3459 Corte or Quebrada?
Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 18:04:54 -0700
From: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
Subject: Corte or Quebrada?
So, what is this,
https://www.dance-forums.com/album/showphoto.php/photo/78/cat/503/page/1
Corte or quebrada?
Igor Polk
Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 23:40:45 -0600
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Corte or Quebrada?
Igor Polk asked:
Re: [https:// -> ImageFile]
Is this image a Corte or Quebrada?
My 2 cents:
I would say neither. The couple seem posing towards the end of the music,
unless the tango is extremely slow. Anyway, the bending may be an
exaggerated Quebrada.
My understanding is that the "Cortes" was executed with changes in rhythm,
for tango music with strong African component(s), which black dancers knew
very well.
The "Corte" would take place during a "corrida" (from the primitive Chotis)
by the dancer sensing a change of rhythm in the music.
The "Cortes" was synonym of figures, where the black dancer will release the
embrace from the woman and execute figures he had built from other dances of
the time namely, candombe, habanera, chotis, polka, paso doble, milonga,
etc. Different spirits of music blended into the singular choreography of
the dancing milonga and tango.
Types of Cortes:
Step on the tip of the toe:
, and stepping on the tip of one foot he would arch one leg, and rotate it
as if the leg was detached from his body. The Corte would end with a push to
the woman.
Cross steps:
Cortes were cross steps, where a double Corte (double cross step) is
basically an Ocho, which is a cross step repeated to left or right side of
the foot. The lyrics of one the oldest tangos "Don Juan" mentioned the Doble
Corte as perhaps the most attention getter step of the time.
Vueltas (modified turns):
Vueltas or Turns, Nicanor Lima describes the Vueltas as pivots or rotations
after a second step ending 180 degrees one way facing yourself, and one more
at fourth step turning 180 degrees facing the opposite way.
From Candombe:
These appear to come from "Ombligadas" (bellies come together) sort of
mirror steps. What I have read is that the "Ombligada" creates superimposed
"Ochos", similar to the Canyengue basic step from Marta and Manolo's
Canyengue. Also, similar to the refined mirror step from Nicanor Lima's
Volcadas (completely different from the present Volcadas).
Hope this helps,
Bruno
Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 18:05:41 -0400
From: Clint Rauscher <clint@AXIALPARTNERS.COM>
Subject: Re: Corte or Quebrada?
Hi All,
I have been following the discussion of Cortes and Quebradas. I just got in
a documentary that had some very old tango footage in it. I have encoded
some small snippets of video that might shed some light on the Cortes and
Quebradas question.
Take a look at: https://www.tangoevolution.com go to media/videos/vintage
videos.
Thanks,
Clint Rauscher
clint@tangoevolution.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
> [mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Bruno
> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 1:41 AM
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Corte or Quebrada?
>
>
> Igor Polk asked:
> Re: [https:// -> ImageFile]
> Is this image a Corte or Quebrada?
>
> My 2 cents:
>
> I would say neither. The couple seem posing towards the end
> of the music,
> unless the tango is extremely slow. Anyway, the bending may be an
> exaggerated Quebrada.
>
> My understanding is that the "Cortes" was executed with
> changes in rhythm,
> for tango music with strong African component(s), which black
> dancers knew
> very well.
>
> The "Corte" would take place during a "corrida" (from the
> primitive Chotis)
> by the dancer sensing a change of rhythm in the music.
>
> The "Cortes" was synonym of figures, where the black dancer
> will release the
> embrace from the woman and execute figures he had built from
> other dances of
> the time namely, candombe, habanera, chotis, polka, paso
> doble, milonga,
> etc. Different spirits of music blended into the singular
> choreography of
> the dancing milonga and tango.
>
> Types of Cortes:
>
> Step on the tip of the toe:
> , and stepping on the tip of one foot he would arch one leg,
> and rotate it
> as if the leg was detached from his body. The Corte would end
> with a push to
> the woman.
>
> Cross steps:
> Cortes were cross steps, where a double Corte (double cross step) is
> basically an Ocho, which is a cross step repeated to left or
> right side of
> the foot. The lyrics of one the oldest tangos "Don Juan"
> mentioned the Doble
> Corte as perhaps the most attention getter step of the time.
