3544 Entradas to the milongas in Buenos Aires
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:39:23 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango@FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: Entradas to the milongas in Buenos Aires
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 11:59:30 -0400
From: "Steininger, Francine" <FSteininger@IIE.ORG>
Subject: Re: Entradas to the milongas in Buenos Aires
FWIW - I think its fair to charge tourists who only come now and then a bit more and locals who come every day less... they do have to survive, =
they are a business... and 10 pesos is only $3.5. To dance in BA, it seems worth it !
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 1:39 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] Entradas to the milongas in Buenos Aires
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 14:31:16 -0400
From: Stephane Fymat <stephane_fymat@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Entradas to the milongas in Buenos Aires
Yeah, but tourists pay $1000 airfare, $20 - $100 / night at the hotel, have
to take 2 weeks off of work (e.g. lost wages), etc. Locals don't do any of
that...
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 12:00 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Entradas to the milongas in Buenos Aires
FWIW - I think its fair to charge tourists who only come now and then a bit
more and locals who come every day less... they do have to survive, they are
a business... and 10 pesos is only $3.5. To dance in BA, it seems worth it
!
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 1:39 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] Entradas to the milongas in Buenos Aires
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 12:28:17 -0700
From: Yale Tango Club <yaletangoclub@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Entradas to the milongas in Buenos Aires
I can't believe how unbelievably CHEAP! SOME of the
listeros are and how ARROGANT, for complaining about a
price difference of 2 or 4 pesos between yourselves,
who are fortunate to live in an economy that wasn't
run into the ground by corruption and banditry, and
the locals in BA who after losing their life's
savings, now also have to put up with gringos crowding
and pricing them out of their own milongas, in
addition to crashing into them and stepping on their
ladies' toes. You should be ashamed of your first
world arrogance and unjustified indignation. If you
can plunk down USD 1000 for airfare, please also have
the class to pay the entirely reasonable USD 3
admission to the milongas without raising a stink and
embarassing the rest of us. Or else stay home, OK.
And now can we please move on to something INTERESTING
to talk about?
Tine
www.tangomuse.com
--- Stephane Fymat <stephane_fymat@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
> Yeah, but tourists pay $1000 airfare, $20 - $100 /
> night at the hotel, have
> to take 2 weeks off of work (e.g. lost wages), etc.
> Locals don't do any of
> that...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine
> Tango
> [mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of
> Steininger, Francine
> Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 12:00 PM
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Entradas to the milongas in
> Buenos Aires
>
> FWIW - I think its fair to charge tourists who only
> come now and then a bit
> more and locals who come every day less... they do
> have to survive, they are
> a business... and 10 pesos is only $3.5. To dance
> in BA, it seems worth it
> !
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Discussion of Any Aspect of the Argentine
> Tango
> [mailto:TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Janis
> Kenyon
> Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 1:39 PM
> To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: [TANGO-L] Entradas to the milongas in
> Buenos Aires
>
>
> Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 23:36:38 +0200
> From: <christian.luethen@GMX.NET>
> Subject: Re: Confiteria Ideal in Buenos Aires
>
> Janis kindly gave us an update about tourist prices
> / tourist rip-off at
> Confideria Ideal on mondays:
> On 23 Jun 2005 at 16:43, Janis Kenyon wrote:
> > Many milongas have raised the general entrada to
> eight or ten pesos.
> > I wrote about the boycott initiated against
> Alicia's milonga when she
> charged
> > tourists ten pesos. A letter from Alicia is
> published in the June
> > issue
> of
> > B.A. Tango in English on page 26 which says in
> part: I'd like to make
> > a remark to tourists. At the Monday matinees,
> tourists who live in
> > the city and who patronize the milonga pay the
> regular admission.
>
> I did not support the boycott of Alicia's milonga.
> Someone who attends her
> milonga once or twice a year will be charged ten
> pesos. I feel that's fair.
> People need to realize that milongas won't continue
> unless they are
> supported by tourism. Local dancers cannot afford
> to go everyday to
> milongas where current entradas are 7 to 10 pesos.
> It just isn't
> economically possible for most who live on a small
> fixed income. The
> general entrada on Saturday night at El Beso and El
> Cachafaz is ten pesos.
> El Beso may charge more due to the fact they are
> limited to 150; El Cachafaz
> had to raise the price last week since they still
> have the rent and
> employees to pay with fewer dancers during the
> winter months. The general
> entrada at Ideal on Thursday night is ten pesos.
> You'll be charged that
> entrada in most milongas if you aren't recognized as
> a regular.
>
> That's the way it is. There are fewer milongas than
> last year--I believe
> there are only 68 places registered with the
> government as official
> milongas.
>
> Lo de Celia is awaiting its final inspection this
> week. I don't care how
> much Celia charges, I'll pay whatever to dance at
> the milongueros' favorite
> place with the music of Daniel Borelli. We've
> missed our second home for
> six months!
>
> Janis Kenyon
> School of the Milongueros
> Buenos Aires
>
>
> should be sent to
> send the command
> "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to
> LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to
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>
>
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Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 16:51:47 EDT
From: Richard deSousa <Mallpasso@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Entradas to the milongas in Buenos Aires
Tourists and locals come to the milongas at their own volition... no body is
being forced to attend... true, tourists travel a lot longer distances but
if anyone doesn't like the admission prices of the milongas don't go!
I can't believe some are complaining about the cost... we're talking about
less than a dollar (US$) and even less for the Euro.
