3663  Thanks for your responses - (Mixers, Taxi Dancers and single women)

Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 18:32:53 -0500
From: Susan Munoz <susanmunoz@9DOTSOLUTIONS.COM>
Subject: Thanks for your responses - (Mixers, Taxi Dancers and single women)

This is good stuff and puts another spin on the problem. The challenge
we have where I'm from is the lack of a viable tango community where
there are regular practicas, milongas, reasonable sized classes and
workshops within a 200 mile radius. I know of several women who want to
dance but there are simply no guys, save the instructor and one good
leader in the making. Outside of going out and stopping traffic or
hauling them in off the street (you've got to be creative) it's
difficult for these women to continuously improve and not give up. Me?
I'm tenancious (= stubborn) enough to do whatever it takes and fortunate
enough to be able to travel to workshops and take private lessons (not
everyone has the ability to do that).

Tine -- I absolutely loved your response -- especially the cost-benefit
analysis part! [That's how I would feel if I were a guy.] You mention
a guy could be thinking "those good followers are not interested in
dancing with me..." You could not be more right on. My partner is
relatively new (1 year) and more senior in age. We went to Atlanta; he
looked around and said, "ain't no way I'm getting out there and making a
fool out of myself and embarrassing the woman!" A group of women
overheard me sharing this with a friend. One of the women excused
herself and came over (a nice Argentine lady, a good dancer, and a
little older than the 20-30 set) and said, "I don't know who you're
talking about but I'd give anything if he'd ask me to ask! I'd like to
just walk around the floor; surely he can do that!" This was a woman we
had met the evening before at dinner -- she sat at our table and
unfortunately she sat there night after night with only a dance or two.
I had suggested to my partner to go ask her and the very response I was
sharing with my friend was the reaction I received when I suggested it.
It wasn't that he didn't want to dance with her, but rather he was
afraid. Later, I mentioned it to someone else and the guy said, "let me
share a little feedback with you: I tried to get some women to go ask
him to dance and they said, 'No way; he's aloof. He think's he's too
good to dance with us!'" HUH??!!!! Aloof?! Too Good?!! You're
kidding me! The man was scared to death!

In no way am I suggesting to sign up as couples only. My thought
(actually more of a wondering question) was if the revenue from the
single women were not there, would it make a big impact and if so,
wouldn't it behoove us to come up with solutions if there were a problem
within a particular community, class, workshop, festival, etc. I was
hoping that out of 1,200 subscribers to Tango-L, that together, we could
come up with some good ideas. Maybe it has already been rehashed on
Tango-L but either I missed it or it was before my time.

Manuel, I don't know where you live, but there's a truck load of women
headed your way; we'll even out the gender imbalance in a hurry!
(Kidding!) I think you made some really good points that besides
continuously improving your dancing skills, to also expand your social
network. One of the biggest things I think is to also not forget to
smile and look like you're enjoying yourself -- much easier said than
done! I have a pouty mouth, the smile line turns down like a snauzer
pup, so it looks like I'm frowning when actually I'm quite happy;
sometimes I'm squinting to see so my brows are furrowed; dang, now I
look downright mad! Then I remember this awesome private E-mail I got
from someone on Tango-L who suggested being emotionally available was
the secret. Heck, if I were any more available, I'd have "easy" written
across my forehead! [Please don't misinterpret that comment!!!!] It
feels like I've sat here for 4 hours, 57 minutes and 44 seconds
(actually it's only been half of one song). I did the eyebrow and
tilted head thing for what seemed like 30 minutes and that did no good,
so finally I said to myself, the hell with this, and got up the courage
to walk around the dance floor (it was 6 miles around and everybody was
watching) and swallowed hard as I asked this guy if he would like to
dance. His response? I'm sorry; I'm gay and so I don't dance with
women at milongas! The trip back around the dance floor? L-o-n-g! 132
miles, to be exact!

All I know is that I want to be like that little ole' lady that dances
every dance in Denver at the Mercury Café. She's dancing with guys
that's got to be 60-20 years her junior -- no one there is even close to
her age -- and she can only start to sit down when two guys are
competing for the next tanda. Whatever she's got, I want some of it!
Maybe it's approachability and willing to be vulnerable; maybe it's that
she is emotionally available or maybe it's because she's living life to
the fullest!

