5840 Tanguera/o occupation?
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:56:58 +1100
From: Roger Edgecombe <edgecombe_r@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
I said "There are many IT nerds and medical doctors in tango.".
She said "Rubbish".
The debate has degenerated from there.
The aim is to win the argument, of course. Nothing to do with
statistical validity. Bribery is an option.....
So - what broadly speaking - is your occupation (in the case of IT nerds
and doctors, then friend of a friend is quite acceptable).
It's always been my feeling that tango would appeal to organic chemists
- but since I don't know of a single such tango addict, I'm coming,
grudgingly, to accept that I may be on a loser there.
rde
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 22:28:02 -0500
From: sl@stevelittler.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: Roger Edgecombe <edgecombe_r@optusnet.com.au>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
Yes. I'm in IT and all the guys I know in Tango are pretty much all IT,
Math Professors, or MD. The women are all PHD Science, Language or in
Medical/Health.
I like the fact that Tango has the irresistible power to drag me away
from the computer to go interact with humans.
El Stevito de Gainesville
Quoting Roger Edgecombe <edgecombe_r@optusnet.com.au>:
> I said "There are many IT nerds and medical doctors in tango.".
> She said "Rubbish".
>
> The debate has degenerated from there.
>
> The aim is to win the argument, of course. Nothing to do with
> statistical validity. Bribery is an option.....
>
> So - what broadly speaking - is your occupation (in the case of IT nerds
> and doctors, then friend of a friend is quite acceptable).
>
> It's always been my feeling that tango would appeal to organic chemists
> - but since I don't know of a single such tango addict, I'm coming,
> grudgingly, to accept that I may be on a loser there.
>
> rde
>
>
>
>
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 14:55:10 +1100
From: Myk Dowling <politas@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
sl@stevelittler.com wrote:
> Yes. I'm in IT and all the guys I know in Tango are pretty much all IT,
> Math Professors, or MD. The women are all PHD Science, Language or in
> Medical/Health.
>
> I like the fact that Tango has the irresistible power to drag me away
> from the computer to go interact with humans.
>
> El Stevito de Gainesville
>
> Quoting Roger Edgecombe <edgecombe_r@optusnet.com.au>:
>
>
>> I said "There are many IT nerds and medical doctors in tango.".
>> She said "Rubbish".
>>
>> The debate has degenerated from there.
>>
>> The aim is to win the argument, of course. Nothing to do with
>> statistical validity. Bribery is an option.....
>>
>> So - what broadly speaking - is your occupation (in the case of IT nerds
>> and doctors, then friend of a friend is quite acceptable).
>>
Another IT Geek here, and my girlfriend is a librarian. I know at least
one medical doctor who does tango here in Canberra, and there are many
other IT geeks. I think tango appeals to well-educated and thoughtful
people.
Myk,
in Canberra
Date: Sun, 8 Nov 2009 19:58:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: Tango-l@mit.edu
> From: Roger Edgecombe <edgecombe_r@optusnet.com.au>
>
> I said "There are many IT nerds and medical doctors in tango.".
> She said "Rubbish".
>
This?is an interesting subject that I've often thought about.
I can only speak for my own community, and certainly not Argentina where
I have a different impression, but I definitely agree with your statement.
I know many IT nerds who are tango addicts as well as quite a few medical
doctors, including psychologists and psychiatrists.?I'm also amazed at the
number of PhDs and university professors. Tango here is full of well-educated
people, career-oriented and often in high-level, well-paid, stressful occupations.
I'm also involved in the Ballroom community and it definitely isn't the same.
I have no explanation. Btw, I'm a retired Civil Engineer.
Jack??
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 18:33:43 +1000
From: "Anton Stanley" <anton@alidas.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
In a recent post:
> " Tango here is full of well-educated people, career-oriented and often in
high-level, well-paid, stressful occupations."
Maybe more artists and musicians and a substantial infusion of commoner
blood may bring balance to the professionals, academians and intelligencia
who in my experience, have been disciplined to avoid displays of emotion.
Possibly, then we may get closer to replicating BA tango.
It must be awfully daunting to continually rub shoulders with the upper
echelons of society when you're just ordinary. Could be why so many
beginners drift. Rather than the challenges of the dance.
Just an ordinary Joe's opinion.
Anton
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 22:27:28 +1100
From: "Vince Bagusauskas" <vytis@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Only a regular engineer here.
But yes many IT types in tango, and university types doing/done doctorates
in physiology/linguistics/robotics. Might be something to do with a
comfortable lifestyle and free time on hand?
Picture a rock and roller, or a salsa dancer. Don't see many in tango. Nor
do I recall meeting any people that work irregular shift hours like in the
military doing tango.
