290  Modern Music, Piazzolla, Pugliese and Sexteto Tango

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 05:51:15 -0800
From: clayton beach <akumushi@ONEBOX.COM>
Subject: Modern Music, Piazzolla, Pugliese and Sexteto Tango

The Troilo and Sexteto tango Cd's are also my favorites of the RCA victor
series. They are amazing pieces of music. I know that many people who
like the older, dance oriented music of Troilo might order that CD expecting
something else, so I made that qualification.
I m also sorry for the misinformation about the Troilo. Piazzolla was
not arranging for Troilo at the time. However, if you listen to Piazzolla
from the Forties on albums like Se Armo or El Desbande, and then listen
to the Troilo CD, especially tracks like A Mis Viejos and Responso, you
will notice many stylistic similarities. There are times when it is
hard for me to believe that the direction does not come from Piazzolla.
If only he had pursued THAT path of his creativity. He was a decent
orchestra leader, and could have been one of the best in modern tango
music.
I also realize that I should the basis of my comment that Sexteto Tango
is more "progressive" than Piazzolla needs clarification.
For me, Piazzolla s nuevo tango represents a dead end in the evolution
of the tango. So many new tango musicians try to emulate a style that
is so unique it can only survive within the realm of Piazzolla. Every
piece has elements that are unique to him, and to try to create songs
in his style is plagiarism. The tango is a dance that was created before
the music that accompanies it. The music sprang from the dance, and
to try to separate the two is ridiculous. Piazzolla's removal of any
semblance of a danceable tango rhythm is like trying to surgically remove
the 3/4 time signature of a waltz and leaving its soul intact. Without
that rhythm the music loses its identity. It may become something new
and valuable, but it is NOT TANGO. I m sick of hearing copycat new recordings
and reading their liner notes that proclaim that Astor Piazzolla is the
father of modern tango, and I m sick of Americans and other foreigners
trying to jazz things up using actual jazz improvisation and rhythms.
The feel of jazz, its rhythms and its tonality, is something that destroys
the melancholy and drama of the tango. I love jazz and I love tango,
but not jazzy tango. New musicians want the freedom that Piazzolla
created, and want to show how good they are. In my opinion, operating
within bounds, in restraints and still being creative speaks more about
one s talent than throwing out all the rules and having chaos. Take
Thelonious Monk or John Coltrane versus Ornette Coleman and his free
jazz.
In tango, the pivotal member of the modern tango movement, and the one
who opened the most doors is Osvaldo Pugliese. Pugliese gives us examples
of what can be done with Piazzolla's contributions while respecting the
past. He moves BEYOND Piazzolla. Take his versions of Zum, or Adios
Nonino. These tracks take ideas that Piazzolla introduced, and incorporate
these new possibilities along with the traditional, making progressive
tango that is still TANGO. In this way, I deemed Sexteto Tango more
progressive than piazzolla in that they continue to explore possibilities
within the tango. A beautiful recording for the history of tango is
Piazzolla and Pugliese's concert together, available on CD's entitled
"finally together."
Sexteto Tango respects the past and the rules of the tango, though they
bend and twist these rules in their creative endeavors. They found
ways to explore dissonance and rhythm that are relevant to the music
they play. To ignore 100 years of evolution because one man decided
that the rhythm and tonality of the tango and the needs of us dancers
were limiting his artistic freedom is absurd. It is also ridicualous
to throw away his additions, though that behavior is almost non-existant.
Throughout tango s evolution, there have been revolutions and discoveries
of how to improvise. But the ball always rolled forward. Musicians
have experimented with what embellishments fit, and how to use melody,
harmony, dissonance and rhythm within the world of the tango. For me,
the most profound, and progressive discussion of these concepts to date
is found within the music of Sexteto Tango.
Piazzolla lost his way and left modern musicians to pick up the pieces
after his revolution. To this day, many are still confused. Unfortunately,
today most tango musicians are reduced to mimicry, whether of the orchestras
of the Golden age, or Piazzolla s quintets. Many of the most promising
ones have decided to follow Piazzolla s path of self-gratification, ignoring
the roots of the tango and the people that truly keep it alive. Only
a handful are producing original and thoughtful, yet danceable tango.

