3913 How to teach rhythm? Plus our new website.
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 13:02:35 -0500
From: Barbara Garvey <barbara@TANGOBAR-PRODUCTIONS.COM>
Subject: How to teach rhythm? Plus our new website.
Dear listeros,
Al and I are struggling with a challenge we haven't met before. One of
our students seems to have absolutely no sense of rhythm. We've been
working with D'Arienzo/Biaggi, etc, but so far to no avail. He is very
enthusiastic about tango, practices at home with his wife, has been
studying with us for a year, and is also a dear friend. This man is an
accomplished athlete (mainly golf and archery) and is extremely
disciplined. Has anyone had experience with this situation either
personally or as a teacher?
We truly don't want him to discouraged after all he has put into tango.
Advice???
Barbara
PS. Our website is finally updated; please visit it! We'll keep it
current with Puerto Vallarta tango news, and any links to tango in
Mexico we can find. Go to: www.tangobar-productions.com.
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 14:17:06 -0400
From: seth <s1redh@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm? Plus our new website.
IMHO
D'Arienzo/Biaggi are way too fast. I would make him dance as a follower
dancing Tango Vals to move the body. I would also try a swing immersion,
followed by an immersion in milongas.
Seth
On 10/24/05, Barbara Garvey <barbara@tangobar-productions.com> wrote:
>
> Dear listeros,
> Al and I are struggling with a challenge we haven't met before. One of
> our students seems to have absolutely no sense of rhythm. We've been
> working with etc, but so far to no avail. He is very
> enthusiastic about tango, practices at home with his wife, has been
> studying with us for a year, and is also a dear friend. This man is an
> accomplished athlete (mainly golf and archery) and is extremely
> disciplined. Has anyone had experience with this situation either
> personally or as a teacher?
> We truly don't want him to discouraged after all he has put into tango.
> Advice???
> Barbara
>
> PS. Our website is finally updated; please visit it! We'll keep it
> current with Puerto Vallarta tango news, and any links to tango in
> Mexico we can find. Go to: www.tangobar-productions.com<
> .
>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 06:27:34 -1200
From: Michael Ditkoff <tangomaniac@CAVTEL.NET>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm? Plus our new website.
Hello Barbara:
Golf and Tango?? HMMM. Tell him to bring a boombox and
1) Tee off to Tanturi
2) Make chip shots to Canaro
3) When he gets to the green, putt with Pugliese.
But really, he does have a sense of rhythm. There is a
rhythm to swinging a golf club even though only he hears it.
I suggest you ask him how he knows when to swing and how far
to wind up.
My first suggestion is have him practice WITHOUT music. When
he feels comfortable with his lead, he can pay attention to
the music. It's very difficult for beginners to pay
attention to what they are doing AND the music. You can't
move to the music if you don't know how to move.
My last suggestion is to lead him as if you are a couple
walking down the street. This is how I deal with people who
have difficulty hearing the music. I stand next to them,
side by side. I put my right hand over their right shoulder.
The other person puts their left hand over my left shoulder.
I lead us as we walk to the music. (S)he gets to feel how
big a step to take and when to step with the music.
Beginners usually don't understand the differnce between
notes and beats. Also, the golfer is probably concentrating
so much on his feet, he's not listening to the music. Is he
a ballroom dancer? Ballroom dancers are looking for that
repeated cadence of S-S-Q-Q-S in American Tango.
Hope this helps.
Michael
Washington, DC
Regretfully, no Troilo available when typing
> Dear listeros,
> Al and I are struggling with a challenge we haven't met
> before. One of our students seems to have absolutely no
> sense of rhythm. This man is > an accomplished athlete
(mainly golf and archery) and is > extremely disciplined.
Advice???
> Barbara
>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 11:49:55 -0700
From: Michael at Tango Bellingham <michaele@TANGOBELLINGHAM.COM>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm?
Can he walk in time with his own breathing? His own heartbeat? Start there.