Met a botanist once doing tango but never an organic chemist.
Vince
Date: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:50:42 +0100
From: Ecsedy ?ron <aron@milonga.hu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: Tango-L <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>
I run a dancestudio for several years now with many styles of dancing
(social and stage), but about 99% of the clientele are white collar
workers, many with more than one university degree, well over 50%
engineers, IT types, or in real science (this is a well known phenomenon
among teachers as well). In a country where 20% claims to speak any
other foreign language at some level, well over 80% of the dancer types
speak English at conversation level.
My theory: the more educated you are, the more open you are to
non-current stuff. Couple dancing and most dances at a danceschool are
not part of the current popular culture. People with less education are
usually too wound up in current things, currently popular ways of
spending their free time, that in the Western world they don't end up
learning tango. There are some areas where you can see that current and
older things bleed into eachother (like salsa), there the clientele is
also more varied, but in a place like Hungary where there is no latino
population at all, the 'lower class' (as they are usually handled) will
abandon most genres as they feel that this is not their social element.
Obviously, at places where there is an indigenious population where
(couple) dancing is part of their culture, it is more likely to have
different echelons side-by-side, or at least having their own parties.
In case of tango, I can only imagine this in South America (which
observation tends to support). Nevertheless, some great artists or
teachers may have a 'low social status' background and be successful
nevertheless (we have a several times champion international latin who
is a painter (apartments), or a world class modern jazzballet dancer and
choreographer who started out as a taxi driver, one of the best swing
dancers and also swing DJs in Hungary is a plumber, a well known
professional - stage - tango dancer is an active tram driver).
Cheers,
Aron
--
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Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 01:30:07 +1100
From: Myk Dowling <politas@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Vince Bagusauskas wrote:
> Picture a rock and roller, or a salsa dancer. Don't see many in tango. Nor
> do I recall meeting any people that work irregular shift hours like in the
> military doing tango.
You've met me. I work shift hours. Not sure what you mean by "irregular"
though. My shift hours are extremely regular, though disconnected from
the standard week in their regularity, which makes it difficult for
people who only see me occasionally to see the regularity. And we have
at least one other shift worker (who has far more irregular shifts than
I do) dancing tango in Canberra, who you also know.
Myk,
in Canberra
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 06:37:10 -0800 (PST)
From: RonTango <rontango@rocketmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
----- Original Message ----
>
> So - what broadly speaking - is your occupation (in the case of IT nerds
> and doctors, then friend of a friend is quite acceptable).
>
I'm a biologist/statistician by day. I live in a university community of 100,000 so most of our tango students are university students, faculty, and researchers. Most others are in white-collar professions where at least a bachelor's degree is needed, but we get a lot of people in tango with more than a bachelor's degree. However, this distribution of educational levels exists in the ballroom dance and folk dance communities here too. Salsa and swing are younger but all university affiliated. The only dance group that is blue collar here is country & western.
I think that if you don't have a university it is difficult for a city of 100,000 to establish a tango community. I'd be interested in hearing about exceptions.
Ron
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 01:55:37 +1100
From: tony parkes <macromagix@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
<c63a5fe70911090655o7c20673bx8e07b3b1ec91fdcd@mail.gmail.com>
and also in oztralia, i know a recently retired fire fighter ie well
over 60 years.
whilst on duty the shift cycle was two days on, two off then 4 days
off. highly regular in one sense, but still shift work because the
hours varied because the shifts rotated as did the many overtime
calllouts. so vince, you can add firefighters to your list of
irregular tangueros
cheers
tony
On Tue, Nov 10, 2009 at 1:30 AM, Myk Dowling <politas@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Vince Bagusauskas wrote:
> > Picture a rock and roller, or a salsa dancer. ?Don't see many in tango. ?Nor
> > do I recall meeting any people that work irregular shift hours like in the
> > military doing tango.
> You've met me. I work shift hours. Not sure what you mean by "irregular"
> though. My shift hours are extremely regular, though disconnected from
> the standard week in their regularity, which makes it difficult for
> people who only see me occasionally to see the regularity. And we have
> at least one other shift worker (who has far more irregular shifts than
> I do) dancing tango in Canberra, who you also know.
>
> Myk,
> in Canberra
--
cheers
tony
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 07:09:03 +1100
From: "Vince Bagusauskas" <vytis@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Myk said:
> Picture a rock and roller, or a salsa dancer. Don't see many in tango.
> Nor
> do I recall meeting any people that work irregular shift hours like in the
> military doing tango.
You've met me. I work shift hours.
