4057 Ragtime and tango
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 13:16:42 -0000
From: John Ward <johnofbristol@TISCALI.CO.UK>
Subject: Ragtime and tango
I recently acquired the CD "Rags and Tangos" (Decca 476 2445). It is an Australian record, but I got it from US Amazon. All the numbers are =
piano solos played by Joshua Rifkin, best known for his interpretation of Scott Joplin.
What makes it relevant to this list are the tangos composed by Ernesto Nazareth of Rio de Janeiro. "Vitorioso", composed in 1912, sounds =
nothing like the oldest Argentine tango recording I have, which is Firpo's "La Gaucha Manuela", also of 1912. This is Juan Maglio's =
recording, on "La Cumparsita" (BMT 022).
Can anyone comment on early non-Argentine tangos? Has anyone reissued any early European tangos, particularly those described by Gladys =
Beattie Crozier in 1913?
Anyone interested only in tango and nothing else (and there's nothing wrong with that) can stop reading now and go on to the next post. =
Otherwise:
One of Nazareth's tunes is not a tango but a choro. I had never heard of this rhythm before. It is called "Apanhei-te, Cavaquinho". It's one of =
those tunes that everyone knows. I had always assumed it was one of those early 20th century northern-hemisphere novelty piano numbers such =
as "Kitten on the Keys" or "Canadian Capers"; but here it is, genuine Latin American.
Two tangos are described as "tango brasiliero". In 1914 Vernon Castle used "tango brasilienne" as an alternative name for the maxixe "up to =
the time of writing this, the latest ballroom dance". PJS Richardson said the maxixe was introduced into London in 1905 by Camille de Rhynal; =
and an updated version, now called the samba, came to Paris in 1931. In his description of maxixe steps, Castle mentions the Corta Jaca, which =
is nothing like the figure of that name used in the ballroom samba today (I have never learned authentic Brazilian samba).
A "maxixa" can be heard on "Bandoneon Pure" by Rene Marino Rivero (Smithsonian Folkways SF 40431), and several "zambas" on "Folklore for =
Export" by Hugo Diaz (CDL 13344).
John Ward
Bristol, UK
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 22:43:58 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Ragtime and tango
Can anyone comment on early non-Argentine tangos?
The famous tango "Jealousy"(Celos), played on the violin, was composed by
the Dane Jacob Gade in the 1920ies. They say that it's title had inspired
the melody. He was on leave in Christiania, near a windmill far from the
city, when he read on a paper that a man had murdered his wife because of
jealousy.
https://www.todotango.com/English/biblioteca/CRONICAS/jgade_creador_celos.asp
Has anyone reissued any early European tangos
"Jealousy" can be heard in the movie "The man who cried" by Sally Potter,
the director of "Tango lesson". In this case the violin is played by Vasko
Vassilev.
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 10:26:46 -0500
From: Richard Lipkin <rlipkin@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Ragtime and tango
Dear John and The List,
Brazilian music is another love of mine. So what may be off-topic for
others is fine with me.
In the 1980s, Arthur Moreira Lima recorded a series of Brazilian
tangos, waltzes and other tempos - most by Nazareth. They were later
re-issued on two Pro-Arte cds. The melodies are beautiful but the
rhythms not for dancing.
You mention the song Apanhei-te Cavaquinho as a tango. It is
classified in this cd as a polka.
Given the early date of these compositions, one can say that Nazareth
could call his pieces tangos or any other name he wished. They belong
rightfully in the choro genre.
I found an informative web site on choro:
https://www.boukas.com/jjgarticles/jjg899.html.
One quote, "Nazareth was a respected serious urban composer whose
large success owed to a Euro-elite who shunned the sensual
Afro-Brazilian flair. Nazareth cleverly avoided this stigma by
assigning to such works the less controversial subtitle Tango
Brasileiro. In reality, these pieces were not tangos, but the essence
of a truly Brazilian national music."
Regards,
Richard
www.newyorktango.com
On 2/18/06, John Ward <johnofbristol@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> I recently acquired the CD "Rags and Tangos" (Decca 476 2445). It is an Australian record, but I got it from US Amazon. All the numbers are piano so=
los played by Joshua Rifkin, best known for his interpretation of Scott Joplin.
