5819 ?C?digo -- historia?
Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:35:45 -0400
From: Don Klein <don@aymta.org>
Subject: [Tango-L] ?C?digo -- historia?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
With all the conversation about c?digos -- where did they start, how did
they evolve?
Certainly not in the saloons, brothels, streets, ... At the
barrio/cultural association dances where tango was intermixed with the
European Mazurka, Polka, Waltz ... ? At the Teatro Opera?
Don
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 06:20:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] ?C?digo -- historia?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
The tango codes ..... they are like the head of the cod fish , everyone talk about it , and nobody has seen one, ever....
I tried to get information , but? I found elusive attitudes here in Buenos Aires , with old milongueros/as . They simply said " tango codes are to be respected " and that was it , end of the conversation.
After 10 years of visiting milongas , not all of them , but more or less, one or two of each type (salon, open air, social club, young people, etc..) , I can there are some codes, that depend on the place . This codes are not universal , in one place there is done something, in another place the opposite.
?
1) the host of the milonga do not dance with the dancers that come to dance to the milonga . Maybe he/she , will dance at the end of the night, with his co host , or the elder dancer still on the place . The different arguments I received from hosts, is that they have to take care of the people, places, waiters, music, wardrobe, artists, live music, etc.etc.. so they simply could not put their mind into dancing. They prefer to go to other milonga to dance, in a day where their milonga is not open. However last saturday at viejo correo, the host , danced with an old milonguero. It was a quiet night, not too many couples dancing, and it was early, so the night do not have more major changes, I suppose.
?
2) tandas have to be tango, milonga and valsecito, only. This is something that I heard from organizers that do this , they say " we respect the codes, no other music here , if you want latin or salsa, ?go to a disco" . However some milongas, include a tanda of cumbia, a tanda of swing/jazz , and a tanda of chacarera? , like Club El Fulgor in?Villa Crespo.?This code is .... to be bend but not to be broken it seems...
3) milonga starts when?a couple of dancers ,?usually the elder ones, or the most respected, enter to the dance floor?. The other couples wait for this couple to open the night . Sometimes there are nods?between the?elders, to see who will be the first to go , it depends on the music the DJ plays, some?elders like to dance D Arienzo?to start ( La Baldosa organizer Susana at El Pial , like to play D Arienzo as opener). Other milongas just play at random, until , maybe , a tanda of valsecitos trigger the audience into the dancing floor ( like Salon Canning on a friday night)
4) If the milonga sort the?dancers in areas?of couples, and alones, it is not a good manner to ask a woman in a table with a man, to dance , unless?they are common friends. Sometimes couples ( married couples?I mean?), show their intention to dance with?other people, by sitting in different tables.
5) taxi dancers are to be ignored. This is a relative new code . The local tango community do not like taxi dancers activity. It is known when a taxi dancer comes, since it stays with the same woman all the night , and is clear they are not a married couple.?Also their faces at the table , are faces of partners in a business agreement, not a couple looking the dance and commenting or sharing experiences.? More or less like a horse/mare ?rent for a ride in horseback.
?
6) The tango "Adios muchachos " is a bad jinx, it is not to be played, never, ever.? It?the name of the tango is pronounced , men have to hold one of their balls, and women one of her teets, is bad luck, specially for dancers ( maria nieves commented this jyink in robert duvall?s movie "assesination tango"?.
?
7) in old times, there was a man? that made a control of the dancers, if someone makes a figure that was not estrictly social dancing ( boleos or colgadas ), it came from behind , tap the shoulder of the person and said " mister, here we dance to the floor , do not do that again". If the person make the non authorized step again, it was taken away from the place.
?
8) if a man takes a woman to dance, it is not polite to dance only one tango of the tanda, the tanda has to be danced complete, and then escort the lady back to her table. Although this code of complete tanda, is respected, the other code, to escort the lady back to her table, is not fulfilled thoroughly .
?
?
Unfortunately, there is not a syllabus of tango codes, it would be something very useful,. There are opinions and comments, that are individual , I try to summarize what I have seen, there has to be a lot more of tango codes, and each milonga place, has their habits .
?
I would like to say that the direction of dance (counterclockwise) is a tango code respected, but .... it is not respected anymore, maybe in two or three places like El beso, Sunderland. Sin rumbo ....
?
?
alberto
?
________________________________
De: Don Klein <don@aymta.org>
Para: tango-l@mit.edu
Enviado: mi?, octubre 21, 2009 9:35:45 PM
Asunto: [Tango-L] ?C?digo -- historia?
With all the conversation about c?digos -- where did they start, how did
they evolve?
Certainly not in the saloons, brothels, streets, ...? At the
barrio/cultural association dances where tango was intermixed with the
European Mazurka, Polka, Waltz ... ?? At the Teatro Opera?
Don
Yahoo! Cocina
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Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 21:11:28 +0200
From: Andy Ungureanu <abungureanu@googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] ?C?digo -- historia?
