5390 Call the police! The "Insult Bullies" are here!
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:17:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Tango For Her <tangopeer@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Call the police! The "Insult Bullies" are here!
Sean wrote:
If you consider yourself an advanced dancer, but have not
yet experienced a dance with a partner that is propelled
way beyond either partner's potential, then I feel very
sorry for you. I think you have not yet experienced tango.
And as long as you believe tango is about "telling a story,
(painting canvas, playing violin)", then I don't think you
will ever experience the best aspect of tango. Loose your
ego, or loose the dance.
My response:
If I suggest to try making movements like a brush stroke across a canvas and your reply is that you don't think I will ever experience the best aspect of tango, then, I will just have to take your insults in context.
"YOU feel sorry for ME"?
"Loose my ego or lose the dance"?
"YOU are suggesting that I have not yet experienced a dance with a partner that is propelled
way beyond either partner's potential"?
I remember grade-schoolers throwing insults with such ferocity! I guess there really isn't any way to keep people with this mindset off of here.
Sean, talk with some truly advanced dancers and you will learn a thing or two. You will find that they CAN do the things you say they can never do ... AND ... hehe, you're so funny ... they can try some of these exercises just to see what it does for their dance. Often, they will find that they improve their dance. Sometimes, an exercise will detract from their dance. In either case, THEY are growing as dancers!
Why would you want to be so insulting as to suggest that someone who merely suggests and example, or two, of thinking outside the box could never do this or that?
Wherever I dance, women complement me on my awareness of them. They wish others would be so in tune with them. So, I try to share some examples of how to experiment and YOU want to waste everyone's time insulting me and telling me that I can't experience something.
When I share, teach or dance, in public, people thank me. When I offer my opinion online, I get people like you insulting me. Think about that! Why do we have to endure this? You really have no clue about what we can or cannot do.
I'm sorry. I feel that I have rejoined a mailing list that is being bullied by the occassional know-it-all who gets insulted when people talk about advanced topics that they haven't had enough experience to think about? We're all on here just trying to share. Stop the insults! They are rediculous!
So, please, refrain from throwing such insults. You don't know me! It was just an example of how to experiment, for crying out loud!
Sean also wrote:
What has not been pointed out is that at best, a perfectly
crafted tool will not hinder the user in reaching his
potential. But no tool is perfect, so the tool always
limits the user.
My comment:
Again, it was an example for people to try to think about how to make their bodies move differently.
I didn't say that I am limited to thinking about just a brush. And, the poster about the violin didn't say that he was limited to just thinking about a violin. I know I am not limited and I would trust that the other posters are not limited, either.
Someday, as you progress, you will see that experimentation does not mean that you can't do other things, too!
"Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com> wrote:
--- Krasimir Stoyanov wrote:
Sorry, I have not yet seen a tango, that is 50/50 dialogue.
...
This dance is a monologue, like it or not, adorned by some
additions from the follower.
...
Otherwise, instead of telling a story, (painting canvas,
playing violin), it becomes a quarrel. I see it every night
locally. And I am tired of this pseudo-tango.
---
Sean here,
As many people have already pointed out, violins and
brushes are merely tools. Without someone to wield them,
they are utterly useless. (Except for maybe releasing a few
potential BTUs on a desperately cold winter night.)
What has not been pointed out is that at best, a perfectly
crafted tool will not hinder the user in reaching his
potential. But no tool is perfect, so the tool always
limits the user.
A woman, on the other hand, does not need a man to dance.
And rather than limit the man's potential the way a tool
must, a woman may collaborate with a man to create a dance
that is better than either can achieve by themselves. This
synergy is my reason to dance.
If you consider yourself an advanced dancer, but have not
yet experienced a dance with a partner that is propelled
way beyond either partner's potential, then I feel very
sorry for you. I think you have not yet experienced tango.
And as long as you believe tango is about "telling a story,
(painting canvas, playing violin)", then I don't think you
will ever experience the best aspect of tango. Loose your
ego, or loose the dance.
>>From time to time, I have complained that some women do not
contribute to the dance. My complaints are really about the
lack of synergy when dancing with these women. In some
cases, it may just be "bad chemistry", or more likely, a
lack of trust. But for the most part, I think that these
women have abdicated their role in the dance, in order to
not offend the men who would use them like tools. So these
men, with their pathetic little egos, are part of the
problem. But nobody may be used against his (her) will. If
certain women choose to diminish themselves to receive more
monologues, then I will find others who prefer to dance. I
cannot blame the men for taking advantage of women who
allow themselves to be used.
Sean
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
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Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:01:53 -0800 (PST)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Call the police! The "Insult Bullies" are
here!
Wow TFH, I am suprised that you thought my response was
directed at you. From your various postings, I have
believed that you have in fact experienced the sort of
synergy I describe. The parragraph that you find so
personally insulting is in fact intended to refute the
assertion that "This dance is a monologue, like it or not,
adorned by some additions from the follower." That's why I
quoted that part of someone else's (not your) post. Unless
you agree with the dance as monologue assertion, I don't
see any way to connect my comments to you or your posts.
Likewise, my comments about tools and their limits were not
directed toward you. The wording of your original post
could have been interpreted as objectifying women, but you
quickly clarified that you were describing visualization
execises. To me at least, that was sufficient explanation.
But the thread wandered into a wierd battle of the sexes
direction. While you have made it clear that it was not
your intention to objectify women, it is also clear from
some of the responses that some men do so, or at least that
many women feel objectified. Again, unless you consider
women to be merely tools, I don't see any way to connect my
comments to you or your posts.
TFH, and anyone else who feels insulted by my ideas,
please, reread the post before flying into a rage. Maybe
it's not about you at all.
Sean
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
Be a better friend, newshound, and
Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:49:50 -0800
From: ELEMER DUBROVAY <elemer_7@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Call the police! The "Insult Bullies" are
here!
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
No wonder that many of my tango friends don't read the tango-L.
(They tell me it is boring).
Elemer in Redmond.
Share life as it happens with the new Windows Live.
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Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 03:24:48 +0000
From: "Bruno Afonso" <bafonso@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Call the police! The "Insult Bullies" are here!
To: "ELEMER DUBROVAY" <elemer_7@msn.com>
Cc: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
<4f5d14730712241924i23e1af00ue1f7063533ba9ab@mail.gmail.com>
On Dec 24, 2007 4:49 AM, ELEMER DUBROVAY <elemer_7@msn.com> wrote:
> No wonder that many of my tango friends don't read the tango-L.
> (They tell me it is boring).
Just keep an eye on subjects for cool new stuff. Once it gets like
this, ignore it. :-)
b
