YAHOO.COM writes: -----disclaimer----- I am mostly a traditionalist when it comes to the music, and Rarely play 'Nuevo' music. Even then, I often play 'Nuevo' style from the 40s and 50s. I like to dance Nuevo, Open embrace, and close embrace. ----end disclaimer---- I believe one of the elements in Nuevo music that is conducive to the longer stride is the wandering beat. Music in strict tempo "chains" you to the beat. Whether it's blatant and obvious, like D'Arienzo and Biagi, or more subtly, like DiSarli, or even Demar. It is Very Very clear when you are On the beat, and Off the beat. With Nuevo music, and a wandering beat, it is not so clear. You can miss a beat here, a beat there. You can take 2-beat step, a 1.5 beat step, a 2.2 beat step. You're not tied to the 1-1-1-2-1-2-2. Not being tied to that, other forces come into play to determine the length of your step. Perhaps one of these forces is your natural rhythm, your natural harmonic as a function of the length of your legs, torso, your mass, and your partner's. In any case, it is easier to find "your own pace" when the music does not adhere to a strict tempo, and that appears to be a longer step. ramiro --- Trini or Sean - PATangoS wrote: > Hi all, > > I am trying to figure out what is it about alternative > music (such as the tango renditions of Beatles tunes, > just as one example) that encourages the longer, > flowing movements of Nuevo. The melody? More marcato > in 2? Some other term I am clueless on? > > What I am thinking is that the music of DArienzo, for > example, really encourages the QQS vocabulary with the > smaller steps used by central B.A. dancers. If tango > styles developed along musical lines (as well, as > space issues) what would then be the musical change > for Nuevo, as being developed on the West Coast. Any > ideas? > > Thanks, > Trini de Pittsburgh > > > > PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society > Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular > social dance. > https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm > > > > > ramiro garcia ramiro9@yahoo.com --- In their feud [Stalin and Trotsky] both were right. Stalin was right in maintaining that his regime was the embodiment of socialist principles. Trotsky was right in asserting that Stalin's regime had made Russia a hell. Daniel Lapadula ClubStyleTango@yahoo.com www.tangoestilodelcentro.com Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:21:40 -0600 From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET> Subject: Re: Question on Alternative Music Trini wrote: >Could you be more specific about De Caro? One of the areas I would eventually like to learn is the "tricks" of the different orchestras.< My 2 cents: Up to the beginnings of the 1920's the tango styles in the music was not defined. Tango was played in a simple, marked, harmonic way, and at the unison. Julio de Caro changed the tango music when he began interpreting the tangos from Agustin Bardi. DeCaro kept the essence of tango by blending (new) melodic rhythms: what is called tango romanza, with playful and bold rhythms from the old tangos from the arrabales(slums). De Caro overdid the change of tango music and lost popularity when he started experimenting with new sounds by including non-traditional tango instruments in his compositions. There is an example of Julio Decaro's tango music from 1928 "El Monito" at www.todotango.com in the creadores (creators) page. Pedro Maffia's interpretation of the tango Pelele is another example of new tango music, which kept old Milonga flavor. - I think that by "tricks" to dance to different orchestras you refer to the times the music calls for specific interpretations, which regular tango steps are too weak to emphasize. Sort of a different way to dance what is being traditionally danced to. Demian and Carolina Buenaventura provide a good analysis on this subject. Regards, Bruno Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 17:45:23 -0300 From: "andres amarilla" <andresamarilla@gmail.com> Subject: [Tango-L] alternative music. tango metre. To: tango-l@mit.edu <4247e78f0702231245oa46f0dfm881504281df6c4de@mail.gmail.com> Hi list! Someone wrote: Tango is a dance that is danced 2x4. Since De Caro establish the rules for tango theory, Tango is in 4 X 4. The trade mark Tango = 2X4 comes from a popular knowledge from the 1800's. We don't have real evidence about how tango sounded (in his spirit) when it was 2/4. The tango we listen is 4/4 metre ie. Gardel, Biaggi, Cal?, Laurenz, Tanturi, Troilo etc. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre_(music)<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre_%28music%29> a. Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2007 13:31:02 -0800 From: "anfractuoso anfractuoso" <anfractuoso@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] alternative music. tango metre. To: tango-l@mit.edu <ade549600702231331i4a50c070te5ec03fb8a5ddd17@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I don't think this is correct. I am not certain what 2x4 and 4x4 means, but I will assume it is referring to time signature like 2/4 and 4/4. Time signature has very little to do with how tango changed or feels like. Yes, historically there have been attempts (in music in general) to construct a robust and unambiguous 'mapping' between a time signature and a host of implications on how the music should be played and felt. These attempts have never been completely successful, nor are they needed since the composer can always write notes on what he intended. We do know what tango sounded like before around 1920. It had a habanera rhythm pattern (and was traditionally written in 2/4 time signature). Since 1920 tango straightened the rhythm pattern so it became straight 4, or straight 2 a bit later with Di Sarrli and Pugliese. You could see a tendency of the sheet music for the 'straightened' tango to be written in 4/8 (not 4/4), but there are also many example of keeping the same time signature of 2/4 as before, despite making the changes to the musical form. Cheers On 2/23/07, andres amarilla <andresamarilla@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi list! > > Someone wrote: Tango is a dance that is danced 2x4. > > Since De Caro establish the rules for tango theory, Tango is in 4 X 4. > The trade mark Tango = 2X4 comes from a popular knowledge from the 1800's. > We don't have real evidence about how tango sounded (in his spirit) when it > was 2/4. The tango we listen is 4/4 metre ie. Gardel, Biaggi, Cal?, > Laurenz, Tanturi, Troilo etc. > > > en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre_(music)<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metre_%28music%29> > > a. Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 15:44:15 -0300 From: wendy gordon <producer@workproductions.com> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Alternative Music To: <tango-l@mit.edu> Bravo Nina and Huck and Deby for taking a stand! Argentinean tango is danced to tango music. Period. The fact that the dance is evolving doesn?t make the new thing it is becoming TANGO. As it evolves, perhaps it is becoming something else. . A form of tango, a modern version, but by it?s very definition it is not traditional, classical, argentinean tango. So what? the way I see it.. This is an argument of semantics. Call it tango nuevo or what ever you like and leave it at that. But Kat, why are you trying so hard to fit a square peg into a round hole. You said: i'd much rather have dirty, sloppy, broken tango with some balls. you don't have to want that, either! but you sure as hell can't convince me that i can't have it, or that it doesn't exist, or that I need to rename it for you. For all I care we can call it KAT TANGO or sloppy, broken tango with some balls tango, but what ever it is it isnt traditional argentinean tango.. And I for one hope that at the very least you don?t dance that on a crowded floor. No one wants to tell you not to dance it.. I don?t think anyone cares what or how you interpret your dance. Your arrogance comes in the form of trying to make what YOU do somehow relevant within the history and tradition of an established form. > There are a million examples of evolution in thes arts. Innovators who have > changed their forms forever. Look at modern art, the history of rock and roll > or jazz, modern dance, theatre, poetry. No one would ever suggest that ee > cummings and william wordsworth belong on the same dance floor, so to speak. > > It would be like dancing waltz steps to the the rolling stones. I am sure > they wrote a song or two in 3 time, but all you would succeed in doing is > dancing a waltz to a rock and roll song. Would you be waltzing? Yes. > Technically. But would you be dancing steps with the intent of the rolling > stones in mind.. Obviously not. > > Or think of it like this.. if a modern dancer were to put on toe shoes and > dance a modern dance to swanlake.. They still wouldn?t be dancing classical > ballet. They would be dancing something... But not classical ballet as we know > it. Are the viejos at sunderland on Saturday night dancing argentine tango? > Is Chicho? Perhaps the purists would say yes and then no. I don?t know that it > matters what you call it.. Perhaps Classical Tango and Modern Tango would > suffice, in the same way ballet and modern dance have taken different paths. > But clearly EVERYONE knows the difference between Mark Morris? version of the > Nutcracker and American Ballet Theater?s, and EVERYONE knows the difference > between dancing to Calo or Narcotango. > > And kat, shame on you for being so opinionated, rude and close-minded. You > arent from argentina, you will never have the same experience of the dance or > the music as the people who