Then progress to Brigitta Winkler's exercise of walking in time with his
partner's breath.
Then listening to a song with a tempo close to his heartbeat in bpm,
walk to it by himself, walk to it with his partner.
Then subdivide the beats - now walk to every other beat, every third
beat, always returning to the heart's rhythm when he gets lost.
See if that helps - YMMV.
Michael
Tango Bellingham
Barbara Garvey wrote:
> Dear listeros,
> Al and I are struggling with a challenge we haven't met before. One of
> our students seems to have absolutely no sense of rhythm. We've been
> working with D'Arienzo/Biaggi, etc, but so far to no avail. He is very
> enthusiastic about tango, practices at home with his wife, has been
> studying with us for a year, and is also a dear friend. This man is an
> accomplished athlete (mainly golf and archery) and is extremely
> disciplined. Has anyone had experience with this situation either
> personally or as a teacher?
> We truly don't want him to discouraged after all he has put into tango.
> Advice???
> Barbara
>
> PS. Our website is finally updated; please visit it! We'll keep it
> current with Puerto Vallarta tango news, and any links to tango in
> Mexico we can find. Go to: www.tangobar-productions.com.
>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:43:22 +0200
From: Ecsedy Áron <aron@MILONGA.HU>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm? Plus our new website.
I recommend to use neotango or alternative music with a very strong, slow,
even beat (too complicated drum sequences are no good).
It seems that many people have difficulties understanding acoustic music.
When I change to Gotan Project or Narcotango they appear to be able to
concentrate on their dancing more rather than finding the beat.
Aron
Ecsedy Áron
***********
Aron ECSEDY
Tel: +36 (20) 329 66 99
ICQ# 46386265
https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/
* * * * *
https://www.milonga.hu/
"Follow those who seek the truth.
Run from those who claim to have found it."
"There is more than one way to cook an omlette."
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 8:03 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] How to teach rhythm? Plus our new website.
Dear listeros,
Al and I are struggling with a challenge we haven't met before. One of our
students seems to have absolutely no sense of rhythm. We've been working
with D'Arienzo/Biaggi, etc, but so far to no avail. He is very enthusiastic
about tango, practices at home with his wife, has been studying with us for
a year, and is also a dear friend. This man is an accomplished athlete
(mainly golf and archery) and is extremely disciplined. Has anyone had
experience with this situation either personally or as a teacher?
We truly don't want him to discouraged after all he has put into tango.
Advice???
Barbara
PS. Our website is finally updated; please visit it! We'll keep it current
with Puerto Vallarta tango news, and any links to tango in Mexico we can
find. Go to: www.tangobar-productions.com.
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:43:22 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@TANGO.ORG>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm? Plus our new website.
Repetition, repetition, repitition.
A few never get it, some are really slow, but most will eventually
findn the beat.
Contrast might help:
Waltzes are extremely easy for beginners to hear the musical phrases,
i.e. the breath and release within the walking. They have a sweep and
pace.
Di Sarli has very little emphasis on the half-beat. But his phrasing
and walking rhythms are clear and steady.
D'Arienzo, 30s Canaro, Carabelli all have clear, steady rhythms with
equal emphasis on the half-beat.
1940s orchestras like Tanturi, Calo or Troilo, tend to have more
syncopation, so aren't as steady for newcomers.
(Di Sarli is only about 10% slower than D'Arienzo).
On Oct 24, 2005, at 12:02 PM, Barbara Garvey wrote:
> Dear listeros,
> Al and I are struggling with a challenge we haven't met before. One of
> our students seems to have absolutely no sense of rhythm. We've been
> working with D'Arienzo/Biaggi, etc, but so far to no avail. He is very
> enthusiastic about tango, practices at home with his wife, has been
> studying with us for a year, and is also a dear friend. This man is an
> accomplished athlete (mainly golf and archery) and is extremely
> disciplined. Has anyone had experience with this situation either
> personally or as a teacher?
