2596  more opinion on style

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 13:42:14 -0500
From: Frank Williams <frankw@MAIL.AHC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: more opinion on style

Interesting chatter on the subject of style...

Sergio: What differentiates tango styles is the foot work not the embrace.

Opinion 1: "Footwork" per se is more effect than cause. Folks talked
yesterday of ocho cortados - you can do one in any frame and posture, and
with almost zero floor or by cutting a huge energetic step. Neither this
"step" nor any other that I can think of is a signature of any particular
style. True, milonguero-style vocabulary may be thought to exist, but
largely as a result of the limits placed on the couple by other elements of
their chosen style.


Huck paraphrasing Steve:

> Milonguero = staccato movement, no separation for turns, apilado
> embrace with the appearance of a lean. Salon = smooth movement, a
> slight separation for turns, offset V embrace with an upright posture.

I'm going to go along with Brian and dismiss
the staccato/smooth distinction, which I believe
to be a function of interpretation varying with
the music being played rather than an indicator
of whether or not one dances ... "milonguero".


Opinion 2: I think that "milonguero style" music is necessary (but not
sufficient) for that style of tango. Teachers see HUGE variations in the
innate musicality of their students. Some never learn to hear the music,
much less interpret it. Others react to it from the very start. Some
dancers are very responsive to the particular music - era, genre or
orchestra - while some never adjust. 'Lyrical movements' (whether they fit
the music or not) in a close embrace? In my opinion (and if we're thinking
of the same thing...), Huck, that's salon.

Steve also comments:
Some couples separate slightly on turns to allow the woman to rotate her
hips through her turning steps. Other couples keep the embrace close and
the woman steps at an angle to complete her turns.

Opinion 3: In my book, it looks out of place if the follower uses much hip
rotation relative to the torso in milonguero style. It looks cleaner if
they step at an angle rather than open up the close embrace by rotating the
hips. This is an even further restriction than the concept of individual
vs. single axes. IMHO, milonguero style is always single axis, but the
space between dancers remains so close and constant and diagonal steps are
necessary. Opinion 3a: One sometimes sees higher-energy 'fancy stuff' led
in a close embrace and, technically accomplished though that may be, it
doesn't look milonguero to me. Even though the proper music may be
somewhat lively from a rhythmic standpoint, the dance is interesting because
of it's subtlety. Milonguero style should appear relaxed and calm.

Cheers to all,

F. - Mpls.

Frank G. Williams, Ph.D.
University of Minnesota
frankw@umn.edu
612-625-6441

Department of Neuroscience
6-145 Jackson Hall
321 Church St. SE.
Minneapolis, MN 55455

Department of Veterinary and Biomedical Sciences
1971 Commonwealth Ave.
St. Paul, Minnesota 55108

Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2004 16:04:18 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: more opinion on style

I would be inclined to agree with Frank that footwork is a consequence of
the embrace, if I didn't know that the nuevo dancers deliberately modified
the embrace to accomodate a wider variety of movements. It is probably
more accurate to say that the footwork and embrace are complements to each
other, and that the closeness of the embrace is not what distinguishes
salon tango from milonguero.

As I previously wrote, a number of characteristics seem to distinguish the
what are known as the milonguero and salon styles of tango in the United
States: staccato versus smooth rhythmic interpretation, apilado versus
offset V embrace, no separation versus slight separation for turns, and
forward posture versus upright posture.

Tom, Brian and Huck have all suggested in one way or another, that the
differences between these two styles might really all be considered
individual variations and musical interpretation within what is basically
a single style--tango de salon, which is danced by milongueros. Maybe it
is parsing things too finely to distinguish social styles when the primary
interest is in distinguishing between social dancing and stage dancing on
one side and between socially acceptable dancing and the dancing of street
kids on the other. I think it is largely a matter of interpretation of
what is meant by a style.

If we use style to mean an approach to dancing that has a sufficient
number of adherents who stick firmly to the listed elements and is
sufficiently different from other approaches to create incompatibilities
with other approaches, I think it is fair to regard salon and milonguero
as separate styles.

As Tom points out, the terms are not particularly clear. For instance,
salon tango has multiple meanings. At one extreme, it can refer to tango
as it was taught by Todaro, which many regard as nearly indistinguishable
from stage dancing. At the other extreme, it can refer to the tango of
Tete, which most Americans would describe as milonguero-style tango.

By the way, some dancers/teachers have integrated what might be considered
new elements into the milonguero style--such as fixed axis turns, the
volcada, change of direction in turns--and are referring to this as "nuevo
milonguero." Because these step innovations don't create
incompatibilities with the milonguero-style tango, it is probably a
stretch to regard it as a separate style.

With best regards,
Steve

Stephen Brown
Tango Argentino de Tejas
https://www.tejastango.com/