were born here. There are things that you will > never understand that are a part of this culture ... anymore than an > argentinean could understand what it feels like to be offered a 30 year > mortgage with 5 or 10 percent down (something, we as americans take as a > given) > There are simply cultural differences. And you lack the respect for the > culture and the music and the history. You didn?t grow up with tango, your > grandfather didn?t sing tango songs to you when you were a kid, and I wonder > if you can understand any of the words of the songs.. The poetry of tango > letras is inextricably bound the the music and the movement. > > You have a lot of nerve in my opinion trying to claim a path of it?s evolution > as something you KNOW. You are a visitor to tango-land. And a newly landed > one at that relatively speaking. Every single one of us foreigners is. But > why is it that you feel like you have to put YOUR stamp on it.. MADE IN > AMERICA!, MADE BY KAT? Proudly beating your chest that you also relevant > somehow? But why isnt it enough for you to call argentinean tango > ARGENTINEAN? And whatever you dance.. Something else? I think it is great fun > to dance to some of the songs mentioned by Miles as alternative tango songs. > But I don?t feel the same dancing to them as I do to Nada or Poema. I don?t > move the same way, I don?t feel the same connection with my partner. Is it > tango when I dance open and elongated and elastic? I don?t know. But I know > that it FEELS different. Are you paying attention to what it FEELS like? > What your body does? It will do different things depending on what the music > FEELS like..right? So if it feels different why shouldn?t you NAME it > something else? > > You said... > > ?Ooh, does that mean we can start alternately calling > pure Argentine Tango "Slicked-Back-Hair, > Rose-in-the-Teeth, Pretentious Windbag Dancing?" > > To begin with, if you really were paying attention to your tango history, you > would know that it was an american director in an american movie who put the > rose in rudolf valentino?s mouth. There isnt a single argentinean at a milonga > dancing with a stiff arm cavorting in a straight line with a rose in his > mouth. Re-read, Tango, the art history of love, if you need a reminder of how > badly foreigners bastardized the tango during the last century. > > And if this is what you think about tango, slicked back hair, rose in the > teeth, pretentious windbags, then I have a question for you.. Why are you > dancing? What is it your are in love with? In fact, why are you dancing tango > at all? If you don?t love tango music, and don?t love tango steps, and instead > are looking for ways to modify the dance and modify the music, then go ahead > and do it, I am sure you are a lovely modern dancer, and perhaps with time > you will come to be regarded as one of the innovators of a new art form but > don?t disrespect the history, the tradition or the culture in an effort to > call it your own. > > Wendy Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2007 15:01:44 -0500 From: lgmoseley@aol.com Subject: [Tango-L] Alternative music To: tango-l@mit.edu Cc: lgmoseley@btinternet.com I do not see how anyone can say "Traditional Tango music is better than Alternative music" - or vice versa. It is a matter of taste. I enjoy dancing to both. In my teaching, I try to ensure that beginners start with music of the golden age, but as they become more experienced, I introduce more modern music - and indeed invite them to bring their own preferred music. What is clear is that traditional music has a strong and steady rhythm while many, although not all, more modern/alternative pieces do not. That means that with the traditional material dancers have to make their dancing fit the music. For the more modern material (particularly pieces brought in from the pop world) there is rarely the same discipline and one can interpet as much as one wishes. My observations lead me to believe that anyone who can dance well to traditional music can also dance well to modern music, but that the reverse is not the case. Brazos Laurie (Laurence) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 01:23:20 -0300 From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar> Subject: [Tango-L] Traditional v. Alternative Music To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU> Two hours ago I attended the first day of the Festival Buenos Aires Tango at La Rural. I spoke with a woman at one of the stands in the products fair. Her company Pattaya distributes tango CDs and DVDs. She told me that when they play a CD by one of the new tango groups, people stop by to inquire about it and often purchase a CD. However, when they play traditional tango music from their extensive collection, the music doesn't draw anyone. Continue to Speeded up 78's \| ARTICLE INDEX

1013 Alternative music