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
Am 22.10.2009 15:20 schrieb Alberto Gesualdi :
> Unfortunately, there is not a syllabus of tango codes, it would be something very useful,.
not a syllabus, but a collection is here:
https://www.tangosalon.com.ar/embracing.html
"It also discusses the Milonga Codes - set out for the very first time -
and strategies and suggestions designed to encourage dance invitations
and their acceptances."
cheers Andy
Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:31:30 -0700
From: "Maria Olivera" <ma_olivera@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: RE: [Tango-L] ?C?digo -- historia?
To: "'Andy Ungureanu'" <abungureanu@googlemail.com>,
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
Hello everybody,
Actually, there's a very interesting piece written about the etiquette
(codes). The website Andy mentions in his earlier message is our website,
and my partner (Gustavo Benzecry Sab?) published his "Embracing Tango -
Techniques and metaphors between tango and life" in 2006, in this book,
there's a whole section where he goes explains the origin of the codes, and
plus, he numbers and explains them all in depth, he checked all this
information with more than a dozen milongueros, including people like Carlos
Gavito, before writing them down.
This book has been travelling with us for 3 years now, it's already in its
second edition, and a big number of Americans have it. You can e-mail us to
prensa@tangosalon.com.ar for further information about it.
Thanks Andy for posting the info before I could do it!.
Cheers,
Mar?a Olivera
www.tangosalon.com.ar
-----Mensaje original-----
De: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu [mailto:tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] En nombre de
Andy Ungureanu
Enviado el: viernes, 23 de octubre de 2009 12:11 PM
Para: undisclosed-recipients:
CC: tango-l@mit.edu
Asunto: Re: [Tango-L] ?C?digo -- historia?
Am 22.10.2009 15:20 schrieb Alberto Gesualdi :
> Unfortunately, there is not a syllabus of tango codes, it would be
something very useful,.
not a syllabus, but a collection is here:
https://www.tangosalon.com.ar/embracing.html
"It also discusses the Milonga Codes - set out for the very first time -
and strategies and suggestions designed to encourage dance invitations
and their acceptances."
cheers Andy
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:47:48 -0400
From: Ilene Marder <imhmedia@yahoo.com>
Subject: NA-E: [Tango-L] ?C?digo -- historia?
To: Maria Olivera <ma_olivera@yahoo.com.ar>, tango-l@mit.edu
Cc: 'Andy Ungureanu' <abungureanu@googlemail.com>
On the subject of codes, this morning I came across this Victorian dance
code article that I find very interesting and think it's well worth the
read for those interested in codicos. ( Milonga organizers take note
too, as to the role of hosts!!!) These kinds of dance hall codes really
stem from human nature and the desire to avoid unpleasant circumstances
between the sexes!
I found the 'In the Ballroom" section particularly interesting.
These codicos for Victorian ballrooms were in place just prior to the
advent of tango...
happy reading...
Ilene
https://www.victoriana.com/Etiquette/ballroomdancing.htm
Maria Olivera wrote:
>Hello everybody,
>
>Actually, there's a very interesting piece written about the etiquette
>(codes). The website Andy mentions in his earlier message is our website,
>and my partner (Gustavo Benzecry Sab?) published his "Embracing Tango -
>Techniques and metaphors between tango and life"
>
>
>
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:41:11 -0300
From: robin tara <robinctara@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: NA-E: [Tango-L] ?C?digo -- historia?
To: Ilene Marder <imhmedia@yahoo.com>
Cc: Maria Olivera <ma_olivera@yahoo.com.ar>, Andy Ungureanu
<abungureanu@googlemail.com>, tango-l@mit.edu
<9e1cc4860910241141g7ab0ffd5qb1b0e1071ff0eb1d@mail.gmail.com>
Codigos, New England, circa 1935.
My dad was a 6'6" lanky guy who should have been self confident, for all his
gifts. Sadly, he was a wimp. When he was to attend his first high school
formal, it had been arranged for him and his date to meet at his home. She
swept in, shook off her wrap and revealed her entire bare back. My father
quickly took his mother aside and said "Where do I put my hand when we
dance?" She pulled the handkerchief out of his pocket and handed it to him.
"Use this."
2009/10/24 Ilene Marder <imhmedia@yahoo.com>
> On the subject of codes, this morning I came across this Victorian dance
> code article that I find very interesting and think it's well worth the
> read for those interested in codicos. ( Milonga organizers take note
> too, as to the role of hosts!!!) These kinds of dance hall codes really
> stem from human nature and the desire to avoid unpleasant circumstances
> between the sexes!
> I found the 'In the Ballroom" section particularly interesting.
> These codicos for Victorian ballrooms were in place just prior to the
> advent of tango...
> happy reading...
> Ilene
>
> https://www.victoriana.com/Etiquette/ballroomdancing.htm
>
> Maria Olivera wrote:
>
> >Hello everybody,
> >
> >Actually, there's a very interesting piece written about the etiquette
> >(codes). The website Andy mentions in his earlier message is our website,
> >and my partner (Gustavo Benzecry Sab?) published his "Embracing Tango -
> >Techniques and metaphors between tango and life"
> >
> >
> >
>
--
Robin Tara
https://www.taratangoshoes.com
https://www.tangotique.com
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 21:19:10 -0300
From: "Brian Dunn" <brianpdunn@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [Tango-L] ?C?digo -- historia?