I m sure this will spark many responses, in favor of Piazzolla, or many
contemporary artists. I d love to hear everyone s thoughts.
Keep in mind that I do like Piazzolla s music, I have maybe thirteen
or so of his albums, but for the most part I would consider it classical
music before I would consider it tango. There are maybe five of his
"nuevo" tangos that I would actually enjoy dancing to.
I also am a great fan of Color Tango, though I wish they would ditch
their keyboardist and the synthesized strings (not the pianist; she s
incredible). I just wish they would except the fact that they are not
a large orchestra like those of yesteryear, and that they would use that
to their advantage, in order to cultivate a unique style.
The Quintet and Sextet have been the foundations of many of the most
advanced schools of tango. These guys to not need to "fill out" their
sound by resorting to synthesizers.
--
Clayton Beach
akumushi@onebox.com

Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 01:10:05 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Modern music, Piazzolla, Pugliese and Sexteto Tango

I m sick of hearing copycat new recordings

> and reading their liner notes that proclaim that Astor Piazzolla is the
> father of modern tango, and I m sick of Americans and other foreigners
> trying to jazz things up using actual jazz improvisation and rhythms.

Many of the most promising

> ones have decided to follow Piazzolla s path of self-gratification,

ignoring

> the roots of the tango and the people that truly keep it alive. Only
> a handful are producing original and thoughtful, yet danceable tango.
>

*
Whether you like it or not, Clayton, Piazzolla IS the father of modern
tango. The truth is, by the time Piazzolla arrived on the scene, tango was
already dying. (A German scholar of the Ibero- American research institute
writes, to my great surprise, that in the Eighties tango was kept alive in
Japan) Most of the Argentines were dancing Rock n' Roll and other things,
and in Europe tango was no longer popular either.
I have a close friend from BsAs who spent his teenage years with the notion
that tango was something for old folks, like his parents. Until his
girlfriend, the niece of Astor, introduced him to her uncle.
Piazzolla's piano teacher was a student of a student of Rachmaninov (Nadia
Boulanger, Bela Wilder ), and if you listen carefully, you can still find
Rachmaninov's harmonies in Piazzolla's music.
I don't know what Jazz is supposed to have to do with any of this.
Fact is, Piazzolla made listening to tango interesting for the young
generation, who was not into that scratchy old fashioned stuff their parents
loved,
and that opened the door to all the other older music being revived and
listened to by the younger ones too, because they eventually started to
dance tango again.
Those who want "original and thoughtful, yet danceable tango" are often the
same ones who joined the bandwagon after Piazzolla made the music popular
again.

Astrid

Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 01:41:26 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: correction Modern music, Piazzolla, Pugliese and Sexteto Tango

I gave you some wrong information.
Piazzolla's piano teacher was Bela Wilder (or Wilda, depending on the
source), Rachmaninov's student.
(Astor's mother paid the family's friend with a pot of Ravioli for his
services, for lack of other resources)
Later Piazzolla got a job as a substitute bandoneonist in Troilo's
orchestra. He did his audition playing George Gershwin. (that must be where
the jazz comes in). And Troilo's complete repertoire.
Later he quit his job, went to Paris and met Nadia Boulanger, who was not a
Rachmaninov, but a Ravel student.
She is the one who inspired him to go back to playing tango.

So, Clayton, instead of using the words "ridiculous", "sick of",
"self-gratification" and so on, you should make a distinction between those
tango lovers who love to listen, and to feel the soul of tango and it's
torment, and those who love to dance. And leave those who love to do both to
choose to listen to whoever they like, authentic and danceable or not.

If you want a new young orchestra who plays Piazzolla and also other things,
and is still danceable too and sounds authentic enough, buy Sexteto Sur.

Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 11:21:16 -0400
From: Keith Elshaw <keith@TOTANGO.NET>
Subject: Modern Music, Piazzolla, Pugliese and Sexteto Tango

I don't think it has been made clear in this thread that Sexteto Tango was
basically the Pugliese players led by Osvaldo Ruggiero after they left him -
the piano in the hands of Julian Plaza. Osvaldo's music never sounded quite
as good after their departure. They weren't as good either without him - but
his way of approaching things remained with them.

I personally lamented their use of an electric piano on many of their
recording sessions, making the over-all sound close to brittle rather than
rich.

