1905 Apologia!
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:58:01 -0700
From: luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Apologia!
Bandito,
My profound apologies! This vulgar remark is the
product of Ricardo Tanturi's feverish imagination, not
yours! I can't imagine how I could have made such a
mistake, but now my ire at Ricardo is even greater
since he didn't even have the guts to write to me and
identify himself as the rightful author. You are a
disgrace to this List, Ricardo, and the human race in
general!!! I thought we had gotten beyond bathroom
humor on this List, mercifully, but apparently not.
"By the way - no offense, but I've never understood
the people who dance all the time instead of sometimes
sitting out watching, socializing, etc. And dancing
with one partner and then with another one on the
very next dance seems a bit like getting out of
bed with one person and hopping into bed with another
while you're still wet. (Just a bit.)"
Luda
=====
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:39:59 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Apologia!
You are a
> disgrace to this List, Ricardo, and the human race in
> general!!! I thought we had gotten beyond bathroom
> humor on this List, mercifully, but apparently not.
>
> "By the way - no offense, but I've never understood
> the people who dance all the time instead of sometimes
> sitting out watching, socializing, etc. And dancing
> with one partner and then with another one on the
> very next dance seems a bit like getting out of
> bed with one person and hopping into bed with another
> while you're still wet. (Just a bit.)"
>
> Luda
>
Luda,
his comparison may sound a bit crude, but basically, I do not see anything
wrong with it, if someone feels like that. I realise, that Ricardo, rather
than writing about what happens when he himself changes partners, talks
about his jealousy when the woman does so, right after having left him. Why
not, at least he admits to being jealous, rather than quietly planning his
revenge, like listeros have described before occasionally, after being
rejected by a woman.
Another thing, though a petty one, Luda: this is not bathroom humour, it is
more like bedroom humour.
The metaphysically enlightended new age people would say:"... while she
still is having his vibes on her body/ while she is still filled with his
energy...", but I don't really care,one way or another.
no tango content today, hope nobody is watching...
Astrid
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:41:57 EDT
From: Mallpasso@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Apologia!
Apologies accepted.
El Bandito de Tango
In a message dated 10/17/2003 00:58:56 Pacific Daylight Time,
luda_r1@YAHOO.COM writes:
Bandito,
My profound apologies! This vulgar remark is the
product of Ricardo Tanturi's feverish imagination, not
yours! I can't imagine how I could have made such a
mistake, but now my ire at Ricardo is even greater
since he didn't even have the guts to write to me and
identify himself as the rightful author. You are a
disgrace to this List, Ricardo, and the human race in
general!!! I thought we had gotten beyond bathroom
humor on this List, mercifully, but apparently not.
"By the way - no offense, but I've never understood
the people who dance all the time instead of sometimes
sitting out watching, socializing, etc. And dancing
with one partner and then with another one on the
very next dance seems a bit like getting out of
bed with one person and hopping into bed with another
while you're still wet. (Just a bit.)"
Luda
=====
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:01:24 -0500
From: Riccardo Fanciulli <riccardo@PHYSICS.PURDUE.EDU>
Subject: Re: apologia
Sergio I think you're completely right in both observations.
Trying to ridicule someone who doesn't share our opinions is a classic, if
somewhat childish approach to a discussion (or actually approach to kill a
discussion).
Kids make fun of the antagonist (using physical differences to belittle
him/her), while adults (at least by age) belittle the subject and sometime
pass to more specific, aimed, personal attacks too.
This, of course, doesn't happen in the tango community, where we are all
friends nourishing from the same spring of Tango.
This bad metaphor reminds me of the second reason that made me feel like
writing...
The emails from Luda about the metaphor used in tango-L are a classic
example of a certain lack of exposure to other cultures.
Personally, being from Italy I didn't feel in the least outraged by that
remark (I remember sharing the same feeling with the author, but unnoticing
any offensive language).
>From what I have learnt from my few Argentines friends (and from some
interviews with old dancers), in Argentina (like in Italy and most of Europe
I'd say) is not uncommon to play with words looking for words with double
meaning (of which often one of the two is sexual). This was true in the
early age of Tango (remember "el choclo"?), why shouldn't be true nowadays?
Here we talk a lot about Argentina, la parrilla etc., but when it comes to
accepting a different culture... apparently some of us still find it
difficult.
To conclude, I wouldn't have thought much of Luda's remarks, because I know
the way of thinking of SOME people in the US and, being used to it, I
accept it.
What made me feel like writing about all this, in fact, is the tone that was
used...
"your recent comments on this subject are an
embarrassment to the List"
"I'd be ashamed to be seen in public
with you. If you have any shred of decency left, I'd
stifle myself from now on"
"You are a disgrace to this List, Ricardo, and the human race in
general!!! "
Who gives this person the right to say such things to another person? In
fact one shouldn't even take seriously a person that uses this kind of tone
on a newsgroup and for my writing about it, I offer my apologies to the list
(I really couldn't help it).
I think that here someone should think it over and see who should be ashamed
of what.
Just my opinion.
- Riccardo Fanciulli
PS: just to make it clear, I'm NOT Ricardo Tanturi :)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:37:56 -0700
From: Ricardo Tanturi <tanturi999@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Apologia!
Hi Luda,
Thanks for mentioning me, and thanks for setting us
straight about the posts. I had no idea you were
referring to me in your previous message. I knew
that some people might consider my comments in
slightly bad taste, but I was trying to make a point
(not humor), and I never dreamed that anyone would
be really offended. Maybe I AM a disgrace to the
human race!
You've had a big day today, with your well-considered,
inciteful posts about Steven, Lisa, and myself.
Warmest regards, and I hope you get back on your meds
real soon.
"Ricardo"
--- luda_r1 <luda_r1@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
> Bandito,
>
> My profound apologies! This vulgar remark is the
> product of Ricardo Tanturi's feverish imagination,
> not
> yours! I can't imagine how I could have made such a
> mistake, but now my ire at Ricardo is even greater
> since he didn't even have the guts to write to me
> and
> identify himself as the rightful author. You are a
> disgrace to this List, Ricardo, and the human race
> in
> general!!! I thought we had gotten beyond bathroom
> humor on this List, mercifully, but apparently not.
>
> "By the way - no offense, but I've never understood
> the people who dance all the time instead of
> sometimes
> sitting out watching, socializing, etc. And
> dancing
> with one partner and then with another one on the
> very next dance seems a bit like getting out of
> bed with one person and hopping into bed with
> another
> while you're still wet. (Just a bit.)"
>
> Luda
>
> =====
>
>
> search
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 08:23:44 -0700
From: Catrina Imports <catrinaimports@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Apologia!
Subject: [TANGO-L] Apologia!
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 08:23:44 -0700
From: Catrina Imports <catrinaimports@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Apologia!
Subject: [TANGO-L] Apologia!
> My profound apologies!
In Spanish, "apologma" usually refers to a spoken or
written defense, justification or praise of something
(in most cases, something that is looked down up).
In reading about history, politics and law in
Argentina, one will often see the phrase "apologia del
crimen". This refers to the defense, justification or
praise of a crime. Someone who tries to justify or
praise the Holocaust or the torture and murder during
a dictatorship is committing "apologia del crimen".
It's often the defense or praise of a crime against
humanity, but not always. As I recall, there was a
case not long ago where a police official in the
Province of Buenos Aires was accused of justifying
police brutality and illegal use of force in a
statement made to a newspaper.
FWIW,
Kate
