2588  Embrace and Style

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:14:12 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Embrace and Style

I said : "What differentiates tango styles is the footwork not the
embrace".

Bruno answers: "Sorry Sergio but I disagree on this one big time. I believe
there is more
than the footwork and the embrace that characterize a tango style i.e.,
tango salon."

He then explains how "a good style" of dancing is developed: body posture,
upright position, elegance, etc. (see his note).

I was referring to the fact that during my trips, I noticed that people
think that they dance "milonguero" only because they use a "close embrace".
When I pay attention to their foot work they are dancing typical "Salon" in
a close embrace.

I am certain that posture, embrace, elegance, way of walking, etc, are part
of an individual's style, I am in accordance with Bruno in that respect.

John says: "As explained to me in BsAs last year by a long-time Tango
dancer:

" Milonguero Style: characterised by a very close embrace and small
tickety-tick footwork, including Ochos
Cortados
(taught by "Suzanna Miller" under the name
"Close Embrace" style ;also called Apilado Style. A small minority of people
dance this style in Bs.As. but it is gaining popularity again."

Salon: characterised by an open embrace, and more open footwork steps
such as fwd/bkwd Ochos, Molinettes, Walks,
Sacadas, Ganchos, Boleos,etc.

Mixed: The style danced in BsAs by the majority of Tango dancers, using
the close embrace posture/hold, but dancing Salon steps.

I'm sure this will get some flames, but this not my definition. This came
from "the horse's mouth" so to speak."

My opinion is as follows, some people may have a different posture with
respect to this subject.

John's interpretation is objective and to some extent correct. What it is
not correct is to think that a "close embrace" characterizes a milonguero
style when actually tango salon is danced either in close embrace, in open
embrace or alternating the embrace as needed.

Open embrace is used when complicated figures require room between the
members of the couple but as soon as the figure is finished they return to a
close embrace ...(to walk for instance). Most people in Bs. As. will say
"Tango has to be danced in a very close embrace".

Some couples may dance salon in open embrace only, other couples in close
embrace only and others alternating the embrace. The degree of closeness
and type of the embrace may also vary from couple to couple. In salon the
close embrace, generally speaking, places the right nipple of the man on the
chest bone of the woman, in milonguero is not un-usual to dance perfectly
framed in front of each other nipple to nipple, this hold being altered with
as sliding movement of the chests to one side or to the other to do certain
moves.

To call a style "Mixed" because uses Salon footwork in a close embrace
(IMO)could be incorrect.

To do so would mean that those different styles always existed as such and
then at certain time one of them (salon) adopted elements of milonguero when
what actually happened was that tango originated spontaneously, in a free
fashion. There were as many styles as individuals dancing, those styles
varied from neighborhood to neighborhood and from club to club . Tango
styles, steps and figures became infinite due to freedom and improvisation.
Tango was the all inclusive word to refer to this rich variety of dancing
forms. Some clubs forbade the use of embellishments, dancers that used a
boleo or a gancho (for instance) where reprimanded, labeled as "compadritos"
and at times asked to leave. I was reprimanded myself by Francisco Santapa
once at Salon Canning for throwing a Boleo.
Other clubs allowed embellishments. Some dancing halls were so crowded that
favored the use of certain moves , this selection of moves and the needed
technique is called today "milonguero style" but as you see it derives from
a selection of moves already present in social tango or tango salon. Nobody
said I am going to invent a style to dance in crowded spaces. The genius of
Tete, Susana Miller, Cacho Dante and others was to singularize that form of
dancing and start to teach it, developing a school.

As to nuevo tango, it also uses a selection of moves already present in
social tango or salon, that is the reason the main dancers of that style
insist in calling the whay they dance : "Tango" without the word Nuevo added
to it. Perhaps the only new about it was the didactic approach used by the
main instructors (Gustavo Naveira, Fabian Salas, Chicho Frumboli) and their
students and some moves such as the "Back boleo".

Summary: Salon is danced in "Close embrace" as well.

Have a beautiful day.

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 13:53:51 -0400
From: Jennifer Bratt <gwynhefaire@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Embrace and Style

It's very interesting to talk about all the different tango styles, though
hard to pin down what exactly distinguishes a style and sometimes the lines
between styles are very blurry. I agree that dancing 'close-embrace' and
dancing 'milonguero' are not necessarily the same thing and it is true that
in Buenos Aires no one dances in an open embrace at the milongas. Even
teachers like Gustavo and Chicho who teach open-style steps in their classes
dance close when on the social dance floor.

For me, one of the things that makes me say, "oh, this guys feels so
milonguero" or "he feels...whatever else..." is not so much the steps that
he does, or the embrace that he uses, but the feeling with which he dances,
the way he emphasizes the rhythm, his quality of movement, his cadencia.
Guys who I consider 'milonguero' have a way of pouncing on the beat and you
can feel the rhythm vibrating inside them. They feel very staccato and
sharp. There is a heavy quality to their steps, as though everything is
directed down into the ground. Even their embrace has a 'down' feeling.
They may hold me a little tighter and use more compression, but not
necessarily. Guys who feel more 'salon' to me are not as staccato. Their
movements take on a smoother, flowing, more lyrical quality. Their steps
are a little lighter across the floor. A 'milonguero' guy and a 'salon' guy
may both lead an ocho cortado in a close embrace but the way each guy will
lead it feels very different. I am of course, making broad generalizations
here, based on my own opinions about what constitutes different tango
styles. Neither style is better, just different, and that's great.

