1353  :[TANGO-L] BANDONEON AND PERSPECTIVES

Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:07:39 -0300
From: Ruben Carlos Terbalca <rubenmilonga@SINECTIS.COM.AR>
Subject: :[TANGO-L] BANDONEON AND PERSPECTIVES

Dirk,
I must accept the limitations of my English could be the cause of my
misunderstood.
In this case,excuse me , and my bad English and my misunderstood.
In the other hand, there is a lot of tango music groups in Germany,
Austria, Switzerland, Holland ,Hungary, etc. I meet a lot of them: nobody
between my contacts and her friends could finda "Modelo Argentino" in Europe
. All the European bandoneon players that I meet, import the bandoneon from
Bs. As. or Montevideo.
Also there is a year (workshop) tango music meeting for (mainly) German
spoken tango -musicians students...with a group of
bandoneon -players inside : nobody find a "Modelo Argentino" THERE. All
this people are paying between 2000 and 3500 u$d to import from Bs.As. a
BANDONEON in good conditions.-Some of the German students ask to me to by
one in my trips (from Bs. As).- Sometimes I carry bandoneons from Europe to
Bs. As. for a service, because the confidence to find experts and elements.-
I cross the world 2 times a year (including the "German world" ), giving
tango dance classes and Lectures around different tango faces, INCLUDING
TANGO MUSIC HISTORY, sometimes in Music Universities....
Something that I find in my world tango trips is the foreign tendency to
found opinions
in exceptions and not in the tango standards, talking about music , songs
or dance...(the same happens between our new tango people-Argentina) I was
discussing the Bandoneon history with a German music universitary teacher.
Everybody agree about the "MODELO ARGENTINO".- Let me do a "JOKE": "I don't
really UNDERSTAND ENGLISH",....... and "You don't understand what means in
Germany STANDARDS AND RULES... GERMAN RULES".
I find your research about layouts very interesting and rich knowledge.
Thanks for your friendly open position, and excuse my limited English.
Ruben
N1.: why nobody can find a 142 in Germany?
N2.: I spent part of my life between tango historians. The main Bandoneon
Historian is Oscar Zucci- Buenos Aires-
My be, we are a little be chauvinists, but we consider him the main
historian Bandoneon authority.- He agree with me about 142 was just for
export.-
Other answers below.-
Ruben,

As I pointed out, it is the generic use of the word bandoneon that
creates confusion.
----NEVER is inapropiated...and BANDONEON too......

Ruben Carlos Terbalca wrote: Dirk,
(excuse my bad English)Thanks for your email, and thanks again for help me
with your helpful
clarification.We agree in several points.
One of them is my shortening perspective, and I can agree also that I
am not very clever or good informed.-Also my comment is referred till the
end tango Golden Time 1959.--
I never had the intention to confuse, just to share : the German Tango
Bandoneon "MODELO ARGENTINO" was something made for argentinos musicians,
and not for Germans.- The way I understand it, it was a model made for the
Latin American market. Uruguay, Brazil and perhaps several other countries
included.--You are right--
We agree also in the Piazzolla irony about church and brothel
.I cannot help you with your serious doubts, because the Germans are
over 70 .000.000.

> > > Now or then? What is the relevance? Would all play it?

---you make the question about, without time, you gives the relevance.I
just try to answer you.-
I said 15000 B. players in 1930---
Nobody can know about the comfort of everyone (playing some

> instrument).

On the contrary. It is really very simple ergonomics as they affect
learning. Just look at the correspondence of key positions. It is easier
to make that 'leap' of judgment than to claim that germans NEVER played
any of the various models that lead to, and including, the 142 tone
model. At the very least, the people at the factory, the salesmen, some
renegade tutor, teacher or musician had to have been German. Just as
Americans still use the English system of measurements that the English
themselves abandoned for the metric system, the Argentineans, and other
South American users, hold on to but one 'branch' of a progressive
evolution.