But being an IT person negates that I think. Still in the town of Canberra
with a high percentage of military types and military colleges, I don't seem
to have met any doing tango. This topic got me wondering why: maybe because
a gregarious, can do attitude does not mix well with the of tango? Most of
the tango dancers I have met are reserved and have a calmer nature. Would
that be most peoples experience?
> And we have
at least one other shift worker (who has far more irregular shifts than
I do) dancing tango in Canberra, who you also know.
Possibly, but I do not know to whom you are referring as it was a long time
ago now. I could count very few dancers in Canberra who came from what are
called blue collar jobs. I knew one person employed in a desk job in the
aviation sector in Canberra (but doing university studies in a language) who
has "irregular shift hours" who finds it very difficult to make it to tango
events and thus drifted in to other things too.
Vince
in Melbourne
Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2009 21:53:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
> From: Vince Bagusauskas vytis@hotmail.com
>Still in the town of Canberra
> with a high percentage of military types and military colleges, I don't seem
> to have met any doing tango.? This topic got me wondering why: maybe because
> a gregarious, can do attitude does not mix well with the of tango?? Most of
> the tango dancers I have met are reserved and have a calmer nature.? Would
> that be most peoples experience?
>
I'd agree 100%. In fact, if you could put military and tango together, it would
probably constitute an oxymoron :-)
But I'm sure somebody will prove me wrong.
Jack
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:25:19 +1100
From: "Vince Bagusauskas" <vytis@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Jack said:
>I'd agree 100%. In fact, if you could put military and tango together,
It would probably be like the following:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pojGjRa13uE
Only in Australia...sigh
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:12:23 -0500
From: Sergey Kazachenko <syarzhuk@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: Vince Bagusauskas <vytis@hotmail.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<ebb7980c0911100712o15af1035o628660e4457c6152@mail.gmail.com>
>>I'd agree 100%. In fact, if you could put military and tango together,
>
> It would probably be like the following:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pojGjRa13uE
Oh my god... I did bolt out of ballroom tango after a single class
(hated the way they said the leaders should step - deeply bent knees,
heel forward), but this is quite something. I'd name it martial tango
:)
Sergey
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 17:57:57 +0100
From: ECSEDY ?ron <aron@milonga.hu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: Tango-L <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>
> Oh my god... I did bolt out of ballroom tango after a single class
> (hated the way they said the leaders should step - deeply bent knees,
> heel forward), but this is quite something. I'd name it martial tango
> :)
>
I don't think this performance is so bad, it is just not the tango you
know. Also, this is a group choreography and because it is done by 16-21
year olds it is obviously lacks a certain artistic merit you'd expect
from professional ballroom dancers. Also, as with all synchronous
choreographies, the strong and sudden moves help to create the
'togetherness', which is used widely for formation dancing such as this.
The choreograper did not try to put much fantasy into this dance, but it
is technically well executed. The paso doble style turns and promenade
walks make the whole thing very cheesy and unnatural, but you should
check out some old ballroom videos from the 50s or 60s: now those are
truly hilarious... :D
Cheers,
Aron
--
Ecsedy ?ron
***********
Aron ECSEDY
Tel: +36 20 66-36-006
https://www.milonga.hu/
https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:22:22 +1100
From: Roger Edgecombe <edgecombe_r@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
> I don't think this performance is so bad, it is just not the tango you
> know. Also, this is a group choreography and because it is done by
> 16-21
As I understand it, this is not "group choreography" per se - but a
codified sequence and they are not dancing as a group but competing
against each other - so you just have individual couples doing the same
sequence. It hasn't been choreographed for this event, but is
specified in detail so it is standardised across the country (and
probably further afield as the "New Vogue" style is spread/pushed).
cheers
rde
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 11:42:51 +1000
From: Tango22 <tango22@gmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
> Aron said,
> I don't think this performance is so bad, it is just not the tango you
> know. Also, this is a group choreography....... . formation dancing
> such as this.
> The choreograper did not try to put much fantasy into this dance,
> but it
> is technically well executed.
Yes and no Aron, New Vogue is a peculiarly Australian competitive
genre of dance that emerged out of what was termed "old time" dancing,
some time after the '60's. It was always danced in set rounds and was
often progressive (ie., the ladies moved on to a new partner after a
few bars). Not unlike the European mazurkas, polkas etc. The
choreography for each named dance (eg., Tango Terrific) is established
by competition rules, in advance. The young couples you see here are
competing as individuals, not dancing in a choreographed formation.
I agree with your comments. It is an elegant and musical form of
dance. I am not so arrogant as to laugh at any skillfully performed
dance, even if it is not what I do.