[Side note: Along these same lines of style and quality of movement, I've
noticed that here in the US there is what I would consider a 'West Coast'
style -- a way of moving to the music that a lot of dancers on the west
coast (California, Oregon, Washington) have that you don't really find here
on the east coast. But that's another discussion...]

big abrazos,
Jennifer - NYC
www.close-embrace.com

>From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Reply-To: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: [TANGO-L] Embrace and Style
>Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 16:14:12 +0000
>
> I said : "What differentiates tango styles is the footwork not the
>embrace".
>
>Bruno answers: "Sorry Sergio but I disagree on this one big time. I believe
>there is more
>than the footwork and the embrace that characterize a tango style i.e.,
>tango salon."
>

Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2004 14:06:29 EDT
From: LGMoseley@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Embrace and Style

Here in the UK, the Apilado/Close Embrace/etc style is sometimes known as the
Drunken Woman style. I do not know the origin of this phrase. Can anyone
help?

Laurie

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:11:16 -0600
From: Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@TANGO.ORG>
Subject: Re: Embrace and Style

One of the most common styles of tango at milongas in the US is the
following:

Arms-length between the couple, whirling and zig-zagging around the
middle of the dance floor, music of Piazzolla or Color Tango, no
attention to the line-of-dance, lots of molinetes with sacadas,
volcadas, barridas, deep lunges, back-steps, ganchos and boleos...


My questions are:
- What style are they dancing?
- Is this Social tango (because it is at a milonga)?
- Is it Stage tango (because of all the ganchos & boleos)?
- Is this Salon style by Sergio's definition below?
- Is this style taught by Argentines or by N. American teachers?
- Do you also see this style in Europe, Japan or Argentina?

Eduardo Arquimbau describes a style called "Fantasia", which for him
means performance tango "in-the-round", as for a demonstration at a
milonga, rather than on stage where you have to choreograph toward only
one direction.

I think of the movie Fantasia, with pink elephants in tutus.



On Jul 29, 2004, at 10:14 AM, Sergio Vandekier wrote:

> I said : "What differentiates tango styles is the footwork not the
> embrace".
>
> Bruno answers: "Sorry Sergio but I disagree on this one big time. I
> believe
> there is more than the footwork and the embrace that characterize a
> tango style i.e.,
> tango salon."
> ...
> John says: "As explained to me in BsAs last year by a long-time Tango
> dancer:
>
> "Milonguero Style: characterised by a very close embrace and small
> tickety-tick footwork, including Ochos
> Cortados
> (taught by "Suzanna Miller" under the
> name
> "Close Embrace" style ;also called Apilado Style. A small minority
> of people
> dance this style in Bs.As. but it is
> gaining popularity again."
>
> Salon: characterised by an open embrace, and more open footwork
> steps
> such as fwd/bkwd Ochos, Molinettes,
> Walks,
> Sacadas, Ganchos, Boleos,etc.
>
> Mixed: The style danced in BsAs by the majority of Tango dancers,
> using
> the close embrace posture/hold, but
> dancing Salon steps.
> ...

Tom Stermitz
2525 Birch St
Denver, CO 80207
h: 303-388-2560

Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:45:50 -0700
From: Michael <michael@TANGOBELLINGHAM.COM>
Subject: Re: Embrace and Style (Satire alert!)

Satire alert! The following responses are to be read with tongue planted
firmly in cheek and do not reflect the attitudes of the majority of
dancers (I hope!), although, sadly, they do seem to reflect the
attitudes of some people I know personally. I repeat, this is a JOKE, so
please, no flames.

Tom Stermitz wrote:

> One of the most common styles of tango at milongas in the US is the
> following:
>
> Arms-length between the couple, whirling and zig-zagging around the
> middle of the dance floor, music of Piazzolla or Color Tango, no
> attention to the line-of-dance, lots of molinetes with sacadas,
> volcadas, barridas, deep lunges, back-steps, ganchos and boleos...
>
>
> My questions are:
> - What style are they dancing?

Tango Narcisista - the one *true* style.

> - Is this Social tango (because it is at a milonga)?

Who cares? It's the style that *I'm* dancing, that's the only thing that
matters.

> - Is it Stage tango (because of all the ganchos & boleos)?

Huh? The milonga is not a stage? Everybody is not looking at me? Since when?

> - Is this Salon style by Sergio's definition below?

See above - there is only *one* true style.

> - Is this style taught by Argentines or by N. American teachers?

Lessons? Who needs lessons? This is about me, me, me!

> - Do you also see this style in Europe, Japan or Argentina?
>

The only places that matter are the ones where *I'm* dancing.

/satire

Ok, maybe a bit heavy-handed, but I personally know people who do dance
exactly as Tom described and have exactly those attitudes. If you get
more than two of them on the floor at once, it's time to sit down so you
and your partner don't get mauled or run over.

--
Michael
Tango Bellingham
www.tangobellingham.com