>
> Barbara
>
> PS. Our website is finally updated; please visit it! We'll keep it
> current with Puerto Vallarta tango news, and any links to tango in
> Mexico we can find. Go to: www.tangobar-productions.com.
>
>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:15:11 -0700
From: David Liu <dwyliu@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm? Plus our new website.
I would start with very "easy" music, just identifying the "one" beat. Stay
here for at least a week or two. Correct him when he is too late or too
early.
Then count every beat (1, 2, 3, 4). Stay here for another 2-3 weeks.
Correct him when he is too late or too early.
Then *sing* every beat (1, 2, 3, 4). ONE, two, Three, four ... (empahsize
the numbers so they fit the music).
Then work on phrasing (1, 2, 3, 4 ; 2, 2, 3, 4 ; 3, 2, 3, 4 ; 4, 2, 3, 4 ;
1).
Also, I liked the idea of golfing to the music. I know a great dancer who
learned to hit baseballs to the music.
David
On 10/24/05, Barbara Garvey <barbara@tangobar-productions.com> wrote:
>
> Dear listeros,
> Al and I are struggling with a challenge we haven't met before. One of
> our students seems to have absolutely no sense of rhythm. We've been
> working with D'Arienzo/Biaggi, etc, but so far to no avail. He is very
> enthusiastic about tango, practices at home with his wife, has been
> studying with us for a year, and is also a dear friend. This man is an
> accomplished athlete (mainly golf and archery) and is extremely
> disciplined. Has anyone had experience with this situation either
> personally or as a teacher?
> We truly don't want him to discouraged after all he has put into tango.
> Advice???
> Barbara
>
> PS. Our website is finally updated; please visit it! We'll keep it
> current with Puerto Vallarta tango news, and any links to tango in
> Mexico we can find. Go to: www.tangobar-productions.com<
> .
>
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:02:19 EDT
From: Richard deSousa <Mallpasso@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm? Plus our new website.
I'd try some slower Di Sarli and work up to D'Arienzo - but more important,
if he's as disciplined as you say he is, he should get a WalkMan, or
equivalent, and listen to the music daily for several hours at a time so it permeates
into his heart and soul and his body acquires the rhythm of the music by osmosis.
El Bandito de Tango
In a message dated 10/24/2005 11:02:58 Pacific Daylight Time,
barbara@TANGOBAR-PRODUCTIONS.COM writes:
Dear listeros,
Al and I are struggling with a challenge we haven't met before. One of
our students seems to have absolutely no sense of rhythm. We've been
working with D'Arienzo/Biaggi, etc, but so far to no avail. He is very
enthusiastic about tango, practices at home with his wife, has been
studying with us for a year, and is also a dear friend. This man is an
accomplished athlete (mainly golf and archery) and is extremely
disciplined. Has anyone had experience with this situation either
personally or as a teacher?
We truly don't want him to discouraged after all he has put into tango.
Advice???
Barbara
PS. Our website is finally updated; please visit it! We'll keep it
current with Puerto Vallarta tango news, and any links to tango in
Mexico we can find. Go to: www.tangobar-productions.com.
Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 16:05:58 EDT
From: Bill King <Euroking@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm? Plus our new website.
Dear all from a rhythmically challenged student.
First, why is he rhythmically challenged? My first guess is that he might be
thinking too much. That has been my problem. Trying to figure out where I am
going, keeping my lead, figuring out where my follow is, traffic and how can
I complete the pattern, and you want me to think about the beat!! Get real
that fact that I keep coming back for more is amazing.
Other dances have been nightmares, as I have a definite problem of hearing
the music and at the same time to keep stepping on a beat and maintain a pattern
was impossible. Follows, especially my wife where frustrated as they were
back leading and with the music. I wanted to walk away....
