2369  "Do not ever step backward into the line of dance."

Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:09:40 -0700
From: Philip Seyer <philipseyer@ILOVEMUSIC.COM>
Subject: "Do not ever step backward into the line of dance."

Michael wrote: "Do not ever step backward into the line of dance."

Hmmm. I do that all the time and really enjoy it, perhaps because I am such
a maverick. But I see no problem in dancing backward for a few steps down
the line of dance (or even against it!) Many milongeros do the same. For
example, one of Gavitto's favorites figures involves taking a series of 5
quick steps backward against the line of dance. Daniel Trenner and Pulpo
also explicitly teach steps that involve briefly dancing against the line of
dance. These steps are useful navigating tools as well as being fun to do.
They are not just stage tango.

Another well-known teacher won't admit it in public, but he has secretly
revealed that he will take 3 steps against the line of dance whenever he
gets a chance. I don't know why he won't admit it because one of the
figures he teaches contains 3-4-5 of the 8CB against the line of dance.

The key when doing these things is to make sure you have plenty of room and
that you respect the space of other dancers. Sometimes I need to wait until
all the weak Americans leave the milonga -- because they can't stand the
smoke. ;)

Confession: I need to tell you: I actually love clean air.
Phil Seyer
https://www.argentine-tango.com

NOTE: "maverick" comes from
Samuel A. Maverick died 1870 American pioneer who did not brand his calves
1 : an unbranded range animal; especially : a motherless calf
2 : an independent individual who does not go along with a group or party
https://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=maverick


----- Original Message -----

Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 19:40:41 +0000
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: "Do not ever step backward into the line of dance."

Philip Seyer wrote:
". For example, one of Gavitto's favorites figures involves taking a series
of 5

>quick steps backward against the line of dance. Daniel Trenner and Pulpo
>also explicitly teach steps that involve briefly dancing against the line
>of
>dance. These steps are useful navigating tools as well as being fun to do.
>They are not just stage tango.

"

The only step back I take and teach is when I lead volcada. Even that I do
after furitve glance to my back - usually quick turn in place.

Five quick steps back? At milonga?
Good luck.

Cheers, Oleh K.
https://TangoSpring.com

>From: Philip Seyer <philipseyer@ILOVEMUSIC.COM>
>Reply-To: Philip Seyer <philipseyer@ILOVEMUSIC.COM>
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: [TANGO-L] "Do not ever step backward into the line of dance."
>Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:09:40 -0700
>
>Michael wrote: "Do not ever step backward into the line of dance."
>
>Hmmm. I do that all the time and really enjoy it, perhaps because I am
>such
>a maverick. But I see no problem in dancing backward for a few steps down
>the line of dance (or even against it!) Many milongeros do the same. For
>example, one of Gavitto's favorites figures involves taking a series of 5
>quick steps backward against the line of dance. Daniel Trenner and Pulpo
>also explicitly teach steps that involve briefly dancing against the line
>of
>dance. These steps are useful navigating tools as well as being fun to do.
>They are not just stage tango.
>
>Another well-known teacher won't admit it in public, but he has secretly
>revealed that he will take 3 steps against the line of dance whenever he
>gets a chance. I don't know why he won't admit it because one of the
>figures he teaches contains 3-4-5 of the 8CB against the line of dance.
>
>The key when doing these things is to make sure you have plenty of room and
>that you respect the space of other dancers. Sometimes I need to wait
>until
>all the weak Americans leave the milonga -- because they can't stand the
>smoke. ;)
>
>Confession: I need to tell you: I actually love clean air.
>Phil Seyer
>https://www.argentine-tango.com
>
>NOTE: "maverick" comes from
>Samuel A. Maverick died 1870 American pioneer who did not brand his calves
>1 : an unbranded range animal; especially : a motherless calf
>2 : an independent individual who does not go along with a group or party
>https://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=maverick
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Michael Figart II" <michaelfigart@YAHOO.COM>
>To: <TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 11:07 PM
>Subject: [TANGO-L] tan-go-close?
>
>
> > Hello to all, and hope all are well,
> >
> >
> >
> > As regards to this thread, NO WAY....UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES, should any
> > follower ever be taught to immediately transfer their weight to their
> > left foot, until the leader transfers his weight to his right, settling
> > into his right hip. Sorry, Phil, but forget the "tan-go-close" of which
> > you speak. Completely and totally delete it from your library. There is
> > no such thing. And if you're talking about a leader's side-step to the
> > right followed by a back step, forget all that also. Do not ever step
> > backward into the line of dance. There is no "tango close" step....just
> > keep going, forward, forward, around, side, around....etc!
> >
> >
> >
> > If you lead a crossing step, just like any other step, it should be lead
> > so that your follower doesn't transfer her weight until you do. If you
> > lead a forward cross and keep your weight on your left foot, your
> > follower should wait; wait; wait; wait......until you either lead her to
> > continue, or change her weight, and continue.
> >
> >
> >
> > There is no "automatic" in Argentine Tango! "Saving this idea" for
> > advanced tangueras only ensures that you'll never have any. Teach
> > followers to wait, to wait, to wait, to wait! To slow you down. Always
> > wait for the next lead....never anticipating.....but always enjoying!
> >
> >
> >
> > <<<<<<<<<<<In my experience, it is best to teach beginning followers to
> > put all their weight on the left foot when going to the cross so they
> > can easily step back with the right foot into the tan-go-close.
> > Beginning dancers have a lot of trouble even understanding and being
> > aware of change of weight change. Telling them not to shift all of their
> > weight directly is too subtle, in my opinion. I think it is better to
> > save this idea for more advaned followers.>>>>>>>>>>
> >
> >
> >
> > My opinion,
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael from Texas
> >
> >
>LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.

Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:38:30 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@ENSMTP1.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: "Do not ever step backward into the line of dance."

Philip Seyer writes:

> Michael wrote: "Do not ever step backward into the line of dance."
>
> Hmmm. I do that all the time and really enjoy it, perhaps because I am such
> a maverick. But I see no problem in dancing backward for a few steps down
> the line of dance (or even against it!) Many milongeros do the same. For
> example, one of Gavitto's favorites figures involves taking a series of 5
> quick steps backward against the line of dance. Daniel Trenner and Pulpo
> also explicitly teach steps that involve briefly dancing against the line of
> dance. These steps are useful navigating tools as well as being fun to do.
> They are not just stage tango.
>
> Another well-known teacher won't admit it in public, but he has secretly
> revealed that he will take 3 steps against the line of dance whenever he
> gets a chance. I don't know why he won't admit it because one of the
> figures he teaches contains 3-4-5 of the 8CB against the line of dance.
>
> The key when doing these things is to make sure you have plenty of room and
> that you respect the space of other dancers.

What is "plenty of room?" It had better be
a mighty big plenty, like on a huge floor with
very few couples.

Ordinarily on a crowded floor, assuming everyone
knows what they're doing (I know, this might be quite
the tenuous assumption at some milongas), as far as
I'm concerned, any space that opens up between two
couples in a particular lane belongs to the trailing
couple; as a matter of fact, it is the trailing leader's
obligation to fill that space as reasonably soon as
possible (not in a frenzy, of course -- you get what
I mean) so that the ronda keeps moving and doesn't back
up behind him. What the trailing leader doesn't need
while faithfully fulfilling this duty is to crash into
some selfish clown in front of him who thinks he's
entitled to any and every iota of space that opens up,
on the floor, forwards or backwards, because he's
such a clever "good" dancer.

Okay, so maybe some clueless leader behind you
isn't moving up to take the space as he is supposed to,
and is instead just sitting there idly playing footsie
with his partner endlessly with no regard to the rest
of the floor backing up behind him. Then sure,
I suppose it's okay for the leader in front of him to
go backwards. But to me, going backwards more than
a step or maybe two (and even then, with *extreme*
caution and deference to those behind you) is almost
always inconsiderate. That space doesn't belong to you,
and is not yours to take. If people routinely do try to
take it, the ronda rapidly degenerates into a selfish
free-for-all where the most rude and aggressive dancers
"win" and everyone else loses. This will typically be
a milonga with a lot of very young dancers with little
snap-flapped pockets all over their pants. :-)

Huck

Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 15:05:44 -0700
From: Elemer Dubrovay <dubrovay@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: "Do not ever step backward into the line of dance."

Please do not say that its OK to dance backwards or against the line of
dance, we have one dancer that does that all the time, is famous for
steeping in the dancers and even scaring the ones that are careful with
him, of course we have some beginners that dance with the back steps
learned in the tango dancing clases, some of the better teachers when
teaching them say do not do this steps in a milonga.

I so Gavito in Argentina last January dancing in different milongas, I
filmed him and I did not see him dancing backwards.

