1131  Is it Milonga?

Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 12:12:14 -0800
From: Marisa Holmes <mariholmes@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Is it Milonga?

I was listening yesterday to the recently released CD
of Castillo's milongas and candombes. Can anyone tell
me what the difference between them is musically?
Both (at least as they are labelled on the CD) are
quick, both include drums, both depend on the
dummm-da-dum-dum rhythm I had understood was
characteristic of the milonga. So - what's the
difference?

Thanks!
Marisa

Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 19:07:53 -0800
From: "Larry E. Carroll" <larrydla@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Is it Milonga?

Milonga is based on double-rhythm (two steps per measure: quick-quick) &
candombe on triple-rhythm (three steps per measure: quick-ity-quick).
Candombe step patterns are thus more like salsa/mambo, not surprising
since they come from the same ulitmate (African) source.

Of course most tango dancers do milonga steps when candombe music starts,
since almost no one teaches candombe outside Uruguay. (Omar Vega does if
you can persuade him. In fact, a lot of his tango traspie is actually
candombe snuck into tango.)

More information on candombe can be gotten from Uruguayan Web sites; it's
practically the national dance of that country. Just used www.google.com
to do a search & use the "translate" link if you don't read Spanish.

Larry de Los Angeles
https://larrydla.home.att.net

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Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 13:28:04 -0800
From: "Larry E. Carroll" <larrydla@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Is it Milonga?

Fascinating! War comes to tango! As evidenced by the following
email I just received.
______________________________

Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2003 11:41:25 -0600
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Is it Milonga?
"Larry E. Carroll" wrote:

>
> Milonga is based on double-rhythm (two steps per measure: quick-quick)

&

> candombe on triple-rhythm (three steps per measure: quick-ity-quick).
> Candombe step patterns are thus more like salsa/mambo, not surprising
> since they come from the same ulitmate (African) source.

Your ignorance is only surpassed by the hubris with which you coat it.
Do not write to me personally, unless requested. All other mail will be
deleted, unread.

Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2003 16:38:47 -0800
From: "Larry E. Carroll" <larrydla@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Is it Milonga?

Note that the email to me used a fake reply address two or three letters
different from a very nice person who uses Tanguera Alegra as her
nickname.

I was just now able to reach https://www.candombe.com (apparently down for
a few days). It includes selections from a candombe CD. To my untutored
ear it does not sound remotely like candombe as played by a tango band.

Do we have any tango musicians in TANGO-L who can explain this?

Larry de Los Angeles
https://larrydla.home.att.net

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Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 17:45:47 -0800
From: Bruno <romerob@TELUSPLANET.NET>
Subject: Is it Milonga?

In response to the question why the Candombe does not sound like the one
played by a Tango band here is what Paco Romero has to say:

"The Candombe is a foreign matter to the Tango in the way that the Candombe
has fragmented melodies, and some of the Candombes are composed carrying a
distinct and mono accompanying tone. The Milongas-Candombe are the Tango
Milonga's hybrid offshoots, which as a genre was created by Sebastian Pana
in the 1940's. These Tango Candombes have a musical structure with Milonga
percussions, but the "authentic" Candombe is a totally different thing."

Paco Romero has a website in Spanish
https://www.geocities.com/milonguero12/histotango.html I used a tranlation
program from babelfish.altavista.com but the trans lation was not accurate.

It is noteworthy to mention that Candombe is also generic for all black
dances in Rio del Plata. One type of Candombe dance called Malambo, in part,
can be heard in Mariano Mores's Taquito Militar.

Regards,

Bruno

Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 20:14:24 -0400
From: Tanguero Chino <tanguerochino@NETSCAPE.NET>
Subject: Re: Is it Milonga?

Larry E. Carroll wrote:

>I was just now able to reach https://www.candombe.com (apparently down for
>a few days). It includes selections from a candombe CD. To my untutored
>ear it does not sound remotely like candombe as played by a tango band.
>
>Do we have any tango musicians in TANGO-L who can explain this?

This reply comes a little late, but here goes.

I am not a musician, but I do know the following is generally correct. Anyone who can provide more details or correct my errors is welcome to do so.

Candombe is a form of music played mainly by the black population of Uruguay, most of which is concentrated in the capital, Montevideo. The basis of this form of music is percussion. More specifically, in its original form, candombe is drums, drums and more drums. During the Carnaval, drummers form groups of 100 or more, and participate in the parades. The most popular of these being "las llamadas", the parade through the neighbourhood of Barrio Sur where there is a large congregation of blacks.

For on-stage performances, and for recording, musicians play music with emphasis on the rhythms created by drums.

One of the most popular Candombe musicians is Ruben Rada. More info, and some music and videos can be found at www.rada.com.uy.

I also found a band called "Candombe" at the site www.mp3.com. The picture of the group did not load when I visited, but there is a list of the group and the different drums played by each.

As for candombe songs played in the milongas (Azabache and Oro y Plata are two the comes to mind), I guess they were classified as such because of the strong percussive elements in them, or because that was the way stage candombes were when the songs were written. This is strictly a guess, so any help from any Uruguayan or Argentinean is welcomed.



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Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 11:00:47 EDT
From: DocDAS@aol.com
Subject: [Tango-L] Milonga?

Sorry Keith I don't agree with not being able to do tango moves to milonga
rhythm. The secret or simply the technique of dancing to Milonga rhythm is
to step on each beat or the accented beat as some would prefer and or
double time or traspie. Doing the basic steps 1-5 followed with a molinete
looks good and is a nice variation to milonga steps/moves; and certainly fits
the rhythm. It was good enough for Pablo Pugliese when he taught it in a
work shop years ago and it works for me as well without pushing! Give it a
try and maybe you'll be less annoyed at milongas when you see other dancers
incorporating basic tango steps; unless of course they are just
inexperienced and/or bad dancers. Try it you may like it.
Dan

Keith Elshaw wrote:

> Yes, you may imagine me being slightly peeved when I see people doing
> tango moves while trying to dance milonga.
>
> I feel sorry for the women being pushed around to make something happen
> that just isn't natural.
>
> And I feel sorry for the men who just don't get it.
>
> 1-2/2-2
>
> Is not at all the same as
>
> 1 2 3 4
>
> When will teachers show the difference?

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