El Bandito de Tango
In a message dated 6/27/2005 11:41:40 Pacific Daylight Time,
stephane_fymat@YAHOO.COM writes:
Yeah, but tourists pay $1000 airfare, $20 - $100 / night at the hotel, have
to take 2 weeks off of work (e.g. lost wages), etc. Locals don't do any of
that...
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 12:00 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Entradas to the milongas in Buenos Aires
FWIW - I think its fair to charge tourists who only come now and then a bit
more and locals who come every day less... they do have to survive, they are
a business... and 10 pesos is only $3.5. To dance in BA, it seems worth it
!
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, June 24, 2005 1:39 PM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] Entradas to the milongas in Buenos Aires
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 04:06:16 -0300
From: andres amarilla <andresamarilla@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Entradas to the milongas
> In the last 15 years the entradas price have been the same, between 3
> and 10 pesos .When Club Almagro was open in 12/31/92 , that day ,and
> for a long time the entrada was 10 pesos.
>
> other places at the same price in the early 90's were La trastienda
> and paladium,
>
> the fact is in the 90's Argentinians were able to pay that when 1
> dollar was 1 peso.
>
> "Confiteria La ideal" is not a tend or a wig-wam to cry for pay 3 or 5 u$s.
>
> today inflation mades that maybe most of we can not pay today the same
> than 5 years ago .But when we had dollars in our poket, we used to pay
> 10 dollars or 10 pesos with fun.
>
> the older young.
> peace.
>
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 06:22:24 -0400
From: Shahrukh Merchant <shahrukh@SHAHRUKHMERCHANT.COM>
Subject: Re: Entradas to the milongas in Buenos Aires
I would not go to a Milonga that discriminatorily charged me more for
reasons that I considered arbitrary and were distasteful to me. Having
said that, though, I do not boycott and I do not support boycotts, since
they are a way of saying, "Let me do the thinking for you and tell you
what you should do." Tell me the facts, and I am quite capable of making
my own decision as to what I do with them, thank you.
Those who are defending this practice based on whether $10 pesos is a
reasonable price for a Milonga, or whether foreigners can or can't
afford $2 pesos more (of course anyone who can afford an airfare to
Buenos Aires can ... even an airfare from Bariloche or Neuquen, for that
matter), or how much Milongas cost in other parts of the world, are
entirely missing the point (of at least some of the rest of us).
Everything is not always reduced to money.
1. While there are indeed many cases of foreigners or non-residents
being charged more for various things (hotels, airfares, admissions to
national parks, etc., have been mentioned), there is one fundamental
difference between all these things and a Milonga that makes the latter
less acceptable:
There is a sense of "Tango family" and community at a Milonga. People
know each other, whether they be attendees or organizers or staff.
Creating class distinctions within this family damages that feeling, and
makes the Milonga a less appealing place for me, particular where the
class distinction seeks to delineate more precisely the line between
"insider" and "outsider" (an open and welcoming milonga or any sort of
community or social event should really be doing the opposite). And
apparently the vast majority of Milonga organizers in Buenos Aires
(possibly ALL others except the one in question?) seem to agree since
this practice at the one Milonga in question is an aberration.
2. There appears to be an attempt by the organizer of this Milonga to
conceal this two-tier structure. There is no sign at the entrance, and
there is double-talk about the policy in interviews that (intentionally
or otherwise) only obfuscates further.
It is this combination of (1) and (2) that to me seems particular
distasteful. And the concealing in particular creates all sorts of other
uncomfortable scenarios since the people at the admission desk have to
guess at how much to charge:
- Do all foreigners get charged more? Including, lets say, Uruguayans?
And how are they distinguished from Argentines, pray tell, in the few
seconds that it takes to buy your admission (notwithstanding that this
can be accomplished quite easily and naturally without uttering a single
word)?
- Or is it that all tourists get charged more? Does this include
tourists to Buenos Aires from other parts of Argentina? What about
tourists from Spain or Mexico who would speak fluently and perhaps look
more "Argentine" racially (oh, oh, can-of-worms alert ...), but whose
different accent may or may not be detected in the two words it takes to
seek an admission? And what about Argentines living abroad visiting
Buenos Aires?
We know that it is really neither of these. Ultimately, it is based on
(a) how you look, which includes your race and (b) how you speak (c) how
you act and (d) how the person at the desk interprets all these things.
This probably has a vaguely positive correlation in a statistical sense
with how much you care about a $2 peso difference in admission, but I
happen not to like being put into a "bin" by someone else based on these
highly subjective criteria for the purpose of being charged a different
fee. Hey, CITA charges THREE TIMES as much for foreigners as Argentines
at their Milongas (admittedly quite a different type of event) but I
have considerably less of a problem with that since their criterion is
simple: "You want the Argentine price? You produce an Argentine DNI (ID
Card)."
But this is my choice and my reasons for it. It doesn't bother me one
bit that others don't care about these factors or brush them aside or
make a strictly economic decision one way or the other on the $2 peso
difference in price. Just as long as they don't project their reasons on
others.
Shahrukh
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 12:29:05 -0600
From: Chas Gale <hotchango@MSN.COM>
Subject: Re: Entradas to the milongas in Buenos Aires
Shahrukh, perhaps you could be "ONE" of the people who steps forward to
help reduce poverty in that little corner of the globe.
Kids, No matter what it is, a product or service, if you buy more of it
you pay less for each. Cheese, ski lift passes, diapers, milongas.... It
doesn't matter what, if you buy more of them, you should expect to pay
less. It's just good business.
Chas "Buys in bulk" Gale
https://www.thetangohouse.com
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 4:22 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Entradas to the milongas in Buenos Aires