So I think Michael gives a good advice: (Do not ever step backward into
the line of dance).

Elemer in Redmond

********************
On Wed, 7 Apr 2004 12:09:40 -0700 Philip Seyer
<philipseyer@ILOVEMUSIC.COM> writes:

> Michael wrote: "Do not ever step backward into the line of dance."
> Hmmm. I do that all the time and really enjoy it, perhaps because I
> am such
> a maverick. But I see no problem in dancing backward for a few steps
> down
> the line of dance (or even against it!) Many milongeros do the same.
> For
> example, one of Gavitto's favorites figures involves taking a series
> of 5
> quick steps backward against the line of dance. Daniel Trenner and
> Pulpo

Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 18:24:54 EDT
From: LGMoseley@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: "Do not ever step backward into the line of dance."

"Stepping backwards" and "stepping backwards into the line of dance" do not
have to be the same thing. Whether your stepping backwards is going to
inconvenience (or even endanger) the couple behind you depends on the direction in
which you are facing when you take the backward step. To ensure that you are
facing in a safe direction is one of the skills of navigation which all leaders
should develop over time. After all, stepping forwards without thought,
particularly in crowded milongas, can be pretty impolite too at times.

Laurie

Date: Thu, 8 Apr 2004 00:24:30 +0200
From: Alexis Cousein <al@BRUSSELS.SGI.COM>
Subject: Re: "Do not ever step backward into the line of dance."

Elemer Dubrovay wrote:

> Please do not say that its OK to dance backwards or against the line of
> dance,

No need for that first clause (although I sympathise with your
predicament -- see below).

It's not OK to step against the line of dance unless you're damn sure
there's room.

That only means it's not OK for the leader to step backwards (in
any significant way) *when he's facing the line of dance*.


--
Alexis Cousein Senior Systems Engineer
Silicon Graphics/SGI Belgium & Luxemburg
--
If I can see further, it is by standing on reference manuals.

Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 16:55:02 -0600
From: Dave Schmitz <dschmitz@MAGELLAN.TEQ.STORTEK.COM>
Subject: Re: "Do not ever step backward into the line of dance."

Elemer wrote:

> So I think Michael gives a good advice: (Do not ever step backward into
> the line of dance).

Amen!
Elemer and Michael, you are so correct!

I'm assuming that the intent is to keep the peace on the dance
floor by protecting those behind us.

To that end, I think that a truly experienced dancer knows
when such rules can be bent, such as when a little more space
is needed ahead (to guard against a known backstepper) and
there's still space behind (the couple behind has not yet
moved up). Note: "a LITTLE more space".

But beginners are not experienced, and should not be taught
any backstep-against-line-of-dance.


I'd add that one should not ever lead one's lady,
nor move oneself, into territory that one cannot see,
whether that territory includes people, chairs, tables,
walls, mirrors, razor wire, etc.

And women, please do us all a favor and refuse to dance with
chronic backsteppers, crashers, ping-pong-ers, and other disturbers
of the peace. Or, if you cannot refuse, please, at least scream
in their ears when they do something dangerous. Perhaps they'll
be better behaved once the ringing goes away.


Once, some years ago, in all total innocence and totally
without intent, I discovered a solution to errant backsteppers.
I'm not advocating that any of you intentionally try this, but
if it happens, well, then a lesson may have been delivered.

While leading my partner in a not-close-to-the-floor boleo
(yes, there had been PLENTY of room ahead of us)
a gentleman backstepped right into her
razor-sharp heels.


Cheers,
Dave

PS: I've danced next to Gavito. It was quite safe. He's totally
respectful of the space. And inspirational to boot.
I've danced next to Michael too. Another great guy to have next in line.

Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 20:17:36 -0700
From: Ricardo Tanturi <tanturi999@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: "Do not ever step backward into the line of dance."

--- Dave Schmitz <dschmitz@MAGELLAN.TEQ.STORTEK.COM> wrote:

> While leading my partner in a not-close-to-the-floor boleo
> (yes, there had been PLENTY of room ahead of us)
> a gentleman backstepped right into her
> razor-sharp heels.

If someone could step close enough, back, forward, or sideways,
to get kicked by the high boleo you led, there wss NOT "plenty of
room".
Obviously. This is worse than the guy who goes 4 or 5
steps backwards against the line of dance. It's not whether the space
is clear when you start your "whatever", it's whether the space is
reasonably assured to still be clear by the time you finish.

"Ricardo"