>
> What makes it relevant to this list are the tangos composed by Ernesto Nazareth of Rio de Janeiro. "Vitorioso", composed in 1912, sounds nothing lik=
e the oldest Argentine tango recording I have, which is Firpo's "La Gaucha Manuela", also of 1912. This is Juan Maglio's recording, on "La Cumparsita=
" (BMT 022).
>
> Can anyone comment on early non-Argentine tangos? Has anyone reissued any early European tangos, particularly those described by Gladys Beattie Croz=
ier in 1913?
>
> Anyone interested only in tango and nothing else (and there's nothing wrong with that) can stop reading now and go on to the next post. Otherwise:
>
> One of Nazareth's tunes is not a tango but a choro. I had never heard of this rhythm before. It is called "Apanhei-te, Cavaquinho". It's one of thos=
e tunes that everyone knows. I had always assumed it was one of those early 20th century northern-hemisphere novelty piano numbers such as "Kitten on =
the Keys" or "Canadian Capers"; but here it is, genuine Latin American.
>
> Two tangos are described as "tango brasiliero". In 1914 Vernon Castle used "tango brasilienne" as an alternative name for the maxixe "up to the time=
of writing this, the latest ballroom dance". PJS Richardson said the maxixe was introduced into London in 1905 by Camille de Rhynal; and an updated v=
ersion, now called the samba, came to Paris in 1931. In his description of maxixe steps, Castle mentions the Corta Jaca, which is nothing like the fig=
ure of that name used in the ballroom samba today (I have never learned authentic Brazilian samba).
>
> A "maxixa" can be heard on "Bandoneon Pure" by Rene Marino Rivero (Smithsonian Folkways SF 40431), and several "zambas" on "Folklore for Export" by =
Hugo Diaz (CDL 13344).
>
> John Ward
> Bristol, UK
>
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:13:07 -0700
From: Bruno Romero <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Ragtime and tango
FYI, an article I translated hastily about Tango Brasileiro.
Source: Nestor Ortiz Oderigo, Latitudes Africanas del Tango, published in
the newspaper "La Opinion" Buenos Aires September 28th, 1980.
Tango Brasileiro:
In Brasil the tango or tanguinho is judged as derived of the Tangana rhythm
or Habanera mixed indeed with ingredients from the Polka and Chotis. After
evolutions and variations, characteristic of any popular music, the tango
brasileiro was born. Other amalgamations of the habanera gave birth to the
Brazilian popular dance called "The Maxixe".
Batista Siqueira in his work "Tres vultos historicos de musica brasileira"
(Three historic bundles of brazilian music) points out that the musician
Henriques Alvez de Mesquita (1830 - 1906) was the first person to come up
with the name Tango Brasileiro to the amalgamation of the Habanera, Polka,
and Chotis.
On a separate note, the musician Ernesto Nazareth considered for long time
as the creator of Tango Brasileiro is recognized as the more refined stylist
in this genre. He took Tango Brasileiro to the most extended corners of
technical and esthetical possibilities. In 1879 Nazareth signed one his
compositions called "Brujeiro" as Tango.
In 1890 the musician Alexander Levy (1864 - 1892) composed the famous Tango
Brasileiro, which sums up the influence of the habanera in stylized form.
Nestor Ortiz Oderigo adds that there is a familiar air between the Brazilian
Choros Quartets and the Argentinean Tango Trios and Quartets.
Example of Tango trio, in 1908 at the establishment called "The Velodromo"
in Palermo we have Roberto Firpo (piano) with Alcides Palavecino (violin)
and Carlos Bazan (clarinet).
I think that Firpo's earlier compositions would have been more
representative of early tangos, which sounded more like ragtimes or
cakewalks, such as the case of the music by the tango and milonga composer
Manuel O. Campoamor nicknamed "El Negro".
Best regards,
Bruno
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 11:13:08 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@TANGO.ORG>
Subject: Re: Ragtime and tango
In 1980 I lived for a year in Sao Paulo. Two of the most special
musical experiences was attending a traditional Samba Club, and
watching people dance to Choro at the "Clube dos Arquitetos".
