851 to wait or not to wait
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 16:06:11 +0100
From: Capella Solo <MissyLaMotte@GMX.DE>
Subject: to wait or not to wait
Hola listmembers,
today I came across an article on resolving "mistakes" meaning steps that
turn out "wrong" or other than intended by the leader.
https://www.exploredance.com/rodolfo12802.html
Rodolfo suggests here that it is a good idea for the follower to correct the
mishap with an ocho.
I would not disagree that an ocho is a nice way to come back in front of
each other and reestablish the connection after something went wrong. The
leaders I dance with use it regularly when they have "lost" me while dancing and it
works quite well. But I tend to disagree with Rodolfo's notion that it is
the job of the follower to resolve the situation more or less on her own and
without a mark from the leader. In my experience this confuses the situation
even more. Most men I talked to about this (especially when I had just started
dancing and misunderstandings were more common than they are now), told me
that they wish for the follower to wait in case something goes wrong (if her
balance allows this, which should always be the case). This gives them the
chance to come up with a solution and recover gracefully. From my experience,
this works quite well, especially with leaders trained for a social dancefloor,
who do not think in figures but dance one step at a time as space, partner
and music allows.
But my experience is rather limited, of course, I have only be dancing tango
for half a year now (though rather intensely). Therefore I am interested in
your opinions. Would you prefer for the follower to wait (or if you are a
follower yourself, for the leader to lead you out of the "mess"), or would you
like for the follower to resolve things more or less on her own, like Rodolfo
suggests?
I am looking forward to your sharing your thoughts,
Capella
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Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:24:57 -0600
From: "Frank G. Williams" <frankw@MAIL.AHC.UMN.EDU>
Subject: Re: to wait or not to wait
Friends,
One leader's opinion on 'mistakes':
Capella Solo wrote:
> Would you prefer for the follower to wait ... or would you
> like for the follower to resolve things more or less on her own,
> like Rodolfo suggests?
Waiting is mandatory, and both dancers should be willing to do it!
1. If it's the follower's dance that I'm creating but she prefers
to do something other than what I lead, then technically she's
'right'. She will shortly be in the right as she sits, which she
probably prefers. I'm fine with that...
2. How does a follower know if she blew a lead? After all, isn't
anything that CAN be danced fair to lead? Leaders blow leads all
the time! They have to recover as gracefully as they can, which
often means following the follower for a moment until the connection
is restored. But what happened to the connection in the first place?
Unless there was a slip or a tip, etc., probably somebody didn't
wait. A follower who is programmed to dance in patterns (eg.
forward-side-back-side with no 'space' or 'openness') is not so
interesting to dance with nor fully able to appreciate that which
is being created for her. If the follower will always wait, I have
all the time in the world to appreciate her dance. Waiting in a
close embrace is somewhat different from waiting in an open frame.
I tell followers that when they wait, they show what they DO
understand, not what they don't. ... a good place to start
communicating... If I rush her and she begins guessing on
the leads without waiting for them to develop, then shame on me.
Of course, the music and the frame and the personalities all matter.
3. Mistakes happen to the best dancers, it's just harder to notice
them. I don't mind 'mistakes' in the least. Most of us have heard
terrified music students in recital. They may get all the notes
and rhythms 'correct' but play totally without musical awareness.
Their fear of mistakes has killed the music. Same happens in dance.
The mistake for tango is to not express or enjoy yourself. Each
dancer must wait for their partner to perform their essential role
in creating the dance. If you need to treat each dance as a
performance, then the pressure you create is your own burden.
If we fear 'mistakes' then we can never dance as well as we might.
A follower rushing to 'fix a mistake'? No. Let it go. Don't
feel at fault. Just wait and listen to the music.
Waiting for lunch ;-) ...
Frank in Minneapolis
Frank G. Williams, Ph.D.
University of Minnesota
612-625-6441
Department of Neuroscience
6-145 Jackson Hall
321 Church Street SE
Minneapolis, MN 55455
Department of Veterinary Pathobiology
205 Veterinary Science
1971 Commonwealth Ave.
St. Paul, MN 55108
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 12:05:50 -0800
From: Jonathan Thornton <jnt@NOYAU.COM>
Subject: Re: to wait or not to wait
On Mon, 11 Nov 2002, Frank G. Williams wrote:
> Friends,
>
> 3. Mistakes happen to the best dancers, it's just harder to notice
> them. I don't mind 'mistakes' in the least. Most of us have heard
> terrified music students in recital. They may get all the notes
> and rhythms 'correct' but play totally without musical awareness.
> Their fear of mistakes has killed the music. Same happens in dance.
> The mistake for tango is to not express or enjoy yourself. Each
> dancer must wait for their partner to perform their essential role
> in creating the dance. If you need to treat each dance as a
> performance, then the pressure you create is your own burden.
> If we fear 'mistakes' then we can never dance as well as we might.
> A follower rushing to 'fix a mistake'? No. Let it go. Don't
> feel at fault. Just wait and listen to the music.
