5132 Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:31:35 -0300
From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
CLOSE EMBRACE SALON TANGO FOR EXHIBITION
Wednesday 7-9 PM Sept. 12, 19, 26
A COMPREHENSIVE APPROACH TO EXPAND YOUR SOCIAL DANCE TO EXHIBITION LEVEL...>
I give them credit for knowing what sells in the USA tango market. That's
all that is being taught (sold) these days as tango in BsAs. Is social
dancing for exhibition?
<They are true milongueros and strive to bring the milonguero culture of
Buenos Aires to their students.>
True milongueros? Writing this about themselves only proves they don't
understand the meaning of the word. Besides, no milonguero would teach for
the purpose of exhibition.
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:51:42 -0500
From: ceverett@ceverett.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>, "Tango-L"
<Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:31:35 -0300, "Janis Kenyon"
<Jantango@feedback.net.ar> said:
> CLOSE EMBRACE SALON TANGO FOR EXHIBITION
> Wednesday 7-9 PM Sept. 12, 19, 26
> A COMPREHENSIVE APPROACH TO EXPAND YOUR SOCIAL DANCE TO EXHIBITION
> LEVEL...>
Oh, it's the Jon and Judy show.
> I give them credit for knowing what sells in the USA tango market.
> That's
> all that is being taught (sold) these days as tango in BsAs. Is social
> dancing for exhibition?
Um,
Osvaldo and Coca do exhibitions regularly. They also enter contests, as
you say some of the guys on your approved milonguero list.
So the answer to your question is yes.
> <They are true milongueros and strive to bring the milonguero culture of
> Buenos Aires to their students.>
>
> True milongueros? Writing this about themselves only proves they don't
> understand the meaning of the word. Besides, no milonguero would teach
> for the purpose of exhibition.
People have to pay their bills somehow. Obviously what they've been
doing in the past does not suffice, so they are trying something new.
Christopher
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:05:13 -0500
From: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: "ceverett@ceverett.com" <ceverett@ceverett.com>
Cc: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>, Janis Kenyon <jantango@feedback.net.ar>
<cff24c340708231305s5c5602a0x41c3ffa9985ee727@mail.gmail.com>
I've noticed a trend over the past few years towards development of a new
tango market niche - close embrace with exhibition elements - volcadas,
ganchos, barridas, boleos, and the like. Sometimes a cute term like 'nuevo
milonguero' is used to link the new to the traditional. This suggests that
tango milonguero is suffering in sales in the North American (and probably
European) market, so perhaps if some compromises are made to attract
norteamericanos to something that is comfortable ('cool steps' to impress
the audience) within the familar cultural context, fueled by Hoolywood, that
places value on exhibition dancing, then dancing tango in close embrace with
exhibition elements will compete successfully for market share with nuevo
tango. However, doing this abandons the attempt to dance tango the way
nearly all porten~os do in milongas in Buenos Aires, without these
exhibition elements. (The exception is exhibition dancers recruiting
tourists for lucrative private lessons.) What this does is create a new
version of tango, which can can proudly stand beside Arthur Murray and Fred
Astaire's versions of tango as North American aberrations of tango. However,
this is not tango milonguero. Go to Buenos Aires milongas to see the real
thing. If you come back doing nuevo milonguero, at least you made an
informed decision.
Ron
On 8/23/07, ceverett@ceverett.com <ceverett@ceverett.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:31:35 -0300, "Janis Kenyon"
> <Jantango@feedback.net.ar> said:
> > CLOSE EMBRACE SALON TANGO FOR EXHIBITION
> > Wednesday 7-9 PM Sept. 12, 19, 26
> > A COMPREHENSIVE APPROACH TO EXPAND YOUR SOCIAL DANCE TO EXHIBITION
> > LEVEL...>
>
> Oh, it's the Jon and Judy show.
>
> > I give them credit for knowing what sells in the USA tango market.
> > That's
> > all that is being taught (sold) these days as tango in BsAs. Is social
> > dancing for exhibition?
>
> Um,
>
> Osvaldo and Coca do exhibitions regularly. They also enter contests, as
> you say some of the guys on your approved milonguero list.
>
> So the answer to your question is yes.
>
> > <They are true milongueros and strive to bring the milonguero culture of
> > Buenos Aires to their students.>
> >
> > True milongueros? Writing this about themselves only proves they don't
> > understand the meaning of the word. Besides, no milonguero would teach
> > for the purpose of exhibition.