Keith


http://ToTANGO.net

Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 10:39:52 -0800
From: Leopoldo Betrico <iwanttotango@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Modern Music, Piazzolla, Pugliese and Sexteto Tango

Hi Clayton et al,

It's been a while since I've contributed but this
topic is one that I feel very passionate about and was
unable to resist it.

First and foremost I have to disagree with you on your
views of Piazzolla and modern tango. In my opinion, in
the last 50 years, no one has done more for tango and
the bandoneon than Astor Piazzolla. (I am definitely
very biased in this opinion because it was Piazzolla's
performance that inspired me to take up the
bandoneon).

Piazzolla's music has influenced more musicians abroad
to explore Argentine Tango than any other Argentine
composers. For Argentine Tango to survive and evolve,
you need musicians. It is unfair to separate the
culture, the dance, and the music in Argentine Tango.
(In fact given any music, it is important to take the
culture, politics, social issues, etc. into account
when you're appreciating the music). As the world
changes, people will change, Argentine Tango as a
dance will change, and Argentine Tango music will
change. It is akin to a living and breathing entity
and I hope it will live on for many more centuries to
come.

Piazzolla also influenced a significant portion of the
younger Argentine population. At a time when tango was
fading away amidst political turmoil, he was very
influencial in the evolution of tango as music and as
a culture. Many young people who identified with him
and his music were led to a re-explore the tango of
their parents/grand parents. Having lived in the US
for quite some time, I think that a misconception most
North Americans have is that every Argentine dances
the tango. The tango is everywhere in Buenos Aires, we
hear it, we feel it, we breathe it, but only a small
portion of the population actually dances it,
especially the younger generation.

Now to directly address your comments...

> The tango is a dance
> that was created before
> the music that accompanies it.

Where did you get this information from? Tango is a
dance that has evolved *along* with the music. The
music, dance, and culture all evolved at the same
time. People dance to music. I can understand an
argument that the music came before the dance but the
reverse would suggest that the dance is done like a
sport or some physical activity in its own.

> Piazzolla's removal of any
> semblance of a danceable tango rhythm is like trying
> to surgically remove
> the 3/4 time signature of a waltz and leaving its
> soul intact. Without
> that rhythm the music loses its identity. It may
> become something new
> and valuable, but it is NOT TANGO.

You mentioned a few times about "rules" and "bounds",
and what constitutes a tango. Let me ask you a plain
question, "What to you constitutes a tango?". I am
very curious to hear. What rules and what bounds? I
believe the above statement is a very poor analogy.
The waltz by definition has 3/4 time signature (or
6/8). This is the definition of a waltz. Of course, to
change the time signature to something else would make
it not a waltz. To say that Piazzolla "removed any
semblance of a danceable tango rhythm" and imply that
it is not tango, to me is absurd. What is danceable
tango rhythm to you? Milongas have a few different
rhythms. Are you refering to simplest of all tango
rhythms where just the 1 and the 3 are accented? Or
the 1, the and of the 1, and the 3 are accented? Or
something else? For me what makes certain music a
tango is the visceral aspect of it. The "umpph" in the
song, the undeniable feeling.

I don't understand why some people say one song is
danceable and the other is not. Just because one
person cannot dance to it does not mean that it's
undanceable. I'll admit that it takes more of a
musically experienced ear to appreaciate and dance to
Piazzolla. To be honest, I didn't learn to appreciate
classical music until I started learning an
instrument, learning music, theory, ear training, etc.
Before that, classical music didn't do anything for
me. When I started learning my instrument, I couldn't
get enough of classical music. As time passed, tango
became pale and boring for me. It was Piazzolla that
got me back into the tango. It has the intricacies &
stimulus the brain & ear desires, but most
importantly, it has the **umpph** the heart desires.
The visceral aspect of it. And that's when I first
realized Piazzolla's contribution to tango. Every few
months or so I learn to appreciate Piazzolla's music
at a different level.

Okay I've written long enough. Maybe next time I'll
get into Pugliese (and Color Tango). Playing his
composition is quite fun. Dancing to his music with
the right person is also great. But I digress.