An example sample of 5 New Vogue dances, including Tango Terrific.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ewkPdxmiJc
Oh, and here it is in the traditional social context. Note the band.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xukc_xGGDcI
By the way, our Tango scene has a complete cross section of
professional and socio-economic groups. it is not at all elitist. I
sense that has more to do with the place than the Tango.
Excuse me for getting a bit off-topic
Best wishes,
John
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 20:27:51 -0800 (PST)
From: Jack Dylan <jackdylan007@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
> From: Tango22 <tango22@gmail.com>
>
> Yes and no Aron, New Vogue is a peculiarly Australian competitive?
> genre of dance that emerged out of what was termed "old time" dancing,?
> some time after the '60's.??>
Thanks for your explanation. I've never heard of 'New Vogue Dancing' and,
like Aron, I thought it was a choreographed formation dance.
It also explains Vince's "only in Australia" comment, which puzzled me.
But, yeah, it is a little off-topic for a tango forum, haha.
Jack
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 18:38:29 +1100
From: Roger Edgecombe <edgecombe_r@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
ps: Just to put my earlier "codified" comment into perspective, take a
look at: https://linus.it.uts.edu.au/~don/vogue/terr.html
I believe this is just an explanation of the "Tango Terrific" sequence -
not part of the official specification.
(Labanotation is a system for recording choreography - notably for ballet.)
It does leave one wondering if a leader's subconscious has this order
of complexity bubbling away in its depths during a normal tanda. :)
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2009 10:00:53 +1100
From: "Fran and John Verheul" <verheul@interact.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: "Roger Edgecombe" <edgecombe_r@optusnet.com.au>, <tango-l@mit.edu>
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 1:56 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
>I said "There are many IT nerds and medical doctors in tango.".
> She said "Rubbish".
>
> The debate has degenerated from there.
>
> The aim is to win the argument, of course. Nothing to do with
> statistical validity. Bribery is an option.....
>
> So - what broadly speaking - is your occupation (in the case of IT nerds
> and doctors, then friend of a friend is quite acceptable).
Hi , First post.
I often marvel at the fact that a high level government employee , medical
doctor or artist allow themselves to be pushed around by a gardener or motor
mechanic or housecleaner on the dancefloor, but then "tango" doesnt equate
very well with status in real life.
For the record I am a semi retired security consultant and have heaps of
time to attend milongas. The tanguerra friend that sticks in my mind as the
most passionate and elegant that i spend time with listed her occupation as
"exotic dancer and personal escort". She was rather busy during most
evenings so we danced only in the afternoon in her kitchen.
Tango, scones and tea.
Heaven!
>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:27:33 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation
To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu>
Roger says, "I often marvel at the fact that a high level government employee , medical doctor or artist allow themselves to be pushed around by a gardener or motor mechanic or housecleaner on the dance floor, but then "tango" doesn't equate very well with status in real life."
It always marvels me that eventually somebody notices "something" that is atypical for the general culture to which he/she belongs to.
The traditional milonga is a world of its own,governed by its own codes,secrets and rites: the entrance where you pay the ticket, is frequently separated from the salon by a curtain . This separates the outside from the inside worlds.
As you enter you realize that you are in another place, here everyone adopts the role of "tango dancer". it is like being part of a show, who you really are in the outside world is irrelevant, you are recognized and respected as a tango dancer, nobody will ask you what your occupation is, they come here just to dance.
The tango dancer hangs his uniform at the end of the day,goes home and carefully prepares himself for the new role, his daily life is left behind.
A shower, an elegant suit or a beautiful dress, new shoes and the show starts in this world of postures, gestures, stares and nods.
There is no meaningful conversation, only small talk, it is the embrace, the music and the dance. It is "he" and "she", only at that moment, the rest is irrelevant.
In the USA as soon as you are introduced to somebody else, you are asked what your occupation is, this immediately places you in the social ladder. To do such a thing in Argentina, would be considered bad manners.
If somebody is curious to know what you do, they will ask another person when you are not present but never directly to you or in front of you. Tango in some way reflects that culture.
As to being pushed around by a gardener or a mechanic what about Tango-L?
Have a nice day, Sergio
.
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Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:51:12 -0500
From: Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Tanguera/o occupation?
To: Tango List <tango-l@mit.edu>
I'm an attorney and I know two other attorneys who dance tango in the
Detroit/Ann Arbor area, but of all the local dancers I know, the percentage of
engineering/IT/sciences tango dancers has to be at least 75%.
Fran and John Verheul wrote:
...
>> So - what broadly speaking - is your occupation (in the case of IT nerds
>> and doctors, then friend of a friend is quite acceptable).
--
Carol Ruth Shepherd, Attorney
Arborlaw PLC
https://arborlaw.biz/blog/
734.717.4646 v 734.786.1241 f