>
> Vueltas (modified turns):
> Vueltas or Turns, Nicanor Lima describes the Vueltas as
> pivots or rotations
> after a second step ending 180 degrees one way facing
> yourself, and one more
> at fourth step turning 180 degrees facing the opposite way.
>
> From Candombe:
> These appear to come from "Ombligadas" (bellies come together) sort of
> mirror steps. What I have read is that the "Ombligada"
> creates superimposed
> "Ochos", similar to the Canyengue basic step from Marta and Manolo's
> Canyengue. Also, similar to the refined mirror step from
> Nicanor Lima's
> Volcadas (completely different from the present Volcadas).
>
> Hope this helps,
>
>
> Bruno
>
Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 18:34:28 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <stermitz@TANGO.ORG>
Subject: Re: Corte or Quebrada?
I didn't see any Cortes or Quebradas, by my understanding. I'm not
sure I agree with your definitions:
- quebrada (a quick athletic jerky motion)
- cortes (a sudden suggestive pause)
Quebrar means to break, as in break at the waist, perhaps a deep lunge.
Corte means cut, which could be anything from a parada (stop) to a
dramatic pause.
But as Sergio points out "Tango con cortes and quebradas" seems to
simply refer to something generic like "tango with too many fancy
moves", whatever that means.
It is interesting to see some of these old movies. But, if the cortes
& quebradas were eliminated in the 1930s, maybe only one or two of
these snippets appear to be that old.
On some of them (number two for example) I'm not confident in your
dating. Instead, it looks like a movie supposed to be set in the old
days, but not with old dancing. More like it was choreographed with
standard 1970s-90s fantasy tango; just the costumes make it look like
old.
The one labeled milongas 70s-80s, might be more likely some footage
of milongas 90s after the revival. I mean, how many and which
milongas were operating in the 70s? For that matter, how many
operated before 1984?
On May 23, 2005, at 4:05 PM, Clint Rauscher wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I have been following the discussion of Cortes and Quebradas. I
> just got in
> a documentary that had some very old tango footage in it. I have
> encoded
> some small snippets of video that might shed some light on the
> Cortes and
> Quebradas question.
>
> Take a look at: https://www.tangoevolution.com go to media/videos/
> vintage
> videos.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Clint Rauscher
> clint@tangoevolution.com
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine Tango
>> [mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Bruno
>> Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 1:41 AM
>> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Corte or Quebrada?
>>
>>
>> Igor Polk asked:
>> Re: [https:// -> ImageFile]
>> Is this image a Corte or Quebrada?
>>
>> My 2 cents:
>>
>> I would say neither. The couple seem posing towards the end
>> of the music,
>> unless the tango is extremely slow. Anyway, the bending may be an
>> exaggerated Quebrada.
>>
>> My understanding is that the "Cortes" was executed with
>> changes in rhythm,
>> for tango music with strong African component(s), which black
>> dancers knew
>> very well.
>>
>> The "Corte" would take place during a "corrida" (from the
>> primitive Chotis)
>> by the dancer sensing a change of rhythm in the music.
>>
>> The "Cortes" was synonym of figures, where the black dancer
>> will release the
>> embrace from the woman and execute figures he had built from
>> other dances of
>> the time namely, candombe, habanera, chotis, polka, paso
>> doble, milonga,
>> etc. Different spirits of music blended into the singular
>> choreography of
>> the dancing milonga and tango.
>>
>> Types of Cortes:
>>
>> Step on the tip of the toe:
>> , and stepping on the tip of one foot he would arch one leg,
>> and rotate it
>> as if the leg was detached from his body. The Corte would end
>> with a push to
>> the woman.
>>
>> Cross steps:
>> Cortes were cross steps, where a double Corte (double cross step) is
>> basically an Ocho, which is a cross step repeated to left or
>> right side of
>> the foot. The lyrics of one the oldest tangos "Don Juan"
>> mentioned the Doble
>> Corte as perhaps the most attention getter step of the time.
>>
>> Vueltas (modified turns):
>> Vueltas or Turns, Nicanor Lima describes the Vueltas as
>> pivots or rotations
>> after a second step ending 180 degrees one way facing
>> yourself, and one more
>> at fourth step turning 180 degrees facing the opposite way.
>>
>> From Candombe:
>> These appear to come from "Ombligadas" (bellies come together)
>> sort of
>> mirror steps. What I have read is that the "Ombligada"
>> creates superimposed
>> "Ochos", similar to the Canyengue basic step from Marta and Manolo's
>> Canyengue. Also, similar to the refined mirror step from
>> Nicanor Lima's
>> Volcadas (completely different from the present Volcadas).
