5629  Beware criticizing a Porte?o's Tango

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 12:40:43 -0700
From: Brick Robbins <brick@fastpack.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Beware criticizing a Porte?o's Tango
To: tango-l@mit.edu
<ca2c2380904261240q4549242dp497a1223fa139865@mail.gmail.com>

There is an old joke in Argentina:
"How do you make a quick buck in Argentina? Buy a porte?o for what
he's worth, and sell him for what he says he's worth."

Truth and reason have never gotten in the way of national pride, and
few are more proud than Porte?os.

So don't expect any Porte?o to accept that foreigners might be as good
at Tango, one of the uniquely Argentine treasures.

Your version of truth really doesn't matter. It is simply true that
Argentines are better at dancing Tango. Accept it, believe it, don't
question it: we all get along better.

TIC
Ladrillo

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 15:35:42 -0500
From: burak ozkosem <buraktango@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Beware criticizing a Porte?o's Tango
To: Brick Robbins <brick@fastpack.com>
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<35ba58f10904261335t6ac2a9fcv8e5fdc738b3948cd@mail.gmail.com>

Argentines are better at dancing Tango? Check this out first then you
make your decision. For me, Social Tango is very personal, it's
neither genetically inherited nor studied in academic institutions,
and it's immigrant culture, so it can infiltrate into different
cultures.

- Who are we comparing?
A: Milongueros who have been dancing over 30 years? Of course there is
nobody outside Argentina could achieve dancing over 30 years.
Therefore, there is no way to compare if Argentine milongueros are
better dancers than Non-Argentine milongueros.

B: Argentines who have started learning Tango recently (let's say less
than 8-10 years) compared to Non-Argentines who have similar
experience level. In this case, i wouldn't buy the generalization of
"Argentines dance better than others". I have Argentine students,
friends in this situation in BsAs and here in the states. Moreover,
Asians, Turks, and Italians might be challenging this hypothesis very
well.

I believe in 30 years, today's generation would be called milongueros
and that moment we will be able to make a hypothesis who is better at
Tango.
If someone dances over 30 years everyday hearing the same music over
and over, they better be good!

I hope this makes sense.
Burak
Chicago



On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Brick Robbins <brick@fastpack.com> wrote:

> There is an old joke in Argentina:
> "How do you make a quick buck in Argentina? Buy a porte?o for what
> he's worth, and sell him for what he says he's worth."
>
> Truth and reason have never gotten in the way of national pride, and
> few are more proud than Porte?os.
>
> So don't expect any Porte?o to accept that foreigners might be as good
> at Tango, one of the uniquely Argentine treasures.
>
> Your version of truth really doesn't matter. It is simply true that
> Argentines are better at dancing Tango. Accept it, believe it, don't
> question it: we all get along better.
>
> TIC
> Ladrillo
>
>

Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 22:27:56 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Beware criticizing a Porte?o's Tango?
To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu>



Burak says "For me, Social Tango is very personal, it's neither genetically inherited nor studied in academic institutions,and it's immigrant culture, so it can infiltrate into different cultures."

I entirely agree with Burak, social tango is personal, every dancer develops his own style which is an exteriorization of his own personality. It is not genetically inherited, and it is not studied in academic institutions.

Burak says "it is immigrant culture" . To me Tango, the same as most of the other ballroom dances developed
from a mixture of European and African elements . Elements that *only* interacted when catalyzed by a very special cultural milieu.

Tango, samba, rumba or swing were not born abroad and then imported as such into the American countries, those dances developed under the influence of a very particular culture that was/is expression of a certain nationality.

I agree with Burak in the sense that Tango the same as swing, have a universal attraction. Are artistic expressions that evoke feelings, emotions and understanding in people of diverse nationality and culture.

Questions will appear with respect to authenticity when we are obligated to learn those dances outside their cultural milieu.

It is irrelevant to compare and discuss who dances better tango.

Tango is something different for each one of us. I can say I like/ dislike the way so and so dances but I cannot say he dances better or worse tango than anyone else.

What is important (IMO) is to incorporate the elements that constitute the essence of tango: hearing the music, understanding the rhythm, moving to that music, improvising, learn to surrender to the music and to one's partner, establish an spiritual connection with our companion during that journey, and eventually have a "magical" transcendental experience. All along obtaining a positive, good, kind feeling and having fun at the same time.

With best regards, Sergio







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