Leopoldo

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:33:06 -0600
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Modern Music, Piazzolla, Pugliese and Sexteto Tango

To my ears, many of the contemporary orchestras draw on the developments
pioneered by Puglise, Piazzolla, and Salgan. I do not as sharply
distinguish between the contributions of these three as others might
because the tango musicians of today have heard all three, and Pugliese's
work took a decidedly Piazzolian turn. (Listen to the CD El Gran Osvaldo
Pugliese en FM Tango.)

The result is that contemporary tango music is not nearly diverse as tango
from the golden age. I would be less inclined to blame Piazzolla for
creating a dead end than to simply think that tango has yet to evolve much
beyond what Piazzolla created because for so many years Piazzolla was
tango.

How does this affect music available for milongas? Late night is a
territory for which the Pugliese orchestra has many excellent and
reasonably high-fidelity recordings. Because most of the post-golden-age
recordings draw heavily from the progressive developments pioneered by the
Pugliese, Piazzolla and Salgan orchestras, their place on the DJs sound
pallette is substantially similar to later Pugliese. Consequently, a DJ
will find it difficult to program a sufficient variety of music for a full
evening without relying heavily on less contemporary recordings.

With best regards,
Steve

Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas
http://www.tejastango.com/

Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:42:43 -0800
From: Larry Duke <auto_d20@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: correction Modern music, Piazzolla, Pugliese and Sexteto Tango

--- astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP> wrote:

>
> If you want a new young orchestra who plays
> Piazzolla and also other things,
> and is still danceable too and sounds authentic
> enough, buy Sexteto Sur.
>

I believe that Sexteto Sur has 2 CDs that were
recorded in Japan, but does anyone know where they are sold?

Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:18:32 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: correction Modern music, Piazzolla, Pugliese and Sexteto Tango

> > If you want a new young orchestra who plays
> > Piazzolla and also other things,
> > and is still danceable too and sounds authentic
> > enough, buy Sexteto Sur.
> >
>
> I believe that Sexteto Sur has 2 CDs that were
> recorded in Japan, but does anyone know where they are sold?

Yes ! I have been through extended research for Steve de Tejas a while ago,
since he could not just walk own the street like me to pick it up.
You can buy at least one of them in Argentina (try tangostore.com) or search
it has an English version, and put in "SUR" ONLY into the search function.
This is the trick, took me checking out about 20 different websites for
this. The second CD is not yet sold in Tokyo, but in BsAs. For more details,
write to Steve, he probably has the exact URL somewhere that I can't find in
a hurry.
I love that CD, am listening to it now. Talk about HiFi, maaaan, best I ever
heard. Naturally, this is new stuff. The younger bandeonist is really cute,
long blonde curls, saw him in a concert.

Astrid

>
>
>

Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 14:41:18 -0500
From: Bibi Wong <bibibwong@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: modern music

<that want to take the Argentine out of Argentine tango by playing music
that would never be heard at a milonga in BA>
May be the originaly author to that comment did not go to ALL the milongas
in Bs As., and stay the ENTIRE evening/morning. the dance crowd changes as
the evening progresses.

Unless I turn insane, I did hear modern music in Bs As MORE than once, and
sometimes at well known milongas.

Men no longer wear jackets, ladies no longer wear skirts/dress.

Lifestyle changes, things change....

Bibi

Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 21:49:01 +0200
From: Christian Lüthen <christian.luethen@GMX.NET>
Subject: Re: modern music

On 30 Jun 2003 at 14:41, Bibi Wong wrote:

> Unless I turn insane, I did hear modern music in Bs As MORE than once,
> and sometimes at well known milongas.

"La Cathedral" > "Canning" > "the rest"!

Yessss, there's modern tango in Bs.As. ... more an more! :-)

> Men no longer wear jackets, ladies no longer wear skirts/dress.

Also depending on the salon!

> Lifestyle changes, things change....

You're so true, baby ... as allways! [thought you'd be down here in
NL for the following week ... meet you at last at New Year's! :) ]

Greetz
Christian
christian@eTanguero.net
http://www.eTanguero.net/

Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2003 17:08:17 -0400
From: Alan McPherron <mcph+@PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: modern music

On Mon, 30 Jun 2003, Bibi Wong wrote:

> ...
> Men no longer wear jackets, ladies no longer wear skirts/dress.
> Bibi

They still do at Lo de Celia.
Alan, Tangueros Unidos de Pittsburgh

Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:27:21 -0400
From: A Coleman <gurps_npc@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: modern music

There is nothing wrong with dancing tango non-traditional music. It is
still tango. There is no law, rule, or other requirement that says x is
allowed y is not allowed.