>
> People have to pay their bills somehow. Obviously what they've been
> doing in the past does not suffice, so they are trying something new.
>
> Christopher
>
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:20:36 -0400
From: Carol Shepherd <arborlaw@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
Ron:
I second your observation on this trend. All dance, when it comes to
America, seems to not only gets transmogrified into something different,
it also gets turned into a competitive sport: if you view film footage
>from the jazz dancers at the old Savoy in New York, it was all about
showboating and winning the admiration of other dancers, inventing steps
and putting existing steps to new rhythms. Dancers at prominent clubs
were known for the 'shines' that they invented (shines are the American
equivalent of adornos) and the shines were named after them and carry
down in American social dance to this day: Shorty George, Suzy Cue. Jam
circles (where couples go into the center and do a short exhibition, or
dance traveling down the middle of a double line) are also very popular
in street dances in clubs here. So to me, exhibition elements fit right
into a historical cultural phenomenon about how Americans view social
dance and enjoy their dance recreation.
I haven't seen jam circles spread to milongas yet, but I'm waiting.
Tango Society of Central Illinois wrote:
> I've noticed a trend over the past few years towards development of a new
> tango market niche - close embrace with exhibition elements - volcadas,
> ganchos, barridas, boleos, and the like. Sometimes a cute term like 'nuevo
> milonguero' is used to link the new to the traditional. This suggests that
> tango milonguero is suffering in sales in the North American (and probably
> European) market, so perhaps if some compromises are made to attract
> norteamericanos to something that is comfortable ('cool steps' to impress
> the audience) within the familar cultural context, fueled by Hoolywood, that
> places value on exhibition dancing, then dancing tango in close embrace with
> exhibition elements will compete successfully for market share with nuevo
> tango. However, doing this abandons the attempt to dance tango the way
> nearly all porten~os do in milongas in Buenos Aires, without these
> exhibition elements. (The exception is exhibition dancers recruiting
> tourists for lucrative private lessons.) What this does is create a new
> version of tango, which can can proudly stand beside Arthur Murray and Fred
> Astaire's versions of tango as North American aberrations of tango. However,
> this is not tango milonguero. Go to Buenos Aires milongas to see the real
> thing. If you come back doing nuevo milonguero, at least you made an
> informed decision.
>
--
Carol Ruth Shepherd
Arborlaw PLC
Ann Arbor MI USA
734 668 4646 v 734 786 1241 f
https://arborlaw.com
intellectual assets * internet * infringement * incorporation
"legal solutions for 21st century businesses"
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:28:46 -0500
From: "Lois Donnay" <donnay@donnay.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
This brings to mind a cautionary tale for any tango dancer, one I often tell
my students.
I often see Judy y Jon when I am in Buenos Aires, because it is hard to miss
them. Jon walks in with his characteristic Tango Hat, and makes a point of
greeting the big shots so everyone see. I hear that Judy is the good dancer
of the couple, but Jon is the flamboyant one.
Several years ago I danced with Jon in a milonga in Buenos Aires. It was
surprisingly awful, because I couldn't connect. Now, usually I can give even
the rankest beginner a great dance because I can provide a good connection.
But Jon was holding me in such an unusual way that it seemed he was actually
holding me away from him. He just was not letting me in. But this isn't the
interesting part.
After the dance, Jon said to me "You're doing a good job. Don't get
discouraged, tango is a difficult dance" or something to that effect. In
other words, he put all of the blame on me. I am assuming he thought I was a
beginner, so walked me around the floor in a way that limited either of us
to enjoy ourselves.
So here is the cautionary tale. Never assume that you are a better dancer
than your partner, or you will ruin it for both of you. Approach each dance
as an honor that someone has entrusted their time and their body to your
care.
Lois Donnay
www.mndance.com
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2007 12:31 PM
Subject: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
> CLOSE EMBRACE SALON TANGO FOR EXHIBITION
> Wednesday 7-9 PM Sept. 12, 19, 26
> A COMPREHENSIVE APPROACH TO EXPAND YOUR SOCIAL DANCE TO EXHIBITION
> LEVEL...>
>
> I give them credit for knowing what sells in the USA tango market. That's
> all that is being taught (sold) these days as tango in BsAs. Is social
> dancing for exhibition?