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>>
>> Bruno
>>
>>
>
>
Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 19:51:56 -0600
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Corte or Quebrada?
>Clint on the snippets regarding the Cortes and Quebradas:
https://www.tangoevolution.com go to media/videos/vintage videos.<
Good show!
The snippet that reconciles with what I have read about Cortes and Quebradas
is snippet # 3. The Cortes are the cross steps, and the ending looks like a
Sentada (old). The Sentada and the Quebrada are similar, with the difference
that the Quebrada is more of a generic movement.
Snippet 1 appears to show "El Cachafaz" performing a custom made step, which
may well be a Corte. This snippet is perhaps a post silent movie more like
1930's. As far as I know, there are no available tango silent movies in
public domain, but they might have gone to become private collector's items.
Andres M. Carretero says that original tango dance by compadritos et. al.
were not included until after Rudolph Valentino's portrayed Tango in film.
The people who managed the film industry then disdained including tango
dance coming from compadritos, but did no mind including them in films as
secondary characters.
Best regards,
Bruno
Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 00:45:37 -0400
From: Clint Rauscher <clint@AXIALPARTNERS.COM>
Subject: Re: Corte or Quebrada?
> Quebrar means to break, as in break at the waist, perhaps a
> deep lunge.
Yes... I have also heard it described as a break in the line of the back and
as a lilting motion.
> Corte means cut, which could be anything from a parada (stop) to a
> dramatic pause.
This is a collection of all the references I have been able to dig up on
cortes from tango books and web sites:
A cortes often lead up to the quebrada. A cortes interrupted forward
walking and lead to the introduction of a figure (move). The cortes is also
often referred to as a cut, which could mean a cut (stop) in forward
movement. I have also heard cortes described as a predecessor to ochos and a
central element of what would later be called canyengue.
> It is interesting to see some of these old movies. But, if the cortes
> & quebradas were eliminated in the 1930s, maybe only one or two of
> these snippets appear to be that old.
Yes.. the snippet 3 that Bruno is pointing out is almost definately from
that period. Even if the others are after the 30s, they would still have
been made when these moves were more fresh in the minds of the dancers. The
moves were frowned upon at social dances but still practiced.
This would lend some credibility to again to snippet 3.. the move were the
man lifts his right foot and the woman lifts her left foot and they go up
and down very suggestively. I can definately see this as being percieved as
obscene at that time.. actually I can see that as being a little obscene
today.
> On some of them (number two for example) I'm not confident in your
> dating. Instead, it looks like a movie supposed to be set in the old
> days, but not with old dancing. More like it was choreographed with
> standard 1970s-90s fantasy tango; just the costumes make it look like
> old.
I don't think I dated number 2 but from the look of it and the film stock I
would guess it was from a movie shot in the 40s or 50s... probably 40s...
again they would not have been dancing like this in the 40s probably but
they would have more knowledge than us of how it was being danced in the 20s
or 30s. I am not positive on the 40s or 50s but I would be very surprised if
this were later than 1960.
> The one labeled milongas 70s-80s, might be more likely some footage
> of milongas 90s after the revival. I mean, how many and which
> milongas were operating in the 70s? For that matter, how many
> operated before 1984?
This definately could be later. The dress looks 70s in some of the scenes
but maybe their fasion was a bit behind. Probably early 80s to early 90s.
Clint
clint@tangoevolution.com
Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 00:53:20 -0600
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Corte or Quebrada?
Clint wrote:
[...]
>This would lend some credibility to again to snippet 3.. the move were the
man lifts his right foot and the woman lifts her left foot and they go up
and down very suggestively. I can definitely see this as being perceived as
obscene at that time.. actually I can see that as being a little obscene
today.<
My 2 cents:
I have read that the Sentada, not the Quebrada, then was an **insinuation**.
As far as I know even though the moves could be perceived as containing
sexual innuendo, the characters and the places were the ones considered
maligned because of their bad reputation. For example, two great Tango
dancers of those times in the Buenos Aires' underworld namely, "El Civico"
and "La Moreira" were the reason why people refrained from having to do
anything with the dance and the people behind it. The Civico was a pimp, who
lived from the avails of his woman la Moreira, who was an expert in the use
of the knife. The Buenos Aires' underworld contained many characters like
"El Civico", thieves, and so forth. These underworld people commingled at
times in dancing places attended also by Compadritos, who were always ready
to put up a knife fight at the slight provocation.
