3418 Blacks and the origin of tango
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 14:19:38 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Blacks and the origin of tango
Bruno says:
"My 2 cents:
What actually happened was very distant from what was written into law
specially, after the defeat of General Rosas in the battle of Caseros and
his exile to England. The new governor general Urquiza had a different view
of about blacks in Argentina. One of the first things he did was to sell
blacks in condition to serve the military to Brazil despite explicit law(s)
prohibiting slavery.
The history of afro-argentines has other examples as reminder that the law
was not carved in stone."
Now my two cents:
In first place, slaves brought to Argentina were very few comparing to those
taken to other countries that had a need for their manpower, countries with
plantations of cotton, sugar cane, etc.
Their influence in Argentinean culture due to their small number was very
limited in comparison to other countries such as Brazil or the USA were they
had and still do have a strong influence in music, dance and sports.
The main rural occupation of Argentineans at the time was cattle ranching,
chores there were performed by gauchos (cowboys) caucasian or mestizos
(mixed race Spaniard/indian).
Slaves were brought just for house chores.
Argentina was a Spanish colony, the Spaniards did not take a very active
part in the very lucrative slave trade, which was mostly done by Portuguese
or English citizens. This was probably due more to the fact that most of
Africa was under the colonial rule of those two powers rather than to moral
convictions.
When Napoleon invaded Spain, the king Ferdinand VII went into exile in
France. The Argentine patriots inspired by the ideals of the French
revolution declared the first Argentinean Government (May 25th, 1810). A
constitutional assembly was elected to dictate a new constitution, this
assembly was know as "Asamblea del ano 13" (1813). According to the ideals
of the French philosophers that "all men were created equal and free" the
assembly decreed : ***all persons of any race born in Argentina from now on
are free citizens, any person just for the fact of stepping on Argentinean
soil is a free man, it is forbidden any slave trade within its territory.
General Urquiza defeated Rosas in 1853, this paved the way for the Argentine
Republic to consolidate as a unified nation under a central government. The
final constitution of 1853 granted freedom to the last few slaves left
(their freedom was bought by the government, which paid the owners the going
rate).
There are many anecdotes (some true some false) about Urquiza, if he really
took some slaves to Brazil and sold them there, he did not broke the
Argentinean law, as such laws ruled only on Argentinean territory. Brazil a
country like the USA that had large plantations abolished slavery later than
Argentina.
In practice I imagine that many house slaves in Argentina, opted to remain
with their owners as free servants.
Finally: be aware that many tango books and booklets were written
precipitately by unknown writers and contain all sort of inaccurate
information. It is better in this respect to buy books of very well known
personalities.
Summary: Tango was created by free men. Out of the three tango roots,
Milonga was created by gauchos (caucasian or mestizos) free, individualistic
and proud men of our rural areas, Habanera originated in Spain (caucasian)
went to Cuba (here it was changed, some black influence could have taken
place) went back to Spain and was brought by sailors to Argentina. Candombe
was a dance of blacks who were slaves first and free men later, this dance
modified by Argentinean caucasians constituted the third root.
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 09:29:02 -0600
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Blacks and the origin of tango
Hi Sergio:
>Milonga was created by gauchos (caucasian or mestizos)<
I guess we are reading different books because what I have read was that the
majority of Milonga singers (Payadores) were blacks.
I think there is an old European view in the treatment of afro-argentines
present in Argentina ruling classes. Perhaps, this was exemplified by former
president Carlos Menem when he addressed a university class in Maastricht
(1993?). Menem said there were no blacks in Argentina because Argentina
abolished slavery, and therefore it prevented slavery from taking place and
discouraged blacks uprooting in Argentina.
Bruno
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 12:40:35 -0300
From: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Blacks and the origin of tango
Dear friends from Tango list
I totally agree with Sergio Vandekier posting concerning the doubtly truth of some historic references .
I think I have commented before, a war that was in some way related to Tango origin , The War of the Triple Alliance , that almost killed the male population of a country, Paraguay , attacked by joint armies from Argentina, Brazil and Uruguay, the neighbour countries.
The Tango connection of this war is to be found with a mixed blood man, Santa Cruz, that is said to be at the war , carrying a primitive bandoneon that he change for food at the Buenos aires port . Later this man came back from the war and have a son , the "lame/rengo" Santa Cruz, which composed a many tangos, one of them , Union Civica, is still being played actually, as recently as by Color Tango orchestra.
Concerning General Urquiza , slavery and many other things, the seeds for the war with Paraguay arise , not by our local argentinean situation, but due to the Civil War in USA .
In 1860 , the american cotton crop was of 3.841.416 bundles (the bundles were a unit measure equal to 226 kilos approximately). Out of this number, around 3.500.000 bundles were exported, mainly to UK ( Lancaster area have a huge demand of cotton for their factories). Mark this number.
On 1864 , the production collapsed due to the civil war in USA, to 300.00 bundles. Lancaster needed no less than 2.500.000 bundles to keep the textile factories running , so a frenzy lookout started for alternate sources around the world.
Contacts were made in Argentina with General Urquiza, that ruled , not the country, but a kind of Federation , that have the control of Buenos Aires port and also the river ports at Parana River, that were the way to access Paraguay and cotton production, Paraguay was ruled by a dictator , Solano Lopez, with whom the british government have no direct contacts. But an agreement was made with General Urquiza to receive a loan from the Bank of England, to help the economy of the confederation to recover from their precarious state after the wars with Rosas and other incidents .
