1867 Cortinas and other Crap ;-)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:25:40 +0200
From: Melina Sedo <melinasedo@ONLINEHOME.DE>
Subject: Cortinas and other Crap ;-)
Hello everybody,
speaking of cortinas, in my opinion there are three guidelines:
1. The Cortina-piece should not change during the night.
2. It should be a calm non-tango-music, in order to not inspire the people to dance.
(Although there are people who would dance to everything. But: Manuel, not everywhere in Europe the people like dancing to "alternative music
= crap" in milongas. In our region you may hear a tanda of Salsa once in a while or a Chacarera. And there are places, where you would
never-ever hear anything else than tangos, milongas or walzes composed before 1950. Mine, for example. Well, we're kind of purists. ;-) But
hey, everyone else, I don't want to start a discussion about that now, I respect anyone having other preferences... ;-)
3. Cortinas have to be short. Very short. One minute is too long!!!! People want to dance and not to stand and chat. Especially not, when they
just danced with their favourite partner, were "carried away by emotion" and did't want to stop right now. Imagine the poor ones standing
there, not knowing what to talk (your favourite dancepartner may not be your favourite discussion partner - not in this moment, though), not
knowing were to put their hands... Very frustrating, isn't it?
So please all DJ's in and outside the states: Play short cortinas or leave them. You don't have to adopt every argentine custom! ;-)))
Bye,
Melina
__________________
www.tangodesalon.de
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:38:15 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Cortinas
I would like some discussion on the item previously mentioned (apologies to
author, don't remember who) about playing a single cortina throughout the
evening at a milonga, vs. playing several different cortinas during the
night. What do people see as the pros/cons? I've seen it done both ways.
Thanks,
J
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:44:00 -0400
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Cortinas and other Crap ;-)
----Original Message Follows----
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:23:08 EDT
From: Crrtango@AOL.COM
Subject: Cortinas
Jayrabe wrote:
<<I would like some discussion on the item previously mentioned (apologies to
author, don't remember who) about playing a single cortina throughout the
evening at a milonga, vs. playing several different cortinas during the
night. What do people see as the pros/cons? I've seen it done both ways.>>
It is done both ways in Buenos Aires although I rarely heard it done with the
same one the entire night. The same one may be repeated often but usually
the DJ will play around a little with it. The night I went to La Nacional for
example, the DJ played only snips of Beatles songs between sets, but each
different.
Also I think a few people on the list might be confusing cortinas with the
music breaks that will occur like a salsa break or such. A lot of milongas in
Bs. As. will play a 15-20 minute set of rock, or indigenous, or maybe salsa just
like here, but that is not a cortina.
As someone pointed out cortinas are always very short (maybe 15 -30 secs
max.) and just meant to "clear the mood" before starting the next set. They are
always non-tangos and often non-latin music. What I think is more lacking at
some of the milongas here in the states is not following the pattern of sets of
tangos, waltzes, and milongas that the cortina separates. So is is only
natural that the cortina will not make as much sense in that context. Not all
milongas there followed a strict pattern in terms of number of songs played in a set
but the entire set of the three (tango, waltz, milonga) was always punctuated
by the cortina. Also the floor would always completely clear and people would
return to their seats as it played. No one would hang out on the floor and
talk or wait for the next song. They always started fresh each time - sort of a
tango tabula rasa.
cheers,
Charles
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 12:54:32 -0800
From: Dan Boccia <redfox@ALASKA.NET>
Subject: Re: Cortinas
Hi everyone -
Cortinas have a very important role in the milongas. Here are some of
my observations after DJing everything from casual afternoon milongas
with 15 people in attendance to DJing at major festivals with over 300
people in attendance, to DJing 9-hour long all-nighters. I believe the
tanda/cortina format is usually the best way to play music for milongas,
not because it is the tradition in Bs As, but simply because it works
the best, period. I've talked to lots of dancers and other DJs about
all this at length, and we seem to all be more or less in agreement.
1. Cortinas should be as carefully selected and managed as the
tandas.
2. Using the same cortina all night has proven to be very boring
and does not add to the energy of the evening. You'll hear a cortina
about 5 times per hour in an average milonga - if the milonga is 4 hours
long, you'll hear it 20 times, and it just gets old after awhile, even
the nicest, most neutral one. In an all-nighter that lasts 8+ hours,
you'll hear it 40 times!! It's more fun to mix the cortinas up a bit,
without getting too carried away. I often have people say they enjoy my
cortinas, and I've heard people compliment other DJs for their cortinas
as well.
