3692 Anonymity
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 13:16:02 +0200
From: Andy <andy.ungureanu@T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject: Anonymity
Christopher L. Everett schrieb:
> Historically, societies which don't honor a persons wish for anonymity
> are repressive. Sometimes, unpopular things must be said, in the face
> of consequences for loved ones, friends and employers. There are lots
> of Tango-L people from East Europe who would understand. For that
> matter, the foundations of this country lie on contributions of rabble
> rousers who hid from public scrutiny.
Well, we should make a difference here. That is one thing to fight
against a comunist regime and to fear for your life and another thing to
talk about tango. Tango is important for us, but not existential.
>
> In the end, it's not the label we slap on the person that counts, but
> their contribution.
It sounds good, but it isn't. If we were in a chat room, were everybody
uses pseudonyms, nobody expects anything else than role playing. But we
are talking about a real thing, with people we could meet in real and
talk or dance with them. I don't have the time to analyse academic point
of views, I want facts and opinions from people who stand for it, who
are responsible for their writing. I want to have the chance to meet
them, see how they dance, talk with them about it, even if it is only a
chance, but one of the 1000+ participants will know that person.
A short contribution in a mailing list is not self explanatory, it is
better to know the (tango) background of the author to understand and
evaluate it. If Sergio should write one day nonsense, I will read it
twice to be sure I understood it and wonder what his point is. If a
"Mr.X" writes nonsense, I will just delete it, it is not worth to spend
the time.
>
> v0orbuwg1l, for all his transgresssions, did do one thing we rarely
> see today: He named what he did wrong and apologized sincerely, showing
> understanding and empathy for Tine.
I believe we read two different postings. For me it was not sincere, it
was ironic.
Cheers
Andy Ungureanu
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 13:37:49 +0200
From: Áron ECSEDY <aron@MILONGA.HU>
Subject: Re: Anonymity
> I believe we read two different postings. For me it was not
> sincere, it was ironic.
He was sincere. I am the one from the 1160 who knows him. He was trying to
make peace, since the reaction he got was a lot harsher than he expected.
Nevertheless, to me it seems that the list (or at least the active posters)
are against anonymity. As such, from now on we can consider it a policy to
warn any posters who do not identify themselves properly to do so or leave.
With this we can make sure we don't rob the time or bandwidth of people
who'd like to read about tango and not the administrational difficulties of
the forum and also that newcomers are aware of list-policy.
I propose that such a warning should be done by all active posters in
private e-mails. That will make it obvious to the anonymus poster that he is
really trespassing.
I think this thread can be ended now.
Best wishes to you all,
Aron
Ecsedy Áron
***********
Aron ECSEDY
Tel: +36 (20) 329 66 99
ICQ# 46386265
https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/
* * * * *
https://www.milonga.hu/
"Follow those who seek the truth.
Run from those who claim to have found it."
"There is more than one way to cook an omlette."
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 11:40:26 -0700
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Anonymity and Cartoons..
Dear Andy and All:
I agree with you on this completely. "Stealth" is not
nice. It is insincere at best and also a total waste
of people's time. It is mostly lies and inventions.
From Andy..
"we are talking about a real thing, with people we
could meet in real and talk or dance with them. I
don't have the time to analyze academic point of
views, I want facts and opinions from people who stand
for it, who are responsible for their writing. I want
to have the chance to meet them, see how they dance,
talk with them about it"
From Derik..
I refuse to talk with a "cartoon character" invented
by someone who I do not know, who does not have enough
respect for this group to identify himself or herself.
This whole idea of anonymous postings is very "Micky
Mouse". It is also very rude. If a person is "shy"
they can send a private E-mail, not a public posting.
I am all for helping them in a positive way, but not
for enabling them to do something which does not work
and sets a very bad precedent.
In a democracy we do not need to "hide out". We need
to stand up and be counted. We are not working inside
a dictatorship here. Every vote counts, but we do
have to identify ourselves to vote. Duplicates are
notb allowed.
PS- I think that Sergio and Aron, Escady are being
gracious to accept this "non person". I would not do
it myself. I would urge them to reconsider, lest a
bad precedent be set. Cartoons are wonderful, but
they are only for fantasy, not for reality. I know, I
produce cartoons for Sesame Street in New York for PBS
(this is brought to you but the number "4"...etc.
etc). I love cartoons, but not here. My opinion.
Thank you.
Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
https://www.rawsonweb.com
--- Andy <andy.ungureanu@T-ONLINE.DE> wrote:
Well, we should make a difference here. That is one
thing to fight against a comunist regime and to fear
for your life and another thing to talk about tango.
Tango is important for us, but not existential.
In the end, it's not the label we slap on the person
that counts, but their contribution. It sounds good,
but it isn't. If we were in a chat room, were
everybody
uses pseudonyms, nobody expects anything else than
role playing. But we are talking about a real thing,
with people we could meet in real and talk or dance
with them. I don't have the time to analyse academic
point of views, I want facts and opinions from people
who stand for it, who are responsible for their
writing. I want to have the chance to meet them, see
how they dance, talk with them about it, even if it is
only a chance, but one of the 1000+ participants will
know that person. A short contribution in a mailing
list is not self explanatory, it is better to know the
(tango) background of the author to understand and
evaluate it. If Sergio should write one day nonsense,
I will read it twice to be sure I understood it and
wonder what his point is. If a "Mr.X" writes nonsense,
I will just delete it, it is not worth to spend the
time.
v0orbuwg1l, for all his transgresssions, did do one
thing we rarely see today: He named what he did wrong
and apologized sincerely, showing understanding and
empathy for Tine. I believe we read two different
postings. For me it was not sincere, it was ironic.
Cheers
Andy Ungureanu
Date: Sat, 13 Aug 2005 20:11:52 -0500
From: Mark Johnson <mark.johnson@RCN.COM>
Subject: Re: Pseudonyms - Anonymity
I have to disagree with you Derik. Everything an individual writes on this
list is their own opinion, what does it matter if someone writes under an
assumed name or alias? You accept at face value that Sergio is Sergio.
What if he's not? Is a use of a shadow name in any way going to change your
stated opinion on a matter? If that opinion, under an alias happens to
agree with you does that then devaluate your opinion?
The term Democracy keeps running around in my head; isn't the corner stone
of Democracy freedom? Having opinion weather under your own name or an
assumed one is just as valid; you are still exercising your freedom of
speech. Yet when I vote my name isn't attached to the ballot. Does that mean
when I exercise my voice it doesn't count?
I value the opinions on the list. And I find is a pity that people are
attacked because they assume that the person stated is someone else. Who
cares? I personally liked the posts that have been appearing. I noticed
that those that attacked this individual because of his/her secret evil
identity were the same ones that disagreed with him. And further that these
individuals, though at times make some great posts, in general seem to stir
more discord than post anything useful.
Other food for thought... It seems that there isn't a week that goes by when
someone doesn't in one form or another attack Alberto Paz. And I read just a
moment ago that some thought that this anonymous individual was Alberto Paz.
I don't find Albertos opinions more or less offensive or abrasive than
others I've read over the past 6 months. And actually now that I think about
it, most of the stories he writes I actually enjoy reading...as apposed to
some of the diatribes I've read here. To those that are not on Albertos list
you may want to join it, some of the stuff is great.
Mark Johnson....or am I?
