4533  Embellishment Queens

Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:04:39 -0300
From: Deby Novitz <dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Embellishment Queens
To: tango-l@mit.edu

This happens because every so called Tango Diva that visits the U.S. and
elsewhere teaches a workshop on adornments and embellishments for
women. So women learn the brushes, the circles, the what evers. Then
they try to use every single one in a dance because then they think they
will look like (take your pick) Geraldine, Guillermina, Alexjandra,
Graciela....They think (my sense anyway..) that using all these
adornments make them look "professional".

The statement that I get the most from women is "I want my feet to look
like yours" followed by "Can you teach me how to do make my feet like
yours?" or the variation " I have taken so many classes on adornments
and I still cannot do them."

Once again...it is the music...I only do embellishments if the music
asks for it. I use them sparingly. Sometimes never in a dance,
sometimes several times, and NEVER if my lead does not permit it. A
woman should never dance against the lead or on her own. (Yes, I know,
we had this discussion last month) If a woman does not know the music
and she starts throwing in all these adornments, not only does it look
awkward, it throws off her partner. I have yet to see a class where the
adornments are taught as part of musicality.

Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 20:12:34 +0100 (BST)
From: Andrew RYSER SZYMA?SKI <arrabaltango@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: [Tango-L] Fwd: Embellishment Queens
To: tango-uk <tango-uk@yahoogroups.com>, Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>


--- Deby Novitz <dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com> wrote:

> Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 14:04:39 -0300
> From: Deby Novitz <dnovitz@lavidacondeby.com>
> To: tango-l@mit.edu
> Subject: [Tango-L] Embellishment Queens
>
> This happens because every so called Tango Diva that
> visits the U.S. and
> elsewhere teaches a workshop on adornments and
> embellishments for
> women. So women learn the brushes, the circles, the
> what evers. Then
> they try to use every single one in a dance because
> then they think they
> will look like (take your pick) Geraldine,
> Guillermina, Alexjandra,
> Graciela....They think (my sense anyway..) that
> using all these
> adornments make them look "professional".
>
> The statement that I get the most from women is "I
> want my feet to look
> like yours" followed by "Can you teach me how to do
> make my feet like
> yours?" or the variation " I have taken so many
> classes on adornments
> and I still cannot do them."
>
> Once again...it is the music...I only do
> embellishments if the music
> asks for it. I use them sparingly. Sometimes never
> in a dance,
> sometimes several times, and NEVER if my lead does
> not permit it. A
> woman should never dance against the lead or on her
> own. (Yes, I know,
> we had this discussion last month) If a woman does
> not know the music
> and she starts throwing in all these adornments, not
> only does it look
> awkward, it throws off her partner. I have yet to
> see a class where the
> adornments are taught as part of musicality.

Too true! It's so upsetting when you dance with a
woman who thinks she can only assert herself by
cramming in as many times she can the same 3-4
embellishments as often & as mechanically as possible
without paying any attention to the music! Only 5% of
the population are tone deaf [amusia]; do they all
dance tango?

After all, the biomechanical function of
embellishments is to re-establish your balance
[usually by widening your base of support]- what do a
lot of adornos say about your sense of balance?

Cheers,

Andy.

>

Andrew W. RYSER SZYMA?SKI,
23b All Saints Road,
London, W11 1HE,
07944 128 739.

Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 15:53:20 -0400
From: "WHITE 95 R" <white95r@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Fwd: Embellishment Queens
To: arrabaltango@yahoo.co.uk, tango-uk@yahoogroups.com,
tango-l@mit.edu

>Too true! It's so upsetting when you dance with a
>woman who thinks she can only assert herself by
>cramming in as many times she can the same 3-4
>embellishments as often & as mechanically as possible
>without paying any attention to the music! Only 5% of
>the population are tone deaf [amusia]; do they all
>dance tango?

The problem with too many "adorno queens" is not so much that they perform
so many adornos in a repetitive and autonomous fashion. This is bad enough
to be sure, but the real problem behind this symptom is that they have not
learned some basic tango steps and have not learned the core of tango. I
think that some ladies overdo adornos or do them regardless of the lead
because they simply don't know how to dance very well. They've learned to do
adornos in lieu of learning the lead & follow or the code of the tango.

This is also a problem with men who confuse the lead & follow and the tango
dance with a the performance of a bunch of disconnected or poorly placed
steps. Usually something they learned in some workshop by a famous
teacher/performer. I do not blame the teachers of these workshops, after
all, most of these workshops are geared and advertised to the more advanced
dancers who can learn more technique and perfect their dance by applying the
principles behind the workshop material. The problem is that the over-eager
beginner or intermediate level students rush to these classes, mimic the
instructor without true understanding of the technique and principles, and
then proceed to make the half learned figure a part of their repertory.