>
> <They are true milongueros and strive to bring the milonguero culture of
> Buenos Aires to their students.>
>
> True milongueros? Writing this about themselves only proves they don't
> understand the meaning of the word. Besides, no milonguero would teach
> for
> the purpose of exhibition.
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:30:51 -0500
From: ceverett@ceverett.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: "Tango Society of Central Illinois" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Cc: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>, Janis Kenyon <jantango@feedback.net.ar>
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:05:13 -0500, "Tango Society of Central Illinois"
<tango.society@gmail.com> said:
> I've noticed a trend over the past few years towards development
> of a new tango market niche - close embrace with exhibition
> elements - volcadas, ganchos, barridas, boleos, and the like.
> Sometimes a cute term like 'nuevo milonguero' is used to link
> the new to the traditional.
With the exception of volcadas, these are all old, old things
that date from the '40's or before. And volcadas follow very
logically from an old figure called "la carpa".
> This suggests that tango milonguero is suffering in sales in the
> North American (and probably European) market, so perhaps if some
> compromises are made to attract norteamericanos to something that
> is comfortable ('cool steps' to impress the audience) within the
> familar cultural context, fueled by Hoolywood, that places value
> on exhibition dancing, then dancing tango in close embrace with
> exhibition elements will compete successfully for market share
> with nuevo tango.
Except that this material is fun and feels good to do in its
own right, done properly and appropriately.
> However, doing this abandons the attempt to dance tango the way
> nearly all porten~os do in milongas in Buenos Aires, without
> these exhibition elements.
There are many reasons you don't see these elements in common
use by the old farts in BA:
* no room for things that take up a lot of space
* lack of physical talent
* advancing physical decrepitude
> (The exception is exhibition dancers recruiting tourists
> for lucrative private lessons.)
$20/hour group lessons with 50 people attending are 5 to
10 times as efficient as private lessons for extracting
dough from gringos.
> What this does is create
> a new version of tango, which can can proudly stand beside
> Arthur Murray and Fred Astaire's versions of tango as
> North American aberrations of tango.
Tell that to Finito, Pepito, Pupi, Gerardo Portalea, Petroleo
and all the other greats that don't fit into your neat little
"tango milonguero" box.
Using the "exhibition tango" label to brand the unique, home
grown styles of Villa Urquiza and San Cristobal as inauthentic
simply reeks of arrogance.
> However, this is not tango milonguero. Go to Buenos Aires milongas to
> see the real thing. If you come back doing nuevo milonguero, at least
> you made an informed decision.
Who is a milonguero?
A few weekends ago, my teacher Florencia Taccetti was
telling me about the days when she was going out every
night dancing in BA, about her favorite partners, who
was going to the same places and where they were going.
The current generation of name brands all went out
dancing *socially* every night for years, on top of
full days of lessons, performances, practice and/or
teaching. There was no incentive to dance in a way
that would attract impressionable foreigners for
lessons, because there weren't enough of them for
anyone to make a living from.
El Beso wasn't owned by Susanna Miller, it was called
Regine's. Susanna Miller wasn't even on the map as a
teacher.
So, if they were living and breathing tango, making it a
part of their who they were, are they or are they not
milonguero?
And, does what is being danced in the milongas now deserve
to be called "tango milonguero"? Several people we both
know and respect have told me how shocked and saddened they
were at the number of times they got bumped in BA during
recent trips, all by old timers that they had never seen
caught up in choques before.
More and more, I believe this labeling and categorization
we get caught up in is just existential bullshit. I'll
be the first to admit that I've engaged in this bullshit,
but I'm getting sick of it.
Here is the truth of life: Things come and things go. Words
change. Circumstances change. Your dance is one thing one
day, and something else the next. Resistance to change is
mad and futile. It's always been that way and always will.
If we can keep the spirit of this thing we all love alive,
if we go on dancing with grace, passion and connection, then
at the end of the day we have something to celebrate.
Christopher
> On 8/23/07, ceverett@ceverett.com <ceverett@ceverett.com> wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:31:35 -0300, "Janis Kenyon"
> > <Jantango@feedback.net.ar> said:
> > > CLOSE EMBRACE SALON TANGO FOR EXHIBITION
> > > Wednesday 7-9 PM Sept. 12, 19, 26
> > > A COMPREHENSIVE APPROACH TO EXPAND YOUR SOCIAL DANCE TO EXHIBITION
> > > LEVEL...>
> >
> > Oh, it's the Jon and Judy show.