Argentine Tango initially was no different until I learned it was walking and
that I did not always have to move with every beat, on a beat but not every
beat. This took pressure off. Also thinking a step at a time also relieved some
pressure. Getting in balance with each step was helpful. I then was moving
too fast, rushing through my steps. Still have not pleased my follows, except
for those on the same learning curve, who like me were not sure if it was
right.
While all this has been unfolding, I listen to AT whenever I can. Home
office, ipod on flights, whatever, and whenever.
The result is that I have lowered my expectations on what I can and can't do,
slowed down and let the music engulf me. This has allowed me to feel more
often the music and the mood. Do I get it right? Not really but it is better
than it was, I actually hear the downbeat and melody (if they are the right
terms) and sometimes can even change within a song.
This has allowed me to go back to other dances and be more effective in
dancing to the rhythm; I still have a long way to go so I appreciate those who have
patience. To those of us who over analyze we will see the light, it just
takes time.
Recognizing that as a lead, I have a lot of responsibility, but at the same
time if the follow truly follows, I have found it is amazing how the music can
take over the lead. But it can't do that until I can be relaxed enough to
hear it. Pressure from a follow, teacher or other to move to a musical beat when
your concentration is focused very strongly on other factors, just makes it
almost impossible. Relax and enjoy, build muscle memory and all of a sudden the
music is there.
Just some thoughts,
Bill from Seattle
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 12:53:03 +0100
From: Andrew RYSER SZYMAŃSKI
<arrabaltango@YAHOO.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm?
Dear Barbara,
The example you give is not all that exceptional. We
have one seasoned guy here in London who has been
dancing for at least the last 14 years and still
blatantly has no feel for the music. There are plenty
who have been at it for over 5 years and are in the
same boat [some of them are even aware of it....].
I find the main problem lies with initial teaching
focusing on moving to and on the beat [pulse], which
has nothing to do with either tango or rhythm: even
military personnel can do that. Rhythm is an [often
repeated] irregularity to the pulse. The brain
physiologically dismisses regular monotonous pulse
into the background when it has to concentrate on
other things [like movement]. It would appear
therefore that the subject has no sense of rhythm.
Actually, it is totally absurd to expect anybody to
learn about rhythm if you make them focus on its
opposite,ie pulse.
When I was doing my apprenticeship as teacher the
instructor would insist on playing D'Arienzo & Biagi
[both incredibly ON the beat] and the students would
switch off their ears in a matter of minutes. Of
course at that rate it takes years to empirically
develop any kind of musicality.
I found since that the best way to get beginners to
listen & move accordingly is to play music with
variable tempo [speed]; Piazzolla [or Pugliese]is
ideal beginner's music, you just cannot ignore it.
I would suggest that you get your friend to WALK on
his own as normally as possible to perhaps a lengthier
version of, say, Verano porteqo or Adios Nonino,
specifying that he should NOT move exclusively on the
beat, but listen to everything else, the easiest being
the melody.
Cheers,
Andy.
--- Barbara Garvey <barbara@TANGOBAR-PRODUCTIONS.COM>
wrote:
> Dear listeros,
> Al and I are struggling with a challenge we haven't
> met before. One of
> our students seems to have absolutely no sense of
> rhythm. We've been
> working with D'Arienzo/Biaggi, etc, but so far to no
> avail. He is very
> enthusiastic about tango, practices at home with his
> wife, has been
> studying with us for a year, and is also a dear
> friend. This man is an
> accomplished athlete (mainly golf and archery) and
> is extremely
> disciplined. Has anyone had experience with this
> situation either
> personally or as a teacher?
> We truly don't want him to discouraged after all he
> has put into tango.
> Advice???
> Barbara
>
> PS. Our website is finally updated; please visit it!
> We'll keep it
> current with Puerto Vallarta tango news, and any
> links to tango in
> Mexico we can find. Go to:
> www.tangobar-productions.com.
>
Andrew W. RYSER SZYMAQSKI,
23b All Saints Road,
London, W11 1HE,
07944 128 739.
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:12:44 -0600
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm? Plus our new website.