3. The length of the cortina is not fixed - it totally depends on
several factors, including: number of people in the milonga, layout of
the room (i.e. how easy it is to walk off the floor), whether you want
to totally clear the floor or not, whether people are really focused on
dancing or if they want to talk and visit more, etc. Sometimes the
cortina is as short as 20 seconds (on rare occasion); sometimes it is as
long as 2 minutes (on rare occasion). Typically I find that something
around 45 seconds is average. Sometimes it's nice to play longer
cortinas to clear the floor and mix the social energy up in the milonga.
If there's about to be a performance and you REALLY need to clear the
floor, you'll be glad you have a cortina available that is 2 minutes
long. If it's a casual afternoon milonga in your hometown, the mood
often turns into a friendly "social" where it's just as enjoyable to sit
around and talk as it is to dance, and thus the DJ is wise to choose
mellow, longer cortinas so everyone can relax and talk. Sometimes
you're trying to create a mood, and you may not want to break the mood,
so a short, neutral cortina is in order, or perhaps a longer tanda, say
as long as 6-8 songs (on rare occasion). If everyone is looking at you
with an anxious look on their faces, you might want to think about
cutting the cortina off and playing a tango!! Sometimes you couldn't
clear the floor if you tried, so just cut the cortina off, play another
tango and let the people dance!
4. The cortina clearly needs to be a cortina, recognizable by
everyone as such. If you play something that is too danceable, you'll
only confuse the dancers. The DJ needs to be consistent so the dancers
can focus on dancing, rather than having to second-guess the DJ.
5. You don't have to use a different cortina EVERY time. Sometimes
I use as few as 4-5 in a night, other times I use 15 or more, it just
totally depends on the situation.
The final answer is that it all depends and there cannot possibly be one
hard, fast rule when we're talking about a highly variable social
situation involving a room full of dancers.
Dan Boccia
Anchorage, AK
www.tangotrance.com
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:19:00 -0800
From: Suzanne Gamble <gigi1898@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Cortinas
Hi List,
I liked Nancy's cortina story about the dj who watched the crowd response
and played a samba tanda later in the evening. I think cortinas can be,
like my friend the cook says, salad to "scour your maw".
Clear out one orchestra, and have your ears ready clean for the next.
I also agree with Dan - having different cortinas of varying lengths
gives the dj room to respond to the mood and circumstances.
Also with a great dj, the cortina for me is like the cracker jack prize -
the toy at the bottom of the tanda. I like to hear what they choose.
Gigi
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:22:47 +0200
From: "Kohlhaas, Bernhard" <bernhard.kohlhaas@SAP.COM>
Subject: Re: Cortinas
Hello Dan,
I liked your comments a lot. I'd like to add a few comments from my admittedly
very limited experience as a DJ.
> 1. Cortinas should be as carefully selected and managed as the
> tandas.
No doubt about that. One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, is that the sound level
of most classic tango recording is much softer than modern music.
With most of the cortinas I used, I actually had to use a sound editor to
shrink the music amplitude by about 50%. If you don't, even the softest
cortina might be a rude awakening after a tanda of Fresedo or Caló.
When editing a cortina I also find it important, is how to fade the cortina out,
it should leave the impression of "openness" and anticipation, so I usually start
the fade out with the beginning of a new musical phrase.
> 2. Using the same cortina all night has proven to be very boring
> and does not add to the energy of the evening. You'll hear a cortina
> about 5 times per hour in an average milonga - if the milonga
> is 4 hours long, you'll hear it 20 times, and it just gets old after awhile, even
> the nicest, most neutral one. In an all-nighter that lasts 8+ hours,
> you'll hear it 40 times!!
At various occasions I've tried both, and found that it really depends on the
cortina. I have one that I'll happily use during a three hour milonga, but
with others I felt the need for a change after about an hour.
> 3. The length of the cortina is not fixed
[...]
> Sometimes the cortina is as short as 20 seconds (on rare occasion);
> sometimes it is as long as 2 minutes (on rare occasion).
> Typically I find that something around 45 seconds is average.
When selecting a song for a cortina I tend to create cortinas in different
lengths from that song, usually around 20 seconds, 30 seconds and 45 seconds.
In my situation I found so far that 30 seconds is about average, since a lot
of people are not changing partners during a cortina. Having three different
lengths of the same cortina gives me the opportunity to adjust, if I find that
it is too short or too long, without it being noticeable for the dancers.