> >
> > > I give them credit for knowing what sells in the USA tango market.
> > > That's
> > > all that is being taught (sold) these days as tango in BsAs. Is social
> > > dancing for exhibition?
> >
> > Um,
> >
> > Osvaldo and Coca do exhibitions regularly. They also enter contests, as
> > you say some of the guys on your approved milonguero list.
> >
> > So the answer to your question is yes.
> >
> > > <They are true milongueros and strive to bring the milonguero culture of
> > > Buenos Aires to their students.>
> > >
> > > True milongueros? Writing this about themselves only proves they don't
> > > understand the meaning of the word. Besides, no milonguero would teach
> > > for the purpose of exhibition.
> >
> > People have to pay their bills somehow. Obviously what they've been
> > doing in the past does not suffice, so they are trying something new.
> >
> > Christopher
> >
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:50:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
Hi all,
I hosted Jon & Judy a couple of years ago and found them to
be a nice couple. My impression was that they were just
not very informed about the level of teaching going on in
the U.S. Seeing that they moved to BsAs quite a few years
ago, I can see why that might be.
They did a nice job with conveying feeling and intensity
between the couple ? sentimentio, I think is the word they
use. It?s that aspect that could be perceived as more
"milonguero". They both studied tango in the States when
the teaching as pattern-based, so their approach is more
"milonguero" in comparison to how they learned it.
As far as the "exhibition" side, I think Jon & Judy are
aware of the need to do demos to attract people to tango.
So they add a few things to spice it up. From what I?ve
seen milongueros seem to do the same thing. Tete?s spun
Silvia around in a performance in Ann Arbor (to the delight
of their audience).
I give Jon & Judy credit for specifying that these elements
are for exhibition, unlike earlier teachers who taught big
open figures and didn?t bother telling people that they
couldn?t be used in a crowded milonga.
Overall, my impression was that they were actually dancing
salon.
I didn?t have any issues dancing with Jon after making two
small adjustments: 1) going to the cross automatically
when we were outside partner and 2) loosening the embrace
slightly at times to make some figures work more easily.
The automatic crossing was what I found a little curious.
When I started tango many moons ago, automatically crossing
was the norm. In the States it is not for the most part.
However, Jon indicated that in BsAs, it was still the norm.
Any comments about this?
Trini de Pittsburgh
PATangoS - Pittsburgh Argentine Tango Society
Our Mission: To make Argentine Tango Pittsburgh?s most popular social dance!
https://patangos.home.comcast.net/
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles. Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:22:55 -0500
From: ceverett@ceverett.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: shepherd@arborlaw.com, "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 16:20:36 -0400, "Carol Shepherd"
<arborlaw@comcast.net> said:
> Ron:
>
> I second your observation on this trend. All dance, when it comes to
> America, seems to not only gets transmogrified into something different,
> it also gets turned into a competitive sport;
Read up on your tango history. Competition between dancers
has been the *number one* factor in the evolution of tango.
Otherwise, we wouldn't be having this discussion, tango
would have become historical reenactment at best before
the turn of the last century.
Formal tango competitions occured as far back as 1926.
Informal competitions went on continuously. Men guarded
their steps jealously from competitors, and sought to steal
steps from other dancers at the same time.
The cultural underpinnings in Argentine society during
proto-tango times are the same cultural underpinnings
that made Afro-American dance from cakewalk to Lindy Hop
to breakdance what it is and was and probably always will
be.
Famous dancers built teaching careers as early as 1910.
Dancers like El Cachafaz and Petroleo were so admired as
innovators that in the space of a few years, all of Buenos
Aires changed how they danced because of them.
Something as simple as the cruzada, didn't get the exploration
it deserved until the late 30's. That exploration so changed
the face of tango that it made close embrace possible: a woman
can't comfortably do a molinete in close embrace without it
unless she has double jointed hips.
Why did the guy even bother to take the risk of exploring the
possibilities in the women's front cross, when he could have
been getting ahead incrementally by exploring the same space
in the dance as the other guys? Could it have been because
he was looking for something to put his own stamp on the dance
with?