Tango is an art form, and just as Non-argentinians can dance Tango, even if
their skin is not the a color found in argentina, even if their moves are
rarely found in Argentina, you can dance Tango to non-traditional music.

Art is an emotional thing, not a rules thing. If the emotion is similar,
the steps are similar, if people can look at you and say, I think he is
dancing Argentine Tango, then guess what, he is dancing argentine tango.
Even if it is to Led Zepplin. (though frankly, I would not think Zepplin is
the way to go.)

There are two kinds of art forms: Living and Dead. The dead forms do not
change. Everything conforms to a set rules, with no additions. The living
ones change. New steps are created, new music is danced to, new feelings
are woven into the tapestry we call tango.

You may be able to dance the steps to the right moves, but if Tango can not
add new moves, new thoughts, new emotions, and yes new music, then Tango is
dead for you. The Tango I dance and see danced in New York is a living,
breathing thing, full of change. We dance to the old stuff, but we also
dance to Gotan, to strange Waltzs, to new music.

If you do not think this is so, then my concept of Tango is so different
than yours, that I would feel safe to say that we are not dancing the same
dance. If you want to be an arrogant person and claim I dancing New York
Tango, not Argentine Tango, go ahea. I will not care. And neither will
quite a few other people. But heed my warning: If I were you I would be
quite about your prejudices. If by some chance you run a milonga, take care
or someday you may find yourself in with 10 people instead of 200. And 5 of
those people would be beginners that we will steal away from you when they
see that we can not only do everything you can and enoy the same songs, but
can ALSO do a hundred wonderful steps that you refuse to learn, and have so
much more wonderfull music that we never repeat it day after day, with each
song being of the finest quality and no fillers.

MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*

Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 12:14:35 -0700
From: Elemer Dubrovay <dubrovay@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: modern music

On Tue, 1 Jul 2003 13:27:21 -0400 A Coleman <gurps_npc@HOTMAIL.COM>
writes:

> There is nothing wrong with dancing tango nontraditional music. It
> is
> still tango. There is no law, rule, or other requirement that says
> x is
> allowed y is not allowed.
>
> Tango is an art form, and just as Non-argentinians can dance Tango,
> even if
> their skin is not the a color found in Argentina, even if their
> moves are
> rarely found in Argentina, you can dance Tango to nontraditional
> music.

This must be a joke, if is not, I feel sorry for the ones that don't know
the difference and call Tango that type of dancing, it should be easy to
find another name for it


-You may be able to dance the steps to the right moves, but if Tango can
not
-add new moves, new thoughts, new emotions, and yes new music, then Tango
is
-dead for you.


I don't think Tango is dead, please compare the music from:
Quinteto Criollo El Aleman 1913
Quinteto Criollo Tano Genaro 1914
with the new Tangos, also compare the dancing from those times found in
old movies and the 1950's dancing, with the dancing on the movie The
Tango Lesson or the dancing in the Buenos Aires
Milongas that now is mostly close Embrace or Milonguero style.

Please dance any way you want but find a new name for the new dance or
learn how to dance
the Tango Argentino and listen to the new orchestras in your next trip to
Buenos Aires.

Elemer in Redmond

PS. What kind of skin color they have in Argentina?

Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 12:44:51 -0400
From: A Coleman <gurps_npc@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Modern Music

Two replies:

>>Tango is an art form, and just as Non-argentinians can dance Tango,
>>even if
>>their skin is not the a color found in Argentina, even if their
>>moves are
>>rarely found in Argentina, you can dance Tango to nontraditional
>>music.

>This must be a joke, if is not, I feel sorry for the ones that don't know
>the difference and call Tango that type of dancing, it should be easy to
>find another name for it

I was not making a joke, I was intentionally insulting those people. You
are not the King of Tango, Tango has no ruler. For you to rule about what
music is or is not OK to dance Tango style to is JUST as prejudiced and just
as evil as if you were to say " I am sorry, but you all you asians can not
technically dance Argentine Tango, because there are no Argentinean Asians.
When you dance, it will be called Asian Tango."