My memory is unclear, but I remember that Choro band had 4
instruments, including quica (the squeeky-sound), flute, guitar,
cavaquinho (like a ukelele... portuguese sailors brought this
instrument to Hawaii). The dancers were very close, the music
cheerful and fast like a milonga. If I recall the dancing included
lunges or samba-like movements. I really wish I had bothered to learn
it.
The Maxixe is commonly danced by vintage ballroom dancers in the US,
who have a choreography from Vernon & Irene Castles. One of the
characteristic moves is to roll together in close embrace while
holding the hands over the head... sort of a samba-esque tummy roll.
However, I've been told that the Maxixe is an improvised ballroom
dance, and that it may be possible to find older people who know this
dance... supposedly in Sao Luis, in the North of Brasil.
I really like the older samba forms.
On Feb 18, 2006, at 6:16 AM, John Ward wrote:
>
> One of Nazareth's tunes is not a tango but a choro. I had never
> heard of this rhythm before. It is called "Apanhei-te, Cavaquinho".
> It's one of those tunes that everyone knows. I had always assumed
> it was one of those early 20th century northern-hemisphere novelty
> piano numbers such as "Kitten on the Keys" or "Canadian Capers";
> but here it is, genuine Latin American.
>
> Two tangos are described as "tango brasiliero". In 1914 Vernon
> Castle used "tango brasilienne" as an alternative name for the
> maxixe "up to the time of writing this, the latest ballroom dance".
> PJS Richardson said the maxixe was introduced into London in 1905
> by Camille de Rhynal; and an updated version, now called the samba,
> came to Paris in 1931. In his description of maxixe steps, Castle
> mentions the Corta Jaca, which is nothing like the figure of that
> name used in the ballroom samba today (I have never learned
> authentic Brazilian samba).
>
> John Ward
> Bristol, UK
>
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 03:09:01 -0600
From: pablo gracia <tangopablo@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Ragtime and tango
Dear Jan,
As far as I know the only person to have a musicology document and original recording of ragtime tango (with its origine in Buenos Aires) is
Ruben "Milonga" : rubenmilonga@uolsinectis.com.ar
He will be in NY with this material from March 10-20.
The material that he has is historical and original.
Pablo
Ms Jan Pearce <jan_gilbert_pearce@YAHOO.COM> escribis:
While we are on the subject of Ragtime tango, can
anyone recommend a teacher (or teachers) whose
specialty is Ragtime tango?
Jan Pearce
Berea, KY
--- Tom Stermitz wrote:
> In 1980 I lived for a year in Sao Paulo. Two of the
> most special
> musical experiences was attending a traditional
> Samba Club, and
> watching people dance to Choro at the "Clube dos
> Arquitetos".
>
> My memory is unclear, but I remember that Choro band
> had 4
> instruments, including quica (the squeeky-sound),
> flute, guitar,
> cavaquinho (like a ukelele... portuguese sailors
> brought this
> instrument to Hawaii). The dancers were very close,
> the music
> cheerful and fast like a milonga. If I recall the
> dancing included
> lunges or samba-like movements. I really wish I had
> bothered to learn
> it.
>
>
> The Maxixe is commonly danced by vintage ballroom
> dancers in the US,
> who have a choreography from Vernon & Irene Castles.
> One of the
> characteristic moves is to roll together in close
> embrace while
> holding the hands over the head... sort of a
> samba-esque tummy roll.
> However, I've been told that the Maxixe is an
> improvised ballroom
> dance, and that it may be possible to find older
> people who know this
> dance... supposedly in Sao Luis, in the North of
> Brasil.
>
> I really like the older samba forms.
>
>
> On Feb 18, 2006, at 6:16 AM, John Ward wrote:
>
> >
> > One of Nazareth's tunes is not a tango but a
> choro. I had never
> > heard of this rhythm before. It is called
> "Apanhei-te, Cavaquinho".
> > It's one of those tunes that everyone knows. I had
> always assumed
> > it was one of those early 20th century
> northern-hemisphere novelty
> > piano numbers such as "Kitten on the Keys" or
> "Canadian Capers";
> > but here it is, genuine Latin American.
> >
> > Two tangos are described as "tango brasiliero". In
> 1914 Vernon
> > Castle used "tango brasilienne" as an alternative
> name for the
> > maxixe "up to the time of writing this, the latest
> ballroom dance".