Why did all the other guys who observed the phenomenon before
him then pass up the opportunity to explore cruzada-space?
Could it have been because it was so simple on its face they
didn't think there was anything important to learn there?
Today's best leaders are constantly playing off each other
*on the dance floor*, being inspired by other's best stuff
and showing off their own best stuff. This includes people
who are considered strict milonguero style dancers.
Every time we want to put a circle around the some part of
the dance and and point at it and say "everything in there,
that's the real tango", something or someone comes along and
tells you how little you know.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Be grateful for competition. We would still be dancing polka
and schottiche without it.
Christopher
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 18:31:26 -0500
From: ceverett@ceverett.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
On Thu, 23 Aug 2007 15:28:46 -0500, "Lois Donnay" <donnay@donnay.net>
espoused what I shall call the Donnay Rule:
>
> Approach each dance as an honor that someone has entrusted their time
> and their body to your care.
Everett's corollaries to the Donnay Rule are:
1. This goes for followers too. Obviously.
2. Never assume that your partner follows the Donnay Rule without proof,
preferably visual.
This is wisdom taken from an aching back.
Christopher
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 19:59:00 -0500
From: Barbara Garvey <barbara@tangobar-productions.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: ceverett@ceverett.com
Cc: Janis Kenyon <jantango@feedback.net.ar>, Tango Society of Central
Illinois <"tanmany go.society"@gmail.com>, Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
ceverett@ceverett.com wrote:
>>>>>Who is a milonguero?
>>>A few weekends ago, my teacher Florencia Taccetti was
telling me about the days when she was going out every
night dancing in BA, about her favorite partners, who
was going to the same places and where they were going.
The current generation of name brands all went out
dancing *socially* every night for years, on top of
full days of lessons, performances, practice and/or
teaching. There was no incentive to dance in a way
that would attract impressionable foreigners for
lessons, because there weren't enough of them for
anyone to make a living from.
El Beso wasn't owned by Susanna Miller, it was called
Regine's. Susanna Miller wasn't even on the map as a
teacher.
So, if they were living and breathing tango, making it a
part of their who they were, are they or are they not
milonguero?<<<<<
Al and I had the same experience as Florencia in the late
'80s and early '90s, when many of today's top professional dancers did go
to the milongas every night, I mean every night, Geraldine and her
generation
(the Misses, ets) with their parents, the Zottos, Milena Plebs, Carlos
Copello, Guillermina
Quiroga, Diego DiFalco & Natalia Hills, etc. They did not do exhibition
moves
in the milonga (except when doing an exhibition, of course!), they just
danced
beautifully with many partners no matter how crowded the floor. So even
those who were already performing on stage were considered milongueros.
Obviously many more show dancers are professionals
only, never danced socially. These were not considered by anyone to be
authentic tango dancers; the distinction was clear. Lots of them are
teaching
now and some are terrific teachers as they understand technical aspects of
dance. Others impart nothing but choreography. Let the buyer beware.
I believe that there are two definitions of milonguero, one made up and
promoted by those who live the "milonguero lifestyle", using the clubs like
singles bars and capitalizing on what Susana Miller (who I never saw at
a milonga
that she didn't organize) began selling in 1994 as the only authentic tango
with huge success as evidenced on this List. Some are now having the
time of
their lives impressing tango tourists. Some are even pretty good dancers :-)
Meanwhile in the neighborhoods like Villa Urquiza, Mataderos etc.
ceverett@ceverett.com wrote:
>>>>>>Finito, Pepito, Pupi, Gerardo Portalea, Petroleo and all the
other greats
that don't fit >> into your neat little"tango milonguero" box.<<<<
were in their time regarded as the best dancers by everyone, including
those
who now identify themselves as the "true milongueros". Every Argentine
dictionary
and book about tango I've read (many dozens, in Spanish) defines a
milonguero as
someone who goes to the dancehalls regularly and whose life is defined
by tango.
Until the mid-'90s no one ever insisted that it was required to be an
underemployed
womanizer, dance in only one style and have a sleazy reputation to be
considered
a milonguero. (The term "milonguera" has a much dicier conotation going
back to
the late 19th century.)
ceverett@ceverett.com wrote:
>>>>>There are many reasons you don't see these elements in
common use by the old farts in BA:
* no room for things that take up a lot of space
* lack of physical talent
* advancing physical decrepitude<<<<<<
And of course all of those who were considered good dancers by
the newly labeled "old milongueros", those precious few are now
gone. Many of the youngsters who learned from them are able to
make a living (of sorts)from tango as their mentors almost
never did.