Frank,
I remember how much Itzhak Perlman impressed me with this wisdom
when I was watching an interview with him on some program years ago (was
it on "60 Minutes"?). I remember the gist of it but the details have long
since faded so this is only a rough paraphrase. Itzhak told the
interviewer how a teacher had told him that if he made a mistake, a
"zinger" he called it, that is, a wrong BAD note, to make it a big zinger,
really hit it and keep going. He said the audience will forgive and forget
a few wrong notes, but they well remember a lifeless performance. If he
were to respond to the mistake by becoming more careful, more cautious,
the quality of his performance would be come tight and lifeless. So, he
plays the zingers with gusto and keeps on going.
Bob Dylan said much the same thing. The Eagles were a group known
for going into the studio and redubbing and redubbing their recordings
until they were note perfect. Dylan said something about how their music
was too predictable. Bob releases songs where he has fluffed a word or
line, but listening to it, one understands that it's a great performance,
one or two mistakes won't change that, whereas all the perfection in the
world can't make up for a lifeless unfelt performance.
Thanks for the reminder, Frank!
Jonathan Thornton
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 13:14:19 -0800
From: karen corriea <kdcorriea@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: To wait or not to wait
Hola Capella and Tango Friends,
I have been dancing tango for about 3 years. I agree that it is better for the woman to wait and allow the man to correct a situation when you feel that the connection has been lost.
Trying to find the connection again by taking steps on my own initiative is contrary to tango. This point seems especially clear to me after dancing in Buenos Aires for a year now. Since it is the man's responsibility to lead it not only is logical but also physcially more comfortable to maintain this code of tango and allow him to have the control at this point as well.
My responsibility as a follower is always to wait for the lead and therefore it feels very out of place and uncomfortable to take steps on my own. I wait quietly so that he will know where my weight is, and be better able to decide how to "correct" and dance on. Though the flow of steps was momentarily interrupted, the connection can be quickly regained. By waiting quietly I am communicating to him, showing my intention to maintain a connection, and doing my part to continue the flow of the dance as efficiently as possible. The lapse in flow is less noticeable, less of a distraction. Not a problem. Thus the emphasis at this point is not on the lapse but on the connection.
Taking steps on my own to try to reconnect with my partner may cause more confusion for my leader and greater disruption. Nobody likes to have a lapse in connection, but a moment is not so bad as several seconds.
In classes this past week I heard from Tango masters - "Don't think followers, just feel". Wait and feel your leader's intention for movement.
Another subject - When follower and leader are in agreement to be sensitive to the followers initiative to add her own creative improvisations within the dance. I don't mean adornments, but actually taking the lead for a moment or longer.
Karen Corriea
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Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 15:08:52 -0800
From: Elemer Dubrovay <dubrovay@JUNO.COM>
Subject: To wait or not to wait
Friends,
One leader's opinion on 'mistakes':
Capella Solo wrote:
> Would you prefer for the follower to wait ... or would you
> like for the follower to resolve things more or less on her own,
> like Rodolfo suggests?
Waiting is mandatory, and both dancers should be willing to do it!
1. If it's the follower's dance that I'm creating but she prefers
to do something other than what I lead, then technically she's
'right'. She will shortly be in the right as she sits, which she
probably prefers. I'm fine with that...
2. How does a follower know if she blew a lead? After all, isn't
anything that CAN be danced fair to lead? Leaders blow leads all
the time! They have to recover as gracefully as they can, which
often means following the follower for a moment until the connection
is restored. But what happened to the connection in the first place?
Unless there was a slip or a tip, etc., probably somebody didn't
wait. A follower who is programmed to dance in patterns (eg.
happen to the best dancers, it's just harder to notice
them. I dforward-side-back-side with no 'space' or 'openness') is not so
interesting to dance with nor fully able to appreciate that which
is being created for her. If the follower will always wait, I have
all the time in the world to appreciate her dance. Waiting in a
close embrace is somewhat different from waiting in an open frame.
I tell followers that when they wait, they show what they DO
understand, not what they don't. ... a good place to start
communicating... If I rush her and she begins guessing on
the leads without waiting for them to develop, then shame on me.
Of course, the music and the frame and the personalities all matter.
***8
Unfortunately, he is somebody you will no enjoy dancing with
.....whatever happened to
gentlemanly courtesy? I am reacting to his #1 statement, where he says,
essentially, it's my way or the highway!!!!
I agree that a follower that anticipates is probably extremely unpleasant
to
dance with, but a lead that is not clear will always result in the follow
having to do a certain amount of "guessing." Some men have perfect
leads,
but they tend to be very experienced dancers. In less experienced men, I
find that their leads can sometimes be confusing. If the follower then
makes a "mistake" I think that the man should ask himself first if his
lead
was clear; if it was not, and his partner is not an anticipatory dancer,
then he needs to improve his lead.
Diana, friend of Elemer from Redmond
The mistakes are always the leaders fault, they don't have a clear lead,
they don't wait, they don't follow the music, and if the lady is not a
good dancer, why they invited her to dance?.
Please put this lines in your shoe bag, to make them easy to read next
time you go to dance.
Elemer