Such a comment would be incredibly rude, and SO IS YOUR COMMENT ABOUT MUSIC.

The style of dance is the style of dance. It can be done to any music, by
any person, it is not restricted to the specific style of music or to the
specific races that did it originally.

>You seemed to have missed our point. I thought we were talking about
>learning
>a particular dance, not just the act of dancing. I don't disagree with any
>of
>your sentiments but why bother to distinguish one dance from the other if
>you
>don't accept each one's boundaries (including it's musical roots)? Isn't
>that
>what separates one from the other?
>There is nothing imperious about what we are saying. Certainly not as
>imperious as declaring that it is okay to dance tango to any music,
>especially when
>you are not even from the same culture. If anything we are leaving our own
>cultural prejudices behind and accepting theirs.

Because we have not missed the point, you have. You are WRONG, we are not
talking about learning a particular dance. Pretty much everyone here has
been dancing it for a year or more, we already know how to do it. We might
be taking lessons to learn how to do it better, but we can easily recognize
Argentine Tango and tell it apart from International Tango, or other
varieties.

We are talking about DOING a particular style of dance.

Once we can successfully do it to the traditional standards, then we are
allowed to expand upon it, adding new concepts to it. The Boundaries that
you think are a solid steel cage are instead flexible borders that expand
when we push them. What separates the various dances is not a solid rule X
is Argentine Tango, Y is International Tango, Z is Argentine Waltz, but
instead a more ephemeral atmosphere, a gaseous boundary that can hold.

And you ARE being imperious. You prove it when you say that we are not from
the "same culture".
Wrong. We are from the same culture. It is called the Culture of Argentine
Tango Dancers. Argentineans that do not dance tango (Shocking isn't it?)
have NO right to talk about what is or is not Tango. Similarly, anyone that
dances Tango regularly and can be recognized by their first name at a
milonga is part of the relevant Culture of Argentine Tango. Yes that
culture grew out of the original Argentinean culture, but it has LONG since
become a culture of it's own. Or are you willing to have non-tango dancers
that happen to be from Argentina tell you what is and what is not acceptable
to dance?

We are Argentinean Tango Dancers, even if we were born in Japan, or New
York, or Istanbul, have no other connection to Argentina and have never been
there. It is OUR culture, not yours, and you can not tell us mere peons
what is or is not OK.

If you wish to say that what we are doing is not "classic" style Argentine
Tango, fine. The classic style is a dead thing that by definition can not
change and grow with the new modern moves and music.

But you will not make that claim. Why? Because if you say we are not
dancing "Classic Argentine Tango", no one will ask you how they should
dance. But if you try and tell an ignorant or easily manipulated person
that they are not dancing "Argentine Tango", they will do what you want them
to.

Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2003 18:06:19 -0700
From: Farkyu Uptabut <farkyu_uptabut@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Modern Music

Dear Mr. A,

Everyone knows you are free to dance tango steps to any music you like, and
even
though it is silly, to say that you are dancing Argentine tango, and
certainly free
to write all sorts of silly things on the tango list. But to insult Asians,
Argentines,
and peoples of color based on racial codes as you have done - well that
seems to
me way beyond the bounds, and I hope that someone will have the authority to
banish these racial insults from the list, whether you are joking or not, if
you do
not have the decency to gag yourself, but indeed you say openly that you
are deliberately insulting these people.

Regards,
Farqyu

>From: A Coleman <gurps_npc@HOTMAIL.COM>
>
>>>Tango is an art form, and just as Non-argentinians can dance Tango,
>>>even if
>>>their skin is not the a color found in Argentina, even if their
>>>moves are
>>>rarely found in Argentina, you can dance Tango to nontraditional
>>>music.
>
>
>>This must be a joke, if is not, I feel sorry for the ones that don't know
>>the difference and call Tango that type of dancing, it should be easy to
>>find another name for it
>
>I was not making a joke, I was intentionally insulting those people. You
>are not the King of Tango, Tango has no ruler. For you to rule about what
>music is or is not OK to dance Tango style to is JUST as prejudiced and
>just
>as evil as if you were to say " I am sorry, but you all you asians can not
>technically dance Argentine Tango, because there are no Argentinean Asians.
> When you dance, it will be called Asian Tango."