> 5. You don't have to use a different cortina EVERY time.
> Sometimes
> I use as few as 4-5 in a night, other times I use 15 or more, it just
> totally depends on the situation.
I also found that it adds a nice tough if the cortinas are linked thematically or in mood,
i.e. one time I used 3 cortinas created from different pieces of the "Chocolat"
movie soundtrack.
What I also found useful for variation to take cortinas from different parts of a song,
i.e. one cortina with the main theme, one cortina with the main theme leading into a progression etc.
This adds variation, but there is still enough recognition factor, so that the dancers (hopefully)
don't get confused.
Bernhard
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:39:17 -0400
From: rtara <rtara@MAINE.RR.COM>
Subject: Re: Cortinas
Iusually get to Argentina once a year, or so. I know I've returned when I
hear the cortina from Nino Bien as I exit my taxi.
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 12:37:01 -0400
From: "Jake Spatz (TangoDC.com)" <spatz@tangoDC.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Cortinas
To: tango-L@mit.edu
I'm still a novice DJ, but I use cortinas between 30 and 45 seconds,
depending on how much I need to clear the air between tandas. If I
really need to reset the mood, I follow the advice I got from Yesim
Sezer ("La turca" in NYC), and play Fresedo; you can get to him from any
direction, and depart in any direction.
I'm also of the opinion that using various cortinas adds a nice element
to the mix. I try never to use the same one twice in a row.
The DJ I usually work with on Wednesday nights at Divino (Yulia
Kriskovets) always plays the same cortina before an intermission (but
never at any other time), and most dancers appear to recognize it as a
signal-- i.e., time for announcements, perhaps a performance, and a
lyrics reading. It's a nice touch.
Jake Spatz
DC
WHITE 95 R wrote:
> I use cortines of anywhere from 30 seconds to a couple of minutes. Probably
> they should be no longer than a minute, although the length of the milonga
> would have a big impact on that. An all-night milonga for instance would be
> fine for longer cortinas, while a shorter milonga would be a bad place to
> waste time with non-danceable music.
>
> Manuel
>
>
>
>> From: "Dani Iannarelli" <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu>
>> Subject: [Tango-L] Cortinas (not the old car from the '70s)
>> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 16:07:59 +0100
>>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> With regard to the 'refresh' button for the milonga dance floor :-) .ie
>> cortinas :-)
>>
>> Just wondering what members would consider the optimum length?
>>
>> Very best wishes
>>
>> Dani - <https://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm73369GB>
>>
>> 'El Zorro de Tango' :-):-):-)
>> Website:
>> https://www.tango-la-dolce-vita.eu <https://www.tango-la-dolce-vita.eu/>
>> Yahoo Group:
>> Online photogalleries:
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/club_tango-la-dolce-vita/
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2006 05:59:13 +1000
From: "Tango Tango" <tangotangotango@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Cortinas
To: spatz@tangodc.com
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
<9fb1555a0610051259y5f84199elbf149ddeb6e22ee7@mail.gmail.com>
DJs in North America do not understand what a cortina is for. That's why
they don't play them, play them incorrectly or chose the wrong music.
The answer to the question about the length of a cortina is as follows: The
length of the cortina should be long enough for all dancers to clear the
floor, sit down at their respective tables, have a sip of wine, put their
glasses back on and look around to see where their next prospect may be
sitting.
As such, having cortinas shorter than 1.5 minutes simply isn't appropriate.
There are no exceptions to this.
There are a lot of people in the US (mainly from Ann Arbor, NYC, Dallas and
Portland) that are profiting from DJing around the country. Every single one
of these people do not understand the concept of cortinas.
Please do not look to those who DJ incorrectly for inspiration. Go to Buenos
Aires to learn.
Neil
On 10/6/06, Jake Spatz (TangoDC.com) < spatz@tangodc.com> wrote:
>
> I'm still a novice DJ, but I use cortinas between 30 and 45 seconds,
> depending on how much I need to clear the air between tandas. If I
> really need to reset the mood, I follow the advice I got from Yesim
> Sezer ("La turca" in NYC), and play Fresedo; you can get to him from any
> direction, and depart in any direction.
>
> I'm also of the opinion that using various cortinas adds a nice element
> to the mix. I try never to use the same one twice in a row.