The relevant question to ask would be this I think: "Have you started
to teach him with teaching patterns as opposed to walking to a
music?".
It is much easier to start with musicality than to end with it.
--
Oleh Kovalchuke
https://TangoSpring.com
On 10/24/05, Barbara Garvey <barbara@tangobar-productions.com> wrote:
> Dear listeros,
> Al and I are struggling with a challenge we haven't met before. One of
> our students seems to have absolutely no sense of rhythm. We've been
> working with D'Arienzo/Biaggi, etc, but so far to no avail. He is very
> enthusiastic about tango, practices at home with his wife, has been
> studying with us for a year, and is also a dear friend. This man is an
> accomplished athlete (mainly golf and archery) and is extremely
> disciplined. Has anyone had experience with this situation either
> personally or as a teacher?
> We truly don't want him to discouraged after all he has put into tango.
> Advice???
> Barbara
>
> PS. Our website is finally updated; please visit it! We'll keep it
> current with Puerto Vallarta tango news, and any links to tango in
> Mexico we can find. Go to: www.tangobar-productions.com.
>
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:57:03 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@TANGO.ORG>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm?
A quick way to test this idea would be to observe at a milonga when
the orchestra is playing a night of unremitting Piazolla and
Pugliese. By Andy's theory everyone in the crowd should be on the
beat and in the music.
I frequently have the opportunity to observe this experiment,
although things are slightly adjusted from Andy's ideal in that I'm
watching 2, 4 and 8 year dancers, not beginners.
My observations indicate exactly the opposite effect: put on Piazzola
and Pugliese and 90% of the crowd is off the beat and off the music.
Put on Waltzes, D'Arienzo or Di Sarli and 90% are on the beat.
On Oct 25, 2005, at 5:53 AM, Andrew RYSER SZYMAŃSKI wrote:
> Dear Barbara,
>
> ...
> I found since that the best way to get beginners to
> listen & move accordingly is to play music with
> variable tempo [speed]; Piazzolla [or Pugliese]is
> ideal beginner's music, you just cannot ignore it.
> ...
> Cheers,
>
> Andy.
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 17:17:55 +0100
From: Andrew RYSER SZYMAŃSKI
<arrabaltango@YAHOO.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm?
Dear Tom,
Please read the context! I was referring to P & P as a
didactic element at the initial stages of learning.
I note that you say:-
> Put on Waltzes, D'Arienzo or Di Sarli and 90% are on
> the beat.
Agreed! but they are usually OFF the music [something
you carefully don't mention in this instance], since
these 2, 4 and 8 year dancers are just moving to a
background pulse only. More than 8 years to learn to
listen to the music? Don't you think it's a bit long?
Says a lot about their teacher(s).......
Cheers,
Andy.
--- Tom Stermitz <stermitz@TANGO.ORG> wrote:
> A quick way to test this idea would be to observe at
> a milonga when
> the orchestra is playing a night of unremitting
> Piazolla and
> Pugliese. By Andy's theory everyone in the crowd
> should be on the
> beat and in the music.
>
> I frequently have the opportunity to observe this
> experiment,
> although things are slightly adjusted from Andy's
> ideal in that I'm
> watching 2, 4 and 8 year dancers, not beginners.
>
> My observations indicate exactly the opposite
> effect: put on Piazzola
> and Pugliese and 90% of the crowd is off the beat
> and off the music.
> Put on Waltzes, D'Arienzo or Di Sarli and 90% are on
> the beat.
>
>
> On Oct 25, 2005, at 5:53 AM, Andrew RYSER SZYMAQSKI
> wrote:
>
> > Dear Barbara,
> >
> > ...
> > I found since that the best way to get beginners
> to
> > listen & move accordingly is to play music with
> > variable tempo [speed]; Piazzolla [or Pugliese]is
> > ideal beginner's music, you just cannot ignore it.
> > ...
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Andy.