> > ---I agree with the exceptions--- the exceptions tailor like "Procusto"

the history in each personal size. For sure, somebody must take care of the
"Quality Control", in the factory---
>My intention was just to underline : the looking an form , and
(possible) the sound was different, at the beginning, because different
boxes makes different sounds, also in all the other instruments.-I
understand that my references are limited, but in 1985 the

> > WESTDEUTSCHER RUNDFUNK KVLN ( WESTGERMAN BROADCAST. COLOGNE) publish

a

> > research special made to clear some points about the bandoneon history.
> > Based just in documents,

> >2)The first bandoneon creator (1851) was (Karl) Zimmermann from
> Kreffeld Before H. Band start to sell and change his name was called

"Krefelder

> > Konzertina" (because the differences with the Uhlig Konzertina -1935-).
> Mr.
> > H. Band was focused in accordIONS and he mix her name with the end

"ION"

> > for advertising reasons (this is one of the conclusion of this

research).

Interesting this reference:
https://trfn.clpgh.org/free-reed/history/bandoneon.html

speaks of a Zimmerman exhibiting a "Carlsfelder Konzertina" at the
Industrial Exhibition of 1849 Paris a model that on 1850 Band started to
advertise as available.

I think you mean 1835 in the reference to the Uhlig Harmonika, which
came to be known as the German Concertina.

Also note, Harry Geuns' plausible explanation and "The button-board
layouts by the three "builders" became known as the Rheinische (Band),
Chemnitzer (Uhlig) and Carlsfelder (Zimmerman) systems. "

I could just as easily 'split-hairs' as you did, and claim that
Zimmerman never created any bandoneon, but I understand what you mean.
As I trust Gulden, before your refutation, did as well. Why is he not
entitled to misuse the term, but you are?
----I can easily change my position when somebody find documents or B.142
in Germany, and ,please, I don't claim...just I share some research.---

> ---I will send you Gulden comments in my next email---

But more importantly, as noted in this site:
https://laue.ethz.ch/cm/band/node11.html

Look at the 1900 entry. The Bandonion is equated to the rhineisch lage
(layout). The Concertina to the chemnitzer and karlsfelder layouts. And
that more than anything is what segregated the precursors of the 130
model which led to the 142 model. Additionally, I trust you will agree
that historically and for reasons of marketing the names were
interchanged and misused as they are to this day. Therefore, following
the names alone is a fool's errand. The more reliable approach is to
look at the key layouts and tonal character of the reed construction.

> > ---I agree if you don't focalize in geographie---

>3)The Teachers, and Musician German Bandoneon Asociations wrote
rules about the different bondoneon standards : construction, size, number
of
keys ,etc. everything for different bandoneon versions thru the time.
Never was included or accepted the special one made for Argentina.-
>There was registered till 1930, 15000 bandoneon players in the German
Music institutions.

> Some other of my shortening perspectives:

Casually my mother and her parents come to Argentina (1922 / 3) from
the
Ruhrgebiet (Essen)
My grandfather was a miner and amateur singer (her father was a professional
singer).
I start to collect tango materials in 1959. When I ask to my grandfather
about his German bandoneon knowledge- before 1922- (he never play), the
answer was: the Argentinean tango bandoneon is more beautiful but is not
the
same that I could see in Germany , and the sound is different.

Not to disparage your, nor your grandfather's nostalgic memories, but the
130-tone (65 button) bandonion introduced into South America was but one of
many models made by the Germans. The additional 6 buttons added 12 tones
only. That is NOT that much of a difference. The tunings of the double
reeds, octave-tuned with one middle and one high reed per note is
what affect its tonal character. More buttons just added a few mor notes.
---the box had a different size--
As you, no doubt, know a 152 tone model was further made until the German
"unificado' radically changed the note distribution and only then was cross
training made difficult though certainly not impossible. This 152 model
added 5 more buttons (10 tones) to the 142 'argentinian', as you call it,
model. Who would this model have been marketed for? The
Argentinians? My 'educated' guess/speculation is that a market does not
readily jump from 130 to 152 back to 144, but a more reasonable evolution
logically would be a gradual one
I spent 19 trips to Germany, and other German Cultural Countrys. I was
visiting music museums, I find 14 different, never the Tango Bandoneon.-

> > > >Ruben Terbalca Danziger