So maybe the bottom line is that the current crop of "milongueros"
is so called by default, with the generation of creativity and
elegance diminished by time and death, by distance from the
"Golden Age". Meanwhile there are still a few of us who knew
them and experienced the excitement of the early years of the
tango revival. We try to keep history accurate and their memory
>from being erased or trashed. Just because most of the folks on
this list came to tango a little later doesn't mean that a rich
individualistic strictly social tango didn't exist before 1994
when it was redefined by Susana Miller.
Barbara
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:25:45 -0400
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>, Tango-L
<tango-l@mit.edu>
> The automatic crossing was what I found a little curious.
> When I started tango many moons ago, automatically crossing
> was the norm. In the States it is not for the most part.
> However, Jon indicated that in BsAs, it was still the norm.
> Any comments about this?
Trini,
Many very respected teachers have taught me the same thing.
The tango has a code which is that the woman dances around the man with the
grapevine pattern (open, cross front. open, cross back, etc.). when the man steps
outside of the line, he becomes the center of the circle. In the typical sacada of the
8CB, the woman begins her giro with a side step to the right. Since the man
is going forward along the LOD, the nest step is obviously a back step. The next step
is an open or side step but since the man is guiding the woman along the LOD, it
looks and acts like another back step. It is not, it's an open step... If one obeys the code,
the next step of the woman is a front cross...... It's inevitable, the cross at the 5th step
of the woman is the logical sequence of the molinete or giro.
For some reason, the Americans have mystified the front cross and many teachers
teach all kinds of crazy contortions to cause the front cross and they also teach that
the front cross must be led in some mysterious way or the woman will just continue walking
backwards without crossing. This is wrong, it would be like having to lead every crossed and open
steps of the giro and that's obviously not the case.
Regards,
Manuel
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2007 22:42:27 -0400
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: "Trini y Sean (PATangoS)" <patangos@yahoo.com>, Tango-L
<tango-l@mit.edu>
Sorry folks, I should have said that one need not lead a front cross as opposed to a
back cross after an open or side step. Obviously the man is leading the woman to take each
and every step, but it's her responsability to follow the code of the tango. Once the firts step
of a giro has been led, (direction and motion) the other steps come in a prescribed sequence.
Manuel
visit our webpage
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 01:54:58 +0100
From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
"WHITE 95 R" <white95r@hotmail.com> said:
> ... it would be like having to lead every crossed and open
> steps of the giro and that's obviously not the case.
and then:
> Obviously the man is leading the woman to take each and every step,
What is it that causes seemingly every explanation of the "code of the tango" to contradict itself within just a few sentences?
> but it's her responsability to follow the code of the tango.
If not within the same sentence?
> Once the firts step of a giro has been led, (direction and motion) the
> other steps come in a prescribed sequence.
Perhaps it is because the code's proponents seem not to have grasped that this dance is improvised. There are no prescribed sequences.
Chris
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 01:54:18 -0400
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
Chris UK,
The man leads the Giro and the woman dances it. What is so difficult to understand about that?
And the Giro does have a prescribed sequence of steps for as long as the man leads it. Every leader and every follower
eventually learns it - hopefully within the first 3-month of Tango tuition. They also learn how to change the Giro into to
something else, on any given step - that might take a little longer. But each step is still led because the Giro is being led.
There is no contradiction in what Manuel is saying.
Everything else, such as leading every individual step of the Giro is BS. Unless, your still plodding around, doing single
Giros to a very slow beat. Fine when you're learning or dancing with a beginner, but boring after a while.
Multiple Giros with double-times are great fun - but only when both partners know the code and have the ability to lead,
follow and dance it. A thought just struck me - Chris - do you actually know how to lead a Giro without having to lead
every individual step? The woman won't dance it on her own, without the correct lead - there's nothing automatic about it.
Keith, HK
On Sun Aug 26 8:54 , "Chris, UK" sent:
>"WHITE 95 R" white95r@hotmail.com> said:
>
>> ... it would be like having to lead every crossed and open
>> steps of the giro and that's obviously not the case.