>
>
> Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to
> Tango-A rather than to
> Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To
> subscribe to Tango-A,
> send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to
> LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
>
>
Andrew W. RYSER SZYMAQSKI,
23b All Saints Road,
London, W11 1HE,
07944 128 739.
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 01:06:26 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm?
One of
> our students seems to have absolutely no sense of rhythm. We've been
> working with D'Arienzo/Biaggi, etc, but so far to no avail. He is very
> enthusiastic about tango, practices at home with his wife, has been
> studying with us for a year, and is also a dear friend. This man is an
> accomplished athlete (mainly golf and archery) and is extremely
> disciplined.
Barbara,
you did not mention whether he actually listens to tango music at home.
Maybe he practises with his wife without music? Or they have the music as
some sort of background accompaniment,while they concentrate on the steps?
In Japan this lack of a sense of rhythm is rather common in tango, not as
extreme as in your students, but there are many people who are almost always
in front of the beat or behind it, or somewhere in between. Or people who
can sort of walk on the beat but don't know how to design their dance to fit
the music, meaning they will suddenly do a parada during a flowing fast
passage in a valse, or they will just keep on with some dull boring walk and
routine turns when Pugliese gets to the dramatic parts, and so on.
I believe, their problem is that they are not used to the rhythmical
structure of tango music. On the other hand, to this day, I cannot find much
rhythm in Japanese kabuki music, on the other hand, while some of them know
how to dance to this. To me, kabuki and classical Japanese dance sounds like
it has almost no rhythm or beat at all, it just sounds kind of alien and
strange in my ears.
The way to overcome this is to listen to lots and lots of music, until one
gets used to it and can figure out where is beat no. 1 in that 8 beat
sequence of tango. And to know lots of different songs by heart, so that the
body knows what to expect.
The second problem to be overcome is the problem controling the body. It is
one thing to be able to hear the music, it is a second problem to transfer
what you hear into the body and get it to move with it exactly on time.
I remember a private lesson with Gustavo Saenz many years ago. He was
dancing milonga with me. And said:"You are behind the beat!" So I tried
harder, and again he said:"You are behind the beat." We danced a couple more
songs,and finally he whispered into my ear:"If you still won't dance on the
beat, I am gonna kill you!" ; )
What he did not know was that I could (more or less) hear the beat but:
a) my shoes were a little too loose
b) I was struggling to keep my balance on the high heels
c) I was struggling with that rough, unwielding hard floor of that
particular room which did not allow my soles to glide properly
d) I was trying to coordinate the correct movement of my pelvic joints,
thigh muscles, knees, ankles, balls of my feet and toes and to keep it all
under control, and follow the unrelenting beat of the very fast music, which
was a challenge to me when I was a beginner.
e) I could hear the beat,but I could not hear it EXACTLY, like pinpoint the
exact peak of each beat, I could just hear the general "thump, thump,
thump".
In my observation, what makes the big difference between a good porten~o
tanguero who attends milongas and most other dancers, is just that:this
sharp keen sense of rhythm, that only develops once you have learned to live
inside that music, and you can almost move your body in your sleep to it.
Having said all that, we also have one Argentine who runs a little milonga
in Tokyo, who not only in his first years, but even now is STILL dancing
ahead of the beat,and does not seem to notice. He is also a rather poor DJ.
I have been to a couple milonga lessons where one of the young teachers
clapped her hands to the milonga music while the students danced and I kept
hoping she would stop because her clapping was slightly off beat, and I had
to ignore it to be able to dance.
This week, her clapping was right smack on the beat,and then exercising
alone was great fun, but when we started practising the new steps, almost
all the men were off beat, and struggling with subtle leads that were new
for them.
To me, being able to dance milonga is the lithmus test of whether somebody
is able to dance tango, can really lead, and can dance on the beat. I think,
to the European ear, at least, Pugliese is much easier to dance to, because
the rhythm has such strong varying accents and is so expressive that it
stimulates your fantasy on how to move. While Tanturi and some D'Arienzi
such sounded rather dull to me in the beginning,and dancing all the time to
these songs felt rather boring.