The story is not so easy to recall, since there are interests from Argentina and Brazil that were not always clear. Uruguay have their own troubles with two parties , the "whites" and the "reds " that fought internally, helped by foreing armies from neigbouring countries.
To be very brief : Paraguay was attacked , and besides the lost of lives ( 1.000.000 male population ,almost the 50% of the entire population of the country ) ,. they lost the Chaco area to Argentina mostly , where later british companies in Argentina make a source of cotton to be exported and to ensure the demand for Lancaster factories.
There are some historic researchers as Fermin Chavez in Argentina that made a critical revision of this years . Since one of the historians was General Mitre ,. and ,. as the saying goes " if the history is written by those who won , it is not a true history" , this revision of some bloody chapter of argentinian history make us argentinean to revise some wrong ideas.
I agree also with Sergio Vandekier, there were no slaves those years ( 1860 - onwards ) in Argentina, the few that remain as servants at houses , were almost part of the families .
They provide an unvaluable source of "songs from the buenos aires colony" , some of them , like "el negro shuca " , considered as the first forms of tango music locally .
A century later, a tango musician , Sebastian Piana, take the work and sweat to wrote down those songs into musical scripts for piano, I bought one copy at Ricordi house in Buenos Aires, and thanks to Piana ( the author of Milonga Sentimental in 1932 ),we have this music material for ever.
It is interesting that the scope of Piana4s work is from 1806 to 1862 , it seems as if for some reason there were no new songs from black people in Buenos Aires after or around that date.
Warm regards
alberto gesualdi
buenos aires
Abrm tu cuenta aqum
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 13:17:13 -0300
From: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: Blacks and the origin of tango
Hi Bruno
If the book you are reading is the one from the Bates brothers, read all the comments with a skeptical eye.
It is a book mentioned many times as a source for Tango , but this two persons, although well intentioned, lack a seriousness in their historical research, they take comments, wild speculations and many other non reliable sources as their working material.
The book of Simon Collier is a good one, and has good material.
Let s have a look at statistics
According to a census made in1778 , Buenos Aires had a population of 15.719 spaniards (whites), 1.288 half blood and indians , and 7.268 mixed blood and blacks.
In 1810 there was a population of 10.000 blacks and 15.000 in 1836.
By the end of the XIX century , the total population was 800.000 inhabitants , for the Confederacisn Argentina , not Buenos Aires only.
The total populations of mixed bloods/half blood was 110.000 y and black people 20.000. Most of this people lived in Buenos Aires.
There was a yellow fever by the end of XIX on Buenos Aires that almost killed them all, unfortunately.
To say that all the "payadores" were black , is a bit far from reality. Maybe the popularity of Gabino Ezeiza , would have been something that produced this idea . There were singers that came from Uruguay , with their milongas , that is considered a music from the Rio de la Plata or rioplatense, since it was practiced on both sides of the river , in Buenos Aires and surroundings , and Montevideo and surroundings. The situation of black people in Uruguay is different, they mixed with local inhabitants and keep an identity, but they practice the candombe , a music based in drums mainly . It is not easy to draw a line and say "here is tango, there is candome, here are the black, there are the gauchos , there the payadores " , because it was not this way.
Alberto Castillo, the tango singer, liked candombe, and brought to his performances on stage, drummers and singers .He sung "milongas candomberas" that include the drummers playing.
Also Mariano Mores with his "Taquito militar" that starts with a line of drums performing, not always played by other orchestras.
I am always looking for material , because is an interesting subject, the influence of black people in tango. There is a book that can only be find at old bookshops "Los bailes de los negros/the dances of black peoples".
Well ... nobody has the final truth I think, just a version , take this comment of myself just like that
warm regards
alberto gesualdi
Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET> escribis:
Hi Sergio:
>Milonga was created by gauchos (caucasian or mestizos)<
I guess we are reading different books because what I have read was that the
majority of Milonga singers (Payadores) were blacks.
I think there is an old European view in the treatment of afro-argentines
present in Argentina ruling classes. Perhaps, this was exemplified by former
president Carlos Menem when he addressed a university class in Maastricht
(1993?). Menem said there were no blacks in Argentina because Argentina
abolished slavery, and therefore it prevented slavery from taking place and
discouraged blacks uprooting in Argentina.
Bruno
A tu celular ?no le falta algo?
Usa Yahoo! Messenger y Correo Yahoo! en tu telifono celular.
Mas informacisn aqum.
Date: Fri, 13 May 2005 10:25:45 -0600
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Blacks and the origin of tango
Alberto Gesualdi wrote:
>It is interesting that the scope of Piana's work is from 1806 to 1862 , it
seems as if for some reason there were no new songs from black people in
Buenos Aires after or around that date.<
My 2 cents:
What about Carlos Posadas related to Kelly Posadas
Violinist, guitarist, pianist, composer and leader
(2 December 1874 - 12 November 1918)
www.todotango.com
I am not sure if Kelly Posadas subscribes to this tango list, but certainly
his comments would be very helpful in this topic of Blacks and the origin(s)
of tango.
Bruno
