5674 arm angle, keith, huck
Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 13:24:39 -0400
From: "Nussbaum, Martin" <mnussbau@law.nyc.gov>
Subject: [Tango-L] arm angle, keith, huck
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Cc: tempehuck@gmail.com
<DDA0C1BA83D32D45ACB965BA82FD81C7055F02DA@LAWMNEXV2.LAW.LOCAL>
I disagree with these guys, especially for social dance. Guys who stick
out their left arm greater than 90 degrees, or 135 as huck suggests,
yikes! , or even wider as I've seen in fashion lately, are an accident
waiting to happen for some unlucky person, like an illegal clothesline
tackle in football, neck high. I think it also look very pretentious,
and should have a little red flag hanging from the wrist, WIDE LOAD.
Why take up more real estate than you need to? keep that damn arm inside
the vehicle, reasonably close to you, no more than 90 degrees, and out
of my face when you spin around.
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 20:24:41 +1000
From: Gary Barnes <garybarn@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] arm angle, keith, huck
To: Tango L <tango-l@mit.edu>
I think we might be having a frame of reference confusion.
Keith said:
> 3 inches lower and they would appear to me to have a little
> humility/modesty.
but Huck said:
> I much prefer the more classic angle of about
> 135 degrees as taught by most Argentines I've taken from.
>
> I try to avoid any angle less than 90 degrees since that turns
> the leader's elbow into a weapon.
and Martin is talking about:
> Guys who stick
> out their left arm greater than 90 degrees, or 135 as huck suggests,
> yikes! , or even wider
I'm not at all sure what each of you means -- especially huck.
Detlef has his _upper_ arm horizontal (at 90? from his body), and his
forearm vertical (at 90? from his upper arm).
If someone has their elbow down lower than that, and keep their
forearm vertical, they take up less space.
Their upper arm might be around 135? from vertical, or around 45?
from their body. Is that what you mean, Huck? This seems to be
equivalent to "3 inches lower". But that pointy elbow is safely
tucked away.
If someone has their upper arm non-vertical, with their hand sticking
out further than their elbow, they will take up more space (and also
punch people). Is that what you mean, Martin?
And if they have their upper arm non-vertical the other way, with
their elbow sticking out further than their hand, they will take up
the same space, but their elbow may poke people. Is that what you
mean, Huck?
When tall guys dance with the position Detlef is in here, in a
crowded milonga, I do feel in danger of getting my neck caught in the
trap! And if they dance like that with a short woman, she looks like
she's been hung out to dry. But neither is the case in the video.
I usually try to have my forearm vertical (ish), and adjust the angle
of my upper arm so its comfortable for my partner and the
spaciousness of the milonga. I do not have a protractor at the
milonga, though.
GB
On 19/06/2009, at 3:24 AM, Nussbaum, Martin wrote:
> I disagree with these guys, especially for social dance. Guys who
> stick
> out their left arm greater than 90 degrees, or 135 as huck suggests,
> yikes! , or even wider as I've seen in fashion lately, are an
> accident
> waiting to happen for some unlucky person, like an illegal clothesline
> tackle in football, neck high. I think it also look very pretentious,
> and should have a little red flag hanging from the wrist, WIDE LOAD.
> Why take up more real estate than you need to? keep that damn arm
> inside
> the vehicle, reasonably close to you, no more than 90 degrees, and out
> of my face when you spin around.
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 09:18:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] arm angle, keith, huck
My two cents worth as a follower.
The man's left arm at a 90 degree angle up can give the follower a nice point of contact (full forearm). Feels nice for close-embrace.
When I lead, I prefer to keep my left arm out greater than 90 degrees to keep both my and my partner's shoulders long. As a follower, that is one thing I simply have to have - a long right shoulder. Anything less than a 90 degree angle of the man's left arm shortens my right shoulder and feels uncomfortable.
When a man has a greater than 90 degree angle and at his shoulder level, then it's easier for me to do backward ochos to the man's right or to do similar movements. I'm able to transmit the energy coming from his left arm into my hips more easily.
Trini de Pittsburgh
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:56:27 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] arm angle, keith, huck
To: "tango-l@mit.edu" <tango-l@mit.edu>
> The man's left arm at a 90 degree angle up can give the follower a nice point of contact (full forearm).
Seems you're talking about the angle between the man's upper arm and his forearm. I thought the discussion was the angle between the man's upper arm and his torso, ie. sticking his elbow out rather than pointing it down??
J
Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail?.
https://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_QuickAdd_062009
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:37:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] arm angle, keith, huck
--- On Fri, 6/19/09, Jay Rabe <jayrabe@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The man's left arm at a 90 degree angle up can give
> the follower a nice point of contact (full forearm).
>
> Seems you're talking about the angle between the man's
> upper arm and his forearm. I thought the discussion was the
> angle between the man's upper arm and his torso, ie.
> sticking his elbow out rather than pointing it down??
>
> J
>
I'll clarify, then. When the man's arm is at a 90 degree angle away from his body and his forearm is also 90 degrees up from his upper arm, there can be a nice contact between the forearms. It can feel comfortably snuggly.
If his upper arm and forearm are at 90 degrees but his arm is angled lower than 90 degrees (i.e. he drops his elbow), it can actually be less comfortable for me. It shortens my forearm and the lower part of my muscle bunches up. Not so pretty. There's also no snuggly contact between the forearms. In that case, the 135 (or whatever) degree position is more comfortable.