Hoping to see you at Meet-in-the-Middle or at Denver on Labor Day

Susan

Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 21:37:18 -0400
From: Michael <tangomaniac@CAVTEL.NET>
Subject: Re: Thanks for your responses - (Mixers, Taxi Dancers and single women)

Susan wrote
(My friend) looked around and said, "ain't no way I'm getting out there and making a fool out of myself and embarrassing the woman!" A =
group of women overheard me sharing this with a friend. One of the women and said, "I don't know who you're talking about but I'd give =
anything if he'd ask me! I'd like to just walk around the floor; surely he can do that!" =
This is a prime example of how men and women look at tango differently. Men see the physical aspect (the more difficult the figure, =
the better) and the woman sees the emotional aspect (I just want to be held). The problem is trying to convince men what women really want. I =
know when I started, I left milongas absolutely depressed. "I can't do paradas, morditas, nor other figures I don't even know the names." As I =
got better (OH!! It takes so l-o-n-g,) I realized that all that glitters is NOT gold!! I was obsessively jealous of these men because they could =
lead intricate figures. Then when I learned the figures, I realized that their leading wasn't so great. I could see they were pulling or pushing =
the woman into ganchos or molinetes. The men I wanted to emulate -- the women wanted to immolate!!!

Men are by nature competitive. When leaders realize they don't have to be the best, don't have to know the most, don't have to lead the most =
difficult figures, they will learn to relax. And when they relax, they will lead better. I had to undergo three years of yoga to squeeze the =
tension out of me. It came out like toothpaste out of the tube. The day I realized that my personal dancing goal should be for me to reach MY =
potential and not somebody else's, it felt like a tremendous burden had been lifted off my shoulders. There will always be dancers better than =
me. There's NOTHING I can do about it no matter how many lessons I take or how many times I attend the wonderful New York Tango Festival. I was =
measuring myself against what other dancers could do, NOT what I could accomplish. When men stop playing tango poker, trying to outbid other =
men with more figures, the dance will become more enjoyable for the women.

The best thing women can do is to encourage the men to dance and not get upset when something goes wrong. A warm, appreciative smile goes a =
long way.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
Back to packing. Leaving for Vancouver Friday and Alaska via cruise ship on Sunday.

Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2005 04:51:45 +0200
From: Fulano de tal <campanero@SHINYFEET.COM>
Subject: Re: Thanks for your responses - (Mixers, Taxi Dancers and single women)

Michael said:

> This is a prime example of how men and women look at tango differently.
> Men see the physical aspect (the more difficult the figure, the better)
> and the woman sees the emotional aspect (I just want to be held).

While it's true that some women only want to be held, this is not the case
for all women. Likewise about the men. While some do want to learn and do
all kinds of firuletes, there are plenty who just want to be held too...
These gross generalizations are more hindrance than help. All one needs to
do is read this forum to see that 99.9% of the contributors (men and
women) are strident adherents of the "just move around a little bit and
hold your partner with passion" style of dance. Nothing wrong with that
mind you, but it just simply isn't true that men all want to do firuletes
and women want to just be held. I guarantee you that the better women
dancers love to dance with skilled and talented men dancers. I promise you
that very few women indeed will rather dance with a regular so-so guy than
with one of the teachers or best male dancers.

It's perfectly understandable that a new, unskilled dancer would be
totally intimidated by the better dancers at a milonga. It would be much
more unusual for someone who never danced a step of tango except for the
intro lesson they just took to just take to the floor like a big fish to a
school of minows....

-c





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Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2005 20:01:14 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@ENSMTP1.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thanks for your responses - (Mixers, Taxi Dancers and single women)

Michael Ditkoff writes:

> Susan wrote
> > (My friend) looked around and said, "ain't no way I'm getting
> > out there and making a fool out of myself and embarrassing the
> > woman!" A group of women overheard me sharing this with a friend.
> > One of the women and said, "I don't know who you're talking about
> > but I'd give anything if he'd ask me! I'd like to just walk
> > around the floor; surely he can do that!"
>
> This is a prime example of how men and women look at tango
> differently. Men see the physical aspect (the more difficult
> the figure, the better) and the woman sees the emotional aspect
> (I just want to be held).

Oh deer lowered, can we 86 this sexist stuff right
now (not that we all don't fall into that trap from time
to time, myself included)? There are plenty of women who
are bored silly "just being held" and want to do fancy
ganchos, etc., and there are plenty of men who just want
to hold. Good grief. You'd have far better luck trying
to predict someone's attitude towards tango from their
full astrological chart than their gender. And no, I'm
not kidding, or trying to be disrespectful about people
who make charts, a noble endeavor.

> The problem is trying to convince men what women really want.

I love that one, "what women really want." Women,
yeah, if you know one you know them all, because they
all think alike and there's this magic formula out there
called What Women Really Want. Good luck, friend. :)

Huck