When I have students who are really talented or who dedicate themselves to
learn, I often ask them to make their figures smaller, more subtle and
precise. It's amazing how much of a challenge that can be. This is of course
much more important to the less experienced student. Personally, I really
believe that the key to the tango dance is the music and the understanding
of the music. I spend a lot of time teaching and explaining the simple parts
that make the heart of the dance. For me, if a person can reliably walk a
few steps, lead or follow back ochos and simple partial turns to the left
and the right, he or she is well on their way to being a good tango dancer.
Practically all the firuletes, amagues, adornos, etc. are actually
impediments to learning for a beginner. These are generally very difficult
to do properly if the students don't have a command of the rhythmic dance.

When I dance with a woman who exhibits these undesirable traits, I try to
accommodate her and give her places to do her shtick so it does not look bad
or feel bad. The main thing for dancing the man's part in these cases is to
make sure that her dancing interferes with the lead in the least perceptible
way from the inside. Also, try not to lead anything that produces unexpected
of awkward results. This can be done after a few leads are misinterpreted of
ignored. Just go along with the woman and try to finish the dance (or tanda
if you're chivalrous) without looking too bad as this hurts both partners.

Cheers,

Manuel

Date: Thu, 27 Jul 2006 20:15:19 -0600
From: "Chas Gale" <hotchango@msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Fwd: Embellishment Queens
To: "Tango-L" <tango-L@mit.edu>

---Andrew RYSER SZYMA?SKI---
After all, the biomechanical function of
embellishments is to re-establish your balance
[usually by widening your base of support]- what do a
lot of adornos say about your sense of balance?

This is news to me. I was unaware that "the biomechanical function of
embellishments is to re-establish your balance". Can any of you learned
people shed any light on this for me?

Chas
https://www.thetangohouse.com

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 12:07:21 +0900
From: "astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Fwd: Embellishment Queens
To: "Chas Gale" <hotchango@msn.com>, "Tango-L" <tango-L@mit.edu>

It always blows me away how people state things as an obvious fact that they
don't really have a clue about and just assume to be true.

So, Andrew, you mean, when a woman does a little lapiz it is because she is
about to fall over to the side?
I remember Melina Brufman teaching us that during the calecita, if the man
puts you into the diagonal you can do circles with your left foot that
indeed do assist you in struggling against being dropped to the floor or
being dragged around in egg shapped circles by some aspiring intermediate
dancers during class...
but that is only ONE way an adorno can work, and it is really a
worst-scenario-application of it.


---Andrew RYSER SZYMAムSKI---
After all, the biomechanical function of
embellishments is to re-establish your balance
[usually by widening your base of support]- what do a
lot of adornos say about your sense of balance?

This is news to me. I was unaware that "the biomechanical function of
embellishments is to re-establish your balance". Can any of you learned
people shed any light on this for me?

Chas
https://www.thetangohouse.com

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:49:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean \(PATangoS\)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Embellishment Queens
To: tango-l@mit.edu

Hello listeros,

Having gone through an ornament phase myself, I am a lot
more forgiving of "embellishment queens" than some on this
list. Sometimes it seems that people complain too much
about dancers who are simply less experienced or
knowledgeable. That?s life at a milonga. As long as it
doesn?t interfere with the ronda or my dancing, I don?t
really care. And for guys who dance with "embellishment
queens", I suggest either don?t dance with them or do not
give them the opportunity to embellish (yes, that is
possible).

Why do women go overboard on embellishments at times?
Because they get BORED! Sometimes it is an issue of their
not hearing the music. Sometimes it is a case of
repetitious leads who are predictable. Sometimes they are
not given vocabulary to work on that can help their
technique. Almost all of the women I know who went through
this got over it, particularly when the men began to try
new things with them.

Want a solution? Try a little nuevo. Can?t do it if legs
are tense. Embellishments often causes tension in
inexperienced women.

Embellishments are quite useful for helping women with
their balance and developing greater range of motion. And
although visiting teachers may teach a lot of
embellishments, I have yet to see it cause problems in a
community. That, I think, is more of an issue of local
teachers, not visiting teachers.

Trini de Pittsburgh


PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh's most popular social dance.
https://www.pitt.edu/~mcph/PATangoWeb.htm

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:11:40 -0400
From: "TangoDC.com" <spatz@tangoDC.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Embellishment Queens
To: tango-L@mit.edu

You know,

Given how much Guys practice their junk at milongas, I don't really see
a problem with women getting into the game on their end. Plus, it
teaches the learning leader how to listen, how to leave room on purpose,
how to Not leave room on purpose...

The newly crowned embellishment queen needs time to play with her new
skills. To develop and refine them. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Not everyone has a practice partner, and not everyone can retain class
material until after the milongas (which often happen right after such
classes, in America at least).

Furthermore, all aspects of this dance need to be explored in the
musical, multi-partner, and ronda context of a milonga, not just in
practice sessions. We shouldn't frown on this, if we want dancers to
develop effectively; we should (with proper guidance) encourage it.
There is no other way to really learn HOW to do these things, except
trial by fire.

We need a little less kvetching and a little more solution when it comes
to things like this. The best way to bring people up is to cooperate
with them and constructively shape what they're doing. Don't just
partner your partner: partner the learning process.

Jake Spatz
Washington, DC

"If at first you don't succeed, redefine success."
-- Paris Hilton, "Diamond Quest" (cell-phone videogame)