>
> The DJ I usually work with on Wednesday nights at Divino (Yulia
> Kriskovets) always plays the same cortina before an intermission (but
> never at any other time), and most dancers appear to recognize it as a
> signal-- i.e., time for announcements, perhaps a performance, and a
> lyrics reading. It's a nice touch.
>
> Jake Spatz
> DC
>
>
> WHITE 95 R wrote:
> > I use cortines of anywhere from 30 seconds to a couple of minutes.
> Probably
> > they should be no longer than a minute, although the length of the
> milonga
> > would have a big impact on that. An all-night milonga for instance would
> be
> > fine for longer cortinas, while a shorter milonga would be a bad place
> to
> > waste time with non-danceable music.
> >
> > Manuel
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: "Dani Iannarelli" <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu>
> >> Subject: [Tango-L] Cortinas (not the old car from the '70s)
> >> Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 16:07:59 +0100
> >>
> >> Hello all,
> >>
> >> With regard to the 'refresh' button for the milonga dance floor :-) .ie
>
> >> cortinas :-)
> >>
> >> Just wondering what members would consider the optimum length?
> >>
> >> Very best wishes
> >>
> >> Dani - < https://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm73369GB>
> >>
> >> 'El Zorro de Tango' :-):-):-)
> >> Website:
> >> https://www.tango-la-dolce-vita.eu <https://www.tango-la-dolce-vita.eu/>
> >> Yahoo Group:
> >> Online photogalleries:
> >> https://www.flickr.com/photos/club_tango-la-dolce-vita/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:13:50 -0400
From: "WHITE 95 R" <white95r@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Cortinas
To: tangotangotango@gmail.com, spatz@tangodc.com
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
>DJs in North America do not understand what a cortina is for. That's why
>they don't play them, play them incorrectly or chose the wrong music.
I don't agree with your statement. *Some DJ* might not understand the
purpose of the tandas/cortinas, but it's not useful to make such blanket
statements.
>The answer to the question about the length of a cortina is as follows: The
>length of the cortina should be long enough for all dancers to clear the
>floor, sit down at their respective tables, have a sip of wine, put their
>glasses back on and look around to see where their next prospect may be
>sitting.
>
>As such, having cortinas shorter than 1.5 minutes simply isn't appropriate.
>
>There are no exceptions to this.
What you say is not necessarily true nor germaine to every milonga. The
original purpose of the cortinas was to get the patrons to quit dancing and
go to the bar and order drinks. It turns out that the cortina and tanda
system works out quite well to make the milongas work smoothly
>
>There are a lot of people in the US (mainly from Ann Arbor, NYC, Dallas and
>Portland) that are profiting from DJing around the country. Every single
>one
>of these people do not understand the concept of cortinas.
Neil, I don't like your hostile, agressive attacks on people. If you don't
care for a particular DJ or another, vote with your feet and avoid the
milonga. If you feel the need to personally criticize the DJ personally, at
least do it to their face and take the consequences.
>Please do not look to those who DJ incorrectly for inspiration. Go to
>Buenos
>Aires to learn.
>
>Neil
Use whatever or whomever you like and go anywhere you like. The DJing you do
will speak for itself and you'll either sink or succeed. It's good to go to
BAires and learn the genuine article, but it's not necessary. There are
plenty of excellent DJs here in the USA. You just got to find them.
Manuel
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2006 18:03:43 -0600
From: dschmitz@magellan.teq.stortek.com (Dave Schmitz)
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Cortinas
To: tango-l@mit.edu
wrote Neil:
> >There are a lot of people in the US (mainly from Ann Arbor, NYC, Dallas and
> >Portland) that are profiting from DJing around the country. Every single
> >one
> >of these people do not understand the concept of cortinas.
replied Manuel:
> Neil, I don't like your hostile, agressive attacks on people. If you don't
> care for a particular DJ or another, vote with your feet and avoid the
> milonga. If you feel the need to personally criticize the DJ personally, at
> least do it to their face and take the consequences.
Hmmmm.
'hostile' his verbiage is not.
'strong' yes, but 'hostile' not.
BTW, Neil does vote with his feet.
Which means the ladies lose out.
So on the DJ is the blame.
> Use whatever or whomever you like and go anywhere you like. The DJing you do
> will speak for itself and you'll either sink or succeed. It's good to go to
> BAires and learn the genuine article, but it's not necessary. There are
> plenty of excellent DJs here in the USA. You just got to find them.
Neil an excellent DJ is.
To BA many times he has been.