> > PJS Richardson said the maxixe was introduced into
> London in 1905
> > by Camille de Rhynal; and an updated version, now
> called the samba,
> > came to Paris in 1931. In his description of
> maxixe steps, Castle
> > mentions the Corta Jaca, which is nothing like the
> figure of that
> > name used in the ballroom samba today (I have
> never learned
> > authentic Brazilian samba).
> >
> > John Ward
> > Bristol, UK
> >
>
Correo Yahoo!
Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam !gratis!
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2006 11:02:28 -0500
From: jackie ling wong <jackie.wong@VERIZON.NET>
Subject: Re: Ragtime and tango
hi jan,
you may want to contact bill matthiesen and richard powers. (i have
cc:ed them through this email)
bill lives in massachusetts has done some research on this very topic.
follow this link to his article
https://tangopulse.net/argentine_tango_history_by_b.htm
and richard powers is a dance historian and teaches at stanford
university.
good luck
jackie
www.tangopulse.net
On Mar 6, 2006, at 2:46 AM, Ms Jan Pearce wrote:
While we are on the subject of Ragtime tango, can
anyone recommend a teacher (or teachers) whose
specialty is Ragtime tango?
Jan Pearce
Berea, KY
--- Tom Stermitz <stermitz@TANGO.ORG> wrote:
> In 1980 I lived for a year in Sao Paulo. Two of the
> most special
> musical experiences was attending a traditional
> Samba Club, and
> watching people dance to Choro at the "Clube dos
> Arquitetos".
>
> My memory is unclear, but I remember that Choro band
> had 4
> instruments, including quica (the squeeky-sound),
> flute, guitar,
> cavaquinho (like a ukelele... portuguese sailors
> brought this
> instrument to Hawaii). The dancers were very close,
> the music
> cheerful and fast like a milonga. If I recall the
> dancing included
> lunges or samba-like movements. I really wish I had
> bothered to learn
> it.
>
>
> The Maxixe is commonly danced by vintage ballroom
> dancers in the US,
> who have a choreography from Vernon & Irene Castles.
> One of the
> characteristic moves is to roll together in close
> embrace while
> holding the hands over the head... sort of a
> samba-esque tummy roll.
> However, I've been told that the Maxixe is an
> improvised ballroom
> dance, and that it may be possible to find older
> people who know this
> dance... supposedly in Sao Luis, in the North of
> Brasil.
>
> I really like the older samba forms.
>
>
> On Feb 18, 2006, at 6:16 AM, John Ward wrote:
>
>>
>> One of Nazareth's tunes is not a tango but a
> choro. I had never
>> heard of this rhythm before. It is called
> "Apanhei-te, Cavaquinho".
>> It's one of those tunes that everyone knows. I had
> always assumed
>> it was one of those early 20th century
> northern-hemisphere novelty
>> piano numbers such as "Kitten on the Keys" or
> "Canadian Capers";
>> but here it is, genuine Latin American.
>>
>> Two tangos are described as "tango brasiliero". In
> 1914 Vernon
>> Castle used "tango brasilienne" as an alternative
> name for the
>> maxixe "up to the time of writing this, the latest
> ballroom dance".
>> PJS Richardson said the maxixe was introduced into
> London in 1905
>> by Camille de Rhynal; and an updated version, now
> called the samba,
>> came to Paris in 1931. In his description of
> maxixe steps, Castle
>> mentions the Corta Jaca, which is nothing like the
> figure of that
>> name used in the ballroom samba today (I have
> never learned
>> authentic Brazilian samba).
>>
>> John Ward
>> Bristol, UK
>>
>
Date: Tue, 7 Mar 2006 01:07:30 -0700
From: Bruno Romero <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Ragtime and tango
Tangos in the ragtime category:
My 2 cents:
- By Manuel O. Campoamor "El Negro": "La Franela" available in
www.todotango.com
- By Casimiro Alcorta "El Negro Casimiro": "Cara Sucia" played by Francisco
Canaro.
- By Vicente Greco: "El Perverso" played by small and big music boxes or
player pianos (pianolas).
Ragtime tangos might be equivalent to tangos with swing, or jazzy tangos.
Following the ragtime tangos the tango music began to slow down quite a bit.
Bruno
