2879 Bartek's article and some responses, part 2
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:41:32 -0700
From: Kos.Zahariev@EC.GC.CA
Subject: Bartek's article and some responses, part 2
This is part 2.
TANGO AS A LANGUAGE
Dominique made the analogy to language:
"As all the languages change because people evolve and as other discussions an
other way to express themselves, I find it's normal the same thing's happen in
dancing. We do not make the same things and we don't like the same things
as our grand parents. I think we don't speak the same way to our boss than
to a friend or to the people we are in love with, so it's quite natural we
will not dance the same way with different people and on different music.
And the biggest factor for that is our mood, we don't dance the same way
if we are happy, sad, tired, quite, stressed an so on. So why not
completely change our style of dancing to better fit with all this
elements. And to really express who we are and how we are in this moment.
The last thing is who can say know how people where speaking at end of XIX
century what expressions they use, what was the common vocabulary, what
kind of grammatical mistake was common an so on... the same is right for
tango."
I thought about this and discovered that this analogy should point out to the
exactly opposite to what Dominique is trying to support.
New tango is mostly popular in North America. If what Dominique said were
true, then:
First: this would imply that argentinians have not changed as quickly as
north americans. It follows that argentinians, in their "insistence" to dance
the way they do, are somehow less astute and less sensitive to the normal
changes of their own dance and music. I don't find this credible.
Second: in languages it is usually the case that a language becomes frozen the
way it was spoken (especially that we are talking about only 10-20 years span)
when it gets transplanted somewhere else geographically and spoken by a much
smaller population, and it is the country of origin where the changes occur
first or more quickly. This is also connected to the amount of people speaking
it in both cases. For the tango case, everything seems to have developed in
the opposite sense - the change occurs the fastest where it was transplanted
and practiced by a smaller population.
Third: the tango argentino music (for dancing) that is used is still mostly
the same one from the Golden Era and new tango argentino music is in the same
vein. If, as I believe, the dance expresses the music, then it would not be
logical that it would change naturally in a significant way (as in new
tango). This last argument is not really analogous from language, but is part
of the more general argument for changing conditions necessitating changes in
the dance.
So, Dominique, applying your analogy I arrive at reasons why new tango can not
be a natural change, which is the opposite of what you were arguing.
ON OPEN-MINDEDNESS
Andreas Wichter gave a very interesting response to Marco's "tango is about
love and open-mindedness"; Andreas said:
"Since when is tango about open-mindedness? Did I miss something? You're
probably substituting/projecting your own values here. Open-mindedness is
fine, but why attach it to a perceived tango "value system"?"
I agree with Andreas; this seems to come from nowhere as a specific value in
tango.
'TRUE V. 'NEW' AS 'AMATEUR V. PROFESSIONAL' AND/OR 'SOCIAL V. PERFORMANCE'
This is mostly from Aron's comprehensive reply to various people. I am
referring to everything that was not one of
- his personal introduction;
- his reply to me which I addressed already on a different email;
- the paragraph on the right of existence: I think we agree we do not
deny new tango's right to exist.
- the paragraph on what the psychological basis is for people to yearn
for authenticity [in tango];
- bad art and good art, and how some 'new tango' dancers are really
good: I was referring to art versus non-art which is slightly different, and
certainly very good true tango dancers can also "dance with a complete
beginner at make her (him!) feel that (s)he is SOOOO good at it."
So the rest made parallels between 'true' and 'new' and the relationship
between 'amateur' and 'professional' and between 'social' and
'performance'. These are interesting thoughts. Aron is seeing similarities in
the emergence of 'new tango' by a driving force similar to the evolution from
amateur to professional and from social to performance aspect. Bartek
essentially says the same about the shift in priorities and the driving
forces, so I would not say that he would disagree. Very anti-climactic :-)
Best regards,
Konstantin
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 22:03:47 -0500
From: "Christopher L. Everett" <ceverett@CEVERETT.COM>
Subject: Re: Bartek's article and some responses, part 2
Kos.Zahariev@EC.GC.CA wrote:
>So the rest made parallels between 'true' and 'new' and the relationship
>between 'amateur' and 'professional' and between 'social' and
>'performance'. These are interesting thoughts. Aron is seeing similarities in
>the emergence of 'new tango' by a driving force similar to the evolution from
>amateur to professional and from social to performance aspect. Bartek
>essentially says the same about the shift in priorities and the driving
>forces, so I would not say that he would disagree. Very anti-climactic :-)
>
>
Of course, to master any art takes a certain period of obsessive attention
and practice, say 8 to 12 hours a day over a period of several years (I'm
thinking in terms of Jazz virtuosos like Coltrane & Parker, for instance).
A professional like Omar Vega practices like the rest of us go to work in
the morning. And the results show (and how). On the other hand, lifetimes
spent dancing 4 to 6 hours a night, six nights a week (and maybe teaching
tango during the day) really blur the line twixt "amateur" &
"professional",
at least as far as social dance goes (although lifetimes of dancing badly
don't automagically create good dancers). At least, we've stopped talking
about Aron's grandparents in the local community center. :)
If you look around you, this blurring of the pro/am line happens every
day in the larger world about us, in many felds besides dance. It may
take more physical talent than most of us have to become a professional
stage dancer, but social dance is the great equalizer and many more of
us can aspire to a "professional" skill level there, and who's to say
social dance has less worth than the stage dance? After all, every
show ends its run someday, but we can always find a milonga tommorrow.
--
Christopher L. Everett
Chief Technology Officer www.medbanner.com
MedBanner, Inc. www.physemp.com