To: <tango-l@mit.edu>
Ilene, you wrote:
>>>
On the subject of codes, this morning I came across this Victorian dance
code article that I find very interesting and think it's well worth the
read for those interested in codices...
https://www.victoriana.com/Etiquette/ballroomdancing.htm
<<<
Utterly fascinating, Ilene - thanks very much.
One of the great things about tangoandchaos.org is the deeply personal and
extensively detailed set of experiences Rick McGarrey shared about his years
of encounters with various codigos - I was going to try to pull out a page
ref, but his server is slow today...plus, I don't think they are really
collected in one place, if I remember right.
Much like the field of comparative physiology explores how Nature has solved
similar physiological problems in different species (ex: how sharks and
dolphins solve the problems of being open-ocean top predators in such very
different ways) it could be fascinating to do a "comparative codigos"
study...
Anyway, your Victorian gem motivated a quick Google search for "milonga
codes" - for academically inclined French readers among us, there's a
fascinating sounding downloadable legal article which uses milongas and
their codes as an example of "everyday law" in the realms of personal
status, contract law (!) and highway codes (!!) (includes abstract in
English):
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id38280
It's thirty-five pages long, but for myself I hope some Francophone is
motivated to harvest some small goodies through translation for the rest of
us...
All the best,
Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
www.danceoftheheart.com
"Building a Better World, One Tango at a Time"
Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:50:01 +0100
From: Andy Ungureanu <abungureanu@googlemail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] ?C?digo -- historia?
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
Am 25.10.2009 02:19 schrieb Brian Dunn :
> https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id38280
>
> It's thirty-five pages long, but for myself I hope some Francophone is
> motivated to harvest some small goodies through translation for the rest of
> us...
>
The paper is nice, but hard to translate. Maybe the author, who
undoubted dances tango and my even read this list could provide some
summary.
The main message IMHO is "The milonga *is* the code"
"The milongas without code will then quickly cease to be magical places,
up to finally looking much like the society around them. Competitive,
individualistic, socially and generational segregated, milongas will be
emptied of their meaning and of a certain social transcendence that
ultimately, makes them havens of beauty."
magical dances to all
Andy
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 01:11:44 -0400
From: Steve Littler <sl@stevelittler.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] ?C?digo -- historia?
To: Tango-L List <tango-l@mit.edu>
You can probably get a satisfactory and FREE translation here.
https://translate.google.com/translate_t#
You can enter the text or upload the whole document.
I use Google frequently for translations when studying Spanish and other
languages. I like it better than other language translation sites I have
used.
El Stevito de Gainesville
Andy Ungureanu wrote:
> Am 25.10.2009 02:19 schrieb Brian Dunn :
>
>> https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id38280
>>
>> It's thirty-five pages long, but for myself I hope some Francophone is
>> motivated to harvest some small goodies through translation for the rest of
>> us...
>>
>>
> The paper is nice, but hard to translate. Maybe the author, who
> undoubted dances tango and my even read this list could provide some
> summary.
> The main message IMHO is "The milonga *is* the code"
> "The milongas without code will then quickly cease to be magical places,
> up to finally looking much like the society around them. Competitive,
> individualistic, socially and generational segregated, milongas will be
> emptied of their meaning and of a certain social transcendence that
> ultimately, makes them havens of beauty."
>
> magical dances to all
> Andy
>
>
>
>
Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 05:51:55 -0700 (PDT)
From: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] ?C?digo -- historia?
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Thank you Andy, I will read this paper, and translate part of it, is too long for the standard messages of tango L policy, to copy all.
One difficult that I see with this works, as well as the note of Benzecry Saba on milonga codes, is the ... let s say " fairy tale" approach.
Once the writer starts to describe or comment something, it takes it out from what it is, a real place with an everyda changing life, to a mental construction, a label if you want .
To give an example , Benzecry Saba comments on a tango academy , the Gaeta school. so the reader, today , year 2009 , tend to imagine a tango school like the schools are today.
A friend of mine, long milonguero experience, came from his town of a province, 2.000 km aways from Buenos Aires, to work and study here. He dance some tango in his town, but their experience was in folklore dances. So he see this advertisement on a newspaper ( this was the 60?s , almost 50 years ago), and went to this Gaeta " school". On his own words, he find a filthy hole , where some people come and go, without a true teaching, but some practice , erratic , without a syllabus or method. One of the assistants was Todaro , mainly his assistance was to lead pupils or to make them lead, years later he made his "Todaro" method.
this is something that has to be taken into account. There were no "teachers", but people that dance. On the 80's some other people here in Buenos Aires, notice there was demand for tango teachers, and take this men and women, who was very simple people ( some of them , living on a small pension as public servants retired ), and present this "tango apilado" style , as something that was the authentic argentine tango.
This brand of "styles" was something made for marketing reasons . Another old milonguero told a researcher on tango history , with his naive vision " let me see if I understand, you are working on an university paper , explaining what we do inside this milonga ?? And your teachers at the university thinks this is a subject ?? How wonderful !!"
alberto
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