Hope this helps (if you actually managed to read all the way down to here)
Astrid
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 09:22:17 -0700
From: Yale Tango Club <yaletangoclub@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm?
Hi Tom, Andy, all
Tom I so agree with you and Andy, I disagree with you.
I get at our practica students from a teacher who plays floaty music during her beginners class. These people are dead in the water on my dance floor. I play music with b@lls, as does every DJ with half a reputation, and these people are truly handicapped out in the milonga world. Unfortunately it becomes very hard to teach musicality to people who by now have their mind on sacadas, as they are resistant to it.
I really don't understand how people can think the beat is not important. OK you can pause but when you do step it has to make musical sense! If both partners are listening to the same music, half the job of leading-following effectively is done!
Ask any in-demand follower what is most important in a leader and she will tell you "musicality", which is every step is somehow connected with the beat (not every beat has a step), and he does the right thing at the right time, even if the "right thing" is doing nothing (pause). You find each other in the music!
I have danced with
(1) people who are musical, including beginners. Great!
(2) robots who step on every beat and don't do the right thing at the right time, including pausing. OK it's a little boring, but these guys win over category (3):
(3) leaders who do volcadas, ganchos, anything you name it, with no regard at all for the music. Once I had to excuse myself and leave the room and cry with frustration after dancing with a category 3.
(4) bland tasteless leaders. Equally frustrating but at least in the absence of volcadas and colgadas you can think about your grocery shopping.
Tine
Tom Stermitz <stermitz@TANGO.ORG> wrote:
A quick way to test this idea would be to observe at a milonga when
the orchestra is playing a night of unremitting Piazolla and
Pugliese. By Andy's theory everyone in the crowd should be on the
beat and in the music.
I frequently have the opportunity to observe this experiment,
although things are slightly adjusted from Andy's ideal in that I'm
watching 2, 4 and 8 year dancers, not beginners.
My observations indicate exactly the opposite effect: put on Piazzola
and Pugliese and 90% of the crowd is off the beat and off the music.
Put on Waltzes, D'Arienzo or Di Sarli and 90% are on the beat.
On Oct 25, 2005, at 5:53 AM, Andrew RYSER SZYMAQSKI wrote:
> Dear Barbara,
>
> ...
> I found since that the best way to get beginners to
> listen & move accordingly is to play music with
> variable tempo [speed]; Piazzolla [or Pugliese]is
> ideal beginner's music, you just cannot ignore it.
> ...
> Cheers,
>
> Andy.
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Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 11:28:26 -0700
From: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm?
Dancing on the beat is extremely important.
But not as important as dancing with "on the partner".
Firstly, a dancer must listen to the partner, and in his/hers rhythmical
pattern, and then within the framework of this pattern find the precise
moments to execute all the moves and sub-moves according to rhythmical
structure of music from putting a foot on the ground to shaking of a
shoulder to torso tork and move of a finger. ( Of course, non-beginners know
it very well ;)
Andy's method to learn with Pugliese sounds extremely interesting to me. In
tango you do not have to step on the main beat. You have to find your own
rhythmical structure, and your partner must learn to step with you firstly.
A dancer should perceive him/herself as another musical instrument with its
own line. That is why dancing to Pugliese - everyone seem moving on their
own. That is what should be! May be interchange of Pugliese and Canaro will
work better?
I am thinking about an exercise of fast dancing to Pugliese. What could come
out of it?
Developing an individual sense of rhythm is another thing. I would do it to
the plain drums. From simple to most complex - Samba drums. Flamenco?
Astrid,
About holding rhythm in milonga.
The problem was not that you could not step on the beat, but that you did
not know the correct technique of a step in milonga. How physically to put
your legs, what is geometry of your bones, what is the distribution of
force. Sorry. Regular steps do not work, that is why you was off the beat.