Those are my observations.
Trini de Pittsburgh
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 11:10:16 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <tempehuck@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] arm angle, keith, huck
To: tango-l@mit.edu
<ecf43f370906191110t5849a66re4824d900803a76c@mail.gmail.com>
On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Gary Barnes<garybarn@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
> I think we might be having a frame of reference confusion.
>
> Keith said:
>> 3 inches lower and they would appear to me to have a little
>> humility/modesty.
>
>
> but Huck said:
>
>> I much prefer the more classic angle of about
>> 135 degrees as taught by most Argentines I've taken from.
>>
>> I try to avoid any angle less than 90 degrees since that turns
>> the leader's elbow into a weapon.
>
> and Martin is talking about:
>
>> Guys who stick
>> out their left arm ?greater than 90 degrees, or 135 as huck suggests,
>> yikes! , ?or even wider
>
>
> I'm not at all sure what each of you means -- especially huck.
>
> Detlef has his _upper_ arm horizontal (at 90? from his body), and his
> forearm vertical (at 90? from his upper arm).
>
> If someone has their elbow down lower than that, and keep their
> forearm vertical, they take up less space.
> Their upper arm might be around 135? from vertical, or around 45?
> from their body. ?Is that what you mean, Huck? ?This seems to be
> equivalent to "3 inches lower". ?But that pointy elbow is safely
> tucked away.
I see now that what I said was rather confusing. I didn't mean
for the upper arm to come straight out and then make a 135 degree
angle with the lower arm, that would be insane. Your description
sounds better. What I'm talking about is the classic position of
someone like Ezequiel Farfaro, for one example. It combines elegance
with the modesty Keith was alluding to. The upper arm angles down at
an angle, and then the forearm goes up at an angle.
I find the 90/90 Statue of Liberty to be a bit too stilted, but
that's just personal taste. Most of all I dislike the position with
the hand by the ear and the elbow sticking out--it's not only too
macho looking, it's also downright rude to other dancers.
Huck
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 14:52:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Keith Elshaw" <keith@totango.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] arm angle, keith, huck
To: Tango-l@mit.edu
<61152.65.93.193.252.1245437540.squirrel@webmail4.pair.com>
You know ... our personalities make us do things how we do them.
Every person on Earth should be given room and feel free to be/express
themselves, of course.
There are many who will be slightly different in performance than they
would be on a crowded dance floor.
I guess I decided a long time ago that this was not for me.
When I am "performing" or teaching, my own desire is to show social style.
I wish people to see that it is something they can do. This way, we get
more people. "Hey - I can do that!" is a good motivator.
So, if I'm dancing on an empty dance floor because it is an exhibition, I
still show how dancers with a lot of folks around them hold themselves.
Trying not to show a dis-connect between looking and doing.
My original comment was about that left arm of the leader being a fairly
aggressive signal that he wanted his space and you better stay away.
A guy like that on the dance floor is on a trip. It works. We all stay
away. Success.
For him.
Damper on enjoyment for the rest.
I'm just sayin'.
But my bias is that I love social dancing. Love a crowded dance floor.
The smaller me and my partner have to get - the happier I am. Tango tango.
I know this is not how a lot of performers think.
On a stage, one should project that "something" which calls for being
bigger than you are.
Just sticking your left arm way out or way up or keeping your hand close
but your elbow out is telling people you have issues you haven't dealt
with yet.
As any woman will tell you, men are strange.
I think more men should follow so they can feel how silly they can be when
doing the macho thingy.
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 01:45:06 +0200
From: Detlef Engel & Melina Sedo<tango@tangodesalon.de>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] arm angle, keith, huck, ...
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Hi folks,
always a delight to see, that by very simple means the next news cycle can
be created. The most important things are said already, but let me just add:
@ Mario, Brick, Richard: Thanks for the nice words!
@ Keith: Thanks for the profound and thorough analysis, at last I know
what's going on with me!
@ Huck: Please have another look at your liberty statue, don't blame her! No
angle at all in her arm! She must be on a
special trip, too :-)
Apropos Detlef on a trip: We look very forward to visit the US in coming
October/November (Boston and New York). We hope to meet some of you guys
over there.
Best to you all.
Detlef
Melina Sedo & Detlef Engel
www: www.tangodesalon.de www.youtube.com/tangodesalon
@: tango@tangodesalon. de
Date: Sat, 20 Jun 2009 15:29:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] arm angle, keith, huck
Sean here.
?
With four joints, the arm has remarkable mobility. A man who is more than dimly aware of any other dancers on the floor may take advantage of that mobility to adjust the position of his arm to the conditions presented by those other dancers. Since the conditions are likely to change from moment to moment, more than one adjustment per tanda is permitted. However, gratuitous adjustments or marking the tempo with that arm are discouraged, as these can result in snarky comments from the peanut gallery.
?
There are those who insist that there is a "most correct" way to hold that arm. To those dancers, this may be a revalation: Even when performing on an?seemingly empty floor, there is another dancer for whom he?might adjust his "most correct" arm position. Bonus tandas to any man?who can guess who she might be.
?
Sean
(Rogue arm adjuster)
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
?