Regards,
Bruno
Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 13:23:03 -0500
From: Susan Lamberth <susanlamberth@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: Corte or Quebrada?
Bruno,
Where do you find references to the two dancers El Civico and La
Moreira? I've heard of references to them, but am unclear as to
whether they were real people or characters that came to epitomize
tango dancers of the time.
Susan
On May 24, 2005, at 1:53 AM, Bruno wrote:
> Clint wrote:
> [...]
>> This would lend some credibility to again to snippet 3.. the move
>> were the
> man lifts his right foot and the woman lifts her left foot and they go
> up
> and down very suggestively. I can definitely see this as being
> perceived as
> obscene at that time.. actually I can see that as being a little
> obscene
> today.<
>
> My 2 cents:
>
> I have read that the Sentada, not the Quebrada, then was an
> **insinuation**.
> As far as I know even though the moves could be perceived as containing
> sexual innuendo, the characters and the places were the ones considered
> maligned because of their bad reputation. For example, two great Tango
> dancers of those times in the Buenos Aires' underworld namely, "El
> Civico"
> and "La Moreira" were the reason why people refrained from having to do
> anything with the dance and the people behind it. The Civico was a
> pimp, who
> lived from the avails of his woman la Moreira, who was an expert in
> the use
> of the knife. The Buenos Aires' underworld contained many characters
> like
> "El Civico", thieves, and so forth. These underworld people commingled
> at
> times in dancing places attended also by Compadritos, who were always
> ready
> to put up a knife fight at the slight provocation.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bruno
>
Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 13:29:57 -0600
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Corte or Quebrada?
Susan Lamberth wrote:
>Where do you find references to the two dancers El Civico and La Moreira?<
My 2 cents:
The references to "El Civico and La Moreira" are described extensively in
Jose Sebastian Tallon's book, "El Tango en sus etapas de musica prohibida"
(Tango in its times as prohibited music). First edition published in January
1959, and the Second one in August 1964. The second edition was revised by
Julian Porten~o to correct names, places, and information which was left as
imprecise in the first edtion of the book.
Best regards,
Bruno
Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 14:47:12 -0600
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Re: Corte or Quebrada?
On references to El Civico and La Moreyra:
From Antologia del tango rioplatense desde sus comienzos hasta 1910,
Instituto Nacional de Musicologia Carlos Vega.
My translation in English:
Acosta, Luciana [la Moreyra] popular dancer (circa 1880 - ?). In the first
decade of the 20th century, had her place of operations in the café La
Pichona, located in the neighborhood of San Cristobal, next to the old Army
depot. Her character was a source of inspiration in the literature. Jose
Sebastian Tallon describes her colorfully in "El Tango en sus etapas de de
musica prohibida" (Buenos Aires 1959) and Juan Carlos Ghiano makes her the
lead character in the stage production "La Moreyra", which was first shown
by the theatre company of Tita Merello in 1962. There is a film version
where Tita Merello plays the role of La Moreyra.
In Spanish verbatim:
ACOSTA, Luciana ["La Moreyra"]. Popular bailarina (c. 1880 - ?). En la
primera década del siglo XX, tenía su centro de actividades en el Café de la
Pichona, situado en el barrio de San Cristóbal, próximo al antiguo Arsenal
de Guerra. Su figura fue motivo de inspiración en el campo literario: José
Sebastián Tallon la retrata pintorescamente en El tango en sus etapas de
música prohibida (8uenos Aires, 1959); y Juan Carlos Ghiano la hace
protagonista de su obra teatral La Moreyra, estrenada por la compañía de
Tita Merello en 1962. Existe una versión cinematográfica, protagonizada por
la mencionada actriz.
The Civico was from Italian descent, a singer, guitar player, born with the
gift of gab, worked in the trade of women. The Moreyra was from Andalucian
and gypsy extraction. They were in their mid twenties (1905, 1906, 1907,
1908) when they were famous, and lived in the conventillo "Sarandi" between
Constitucion and Cochabamba, where the tango composer Vicente Greco,
composer of Rodriguez Pen~a, lived all his life.
Best regards,
Bruno