And your teacher could not explain you what was wrong. You have to develop a
special technique for milonga steps, then you will have the ability to be
able to step precisely and react to fast movements.
Igor Polk.
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 14:48:09 -0400
From: seth <s1redh@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm?
On 10/25/05, Igor Polk <ipolk@virtuar.com> wrote:
>
>
> About holding rhythm in milonga.
> You have to develop a special technique for milonga steps, then you will
> have the ability to be
> able to step precisely and react to fast movements.
>
> Igor Polk.
A suggestion: strike the floor with soles flat. This will force shorter
steps and more bent knees .
The milonga styles changed over time, this is just one of many.
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 13:30:16 -0700
From: Michael at Tango Bellingham <michaele@TANGOBELLINGHAM.COM>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm?
Another suggestion which I use is to dance with the men, close embrace
or practice hold - I lead, they follow. Not only do they start hearing
the music/feeling the rhythm better, but they understand what the woman
is going through. The OP should consider having the gentleman in
question follow for a few months, preferably with the instructor or a
senior student with extremely good rhythmic skills.
Michael
Tango Bellingham
Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 09:54:46 +1000
From: John Lowry <john@LOWRY.COM.AU>
Subject: How to teach rhythm? Plus our new website.
I have found this works. Take the person out of "Tango Panic" mode. Play a
little latin, foxtrot, Fats Waller etc., to change the mood and add some fun
and relaxation. We never teach without music playing. It's fundamental. Old
music (Canaro, Donato, Firpo) has very obvious even rhythm and is useful.
Concentrate on technique and remind the student that he did not learn to
play golf in a month, so don't panic (that's the blocker). Once he starts
to master technique he will start to listen to the music. "It's simple, but
it's not easy. Why, because you have to do it" :)
Best wishes,
John
Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 22:32:54 EDT
From: TimmyTango@AOL.COM
Subject: how to teach rhythm
I also have people who are tone deaf and some that excel.
For the ones that are slow or dyslexic, it's not easy. Just time consuming.
Many people just starting our sometimes can't hear the beat. That depends on
the orchestra your playing.
First, if they can't hear the music, I teach them to feel the music.
Put their hand on the speaker, or put a tissue in front of the speaker to see
the tissue move with the pronounced beat. The speaker will make the beat
for you.
Second taking half, or rock steps forward, back, side to side. But more
importantly collecting. You can't step quickly if your feet are apart.
example: side rock step to the right, back collected. side rock step to the
left, back collected. Not putting your full weight on the foot you're stepping
on. Like you're stepping on a bug or cig butt.
right foot rock forward, right foot rock back collected.
left rock foot forward, left rock foot back collected
right foot forward, collect change weight
right foot back, collect change weight
for double time
It's just something I do,
Hope it helps.
Timmy in Cleveland
Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2005 16:21:09 -0500
From: Barbara Garvey <barbara@TANGOBAR-PRODUCTIONS.COM>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm? Plus our new website.
Thanks to all for your thoughtful concern and creativity in regard to
our rhythm-impaired student; . Al and I will be trying out many of your
good ideas, and if we find success, will certainly make a report. The
Lucia thread is quite amusing, as well, reminiscent of the Bad Old Days
(and some Bad New Days) on the list, which I always enjoyed.
Abrazos,
Barbara
Date: Fri, 28 Oct 2005 02:55:30 +0000
From: Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: How to teach rhythm? Plus our new website.
This is a lady!
Abrazos,
Lucia ;-)
Barbara Garvey <barbara@TANGOBAR-PRODUCTIONS.COM> escribis:
Thanks to all for your thoughtful concern and creativity in regard to
our rhythm-impaired student; . Al and I will be trying out many of your
good ideas, and if we find success, will certainly make a report. The
Lucia thread is quite amusing, as well, reminiscent of the Bad Old Days
(and some Bad New Days) on the list, which I always enjoyed.
Abrazos,
Barbara
Abrm tu cuenta aqum