>
>and then:
>
>> Obviously the man is leading the woman to take each and every step,
>
>What is it that causes seemingly every explanation of the "code of the tango" to contradict itself within just a few sentences?
>
>> but it's her responsability to follow the code of the tango.
>
>If not within the same sentence?
>
>> Once the firts step of a giro has been led, (direction and motion) the
>> other steps come in a prescribed sequence.
>
>Perhaps it is because the code's proponents seem not to have grasped that this dance is improvised. There are no prescribed sequences.
>
>Chris
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 13:07:53 +0200
From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
Cc: chrisjj <chrisjj@chrisjj.com>
<4db2592c0708260407w65a2d53dp7d716b2a1a247a71@mail.gmail.com>
> The man leads the Giro and the woman dances it. What
> is so difficult to understand about that?
The word "lead", for starters. I think it is agreed what it means in
improvised tango, but in your world of prescribed sequences, not even
the Prescribers themselves agree e.g.:
Manuel: "Obviously the man is leading the woman to take each and every step"
Keith: "leading every individual step of the Giro is BS"
> Chris - do you actually know how to lead a Giro without having to lead
> every individual step?
Nope. I leave that to the weak leaders who rely on the girl doing
the prescribed sequence.
Chris
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 12:00:34 -0400
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
OK, I give up - Chris, if you don't want to listen or hear, or understand - then you won't.
I've wasted enough time on you and I suspect Manuel feels the same way.
Just one last word - I've never mentioned prescribed sequences - only one - the Giro. And it's one that
everyone in Tango understands - except you and possibly a handful of others.
And one more word - I would really love to see you leading a complicated Giro - for example, with a few
double-times and a few Sacadas, maybe including a Barrida or a Planeo. And all the time you're leading
front cross, opening. back cross, opening, front cross, etc etc. But I suspect I've gone way beyond your level.
And one more word - yes, the man leads each and every step of the Giro. But the lead for the Giro is the
same regardless of which step is being made, because the woman knows the next step of a Giro. That's what
I mean, but I suspect you already knew that.
OK, that's my last word.
Keith, HK
On Sun Aug 26 19:07 , "Chris, UK" sent:
>> The man leads the Giro and the woman dances it. What
>> is so difficult to understand about that?
>
>The word "lead", for starters. I think it is agreed what it means in
>improvised tango, but in your world of prescribed sequences, not even
>the Prescribers themselves agree e.g.:
>
>Manuel: "Obviously the man is leading the woman to take each and every step"
>Keith: "leading every individual step of the Giro is BS"
>
>> Chris - do you actually know how to lead a Giro without having to lead
>> every individual step?
>
>Nope. I leave that to the weak leaders who rely on the girl doing
>the prescribed sequence.
>
>Chris
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 14:40:10 +0300
From: "Krasimir Stoyanov" <krasimir@krasimir.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2007 5:25 AM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
> For some reason, the Americans have mystified the front cross and many
> teachers
> teach all kinds of crazy contortions to cause the front cross and they
> also teach that
> the front cross must be led in some mysterious way or the woman will just
> continue walking
> backwards without crossing. This is wrong, it would be like having to lead
> every crossed and open
> steps of the giro and that's obviously not the case.
Obviously? Not so, it is possible and even advisable to lead every step in a
giro - the results are very promising.
Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 15:41:01 +0300
From: "Krasimir Stoyanov" <krasimir@krasimir.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
> Everything else, such as leading every individual step of the Giro is BS.
> Unless, your still plodding around, doing single
> Giros to a very slow beat. Fine when you're learning or dancing with a
> beginner, but boring after a while.
Why labeling something as BS so easily? If a normal "social" couple cannot
do it, doesn't mean it is BS
Ok, what if we have a good leader and a good follower?
I can tell you - in this case EVERY INDIVIDUAL step, pivot, cross -
whatever - can be lead, no matter if the beat is slow or fast. Actually, the
faster the beat, the more I need her to follow my lead instead of "helping"
me with steps of her own When this happens, (the lady does the steps on her
own), she slows me down eventually because of the lack of connection
involved with it - I must disconnect - otherwise her steps will lead me -
unfortunately this is not an appropriate thing to happen under normal
circumstances.
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:52:02 -0300
From: "Janis Kenyon" <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: "Tango-L" <Tango-L@MIT.EDU>
Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 16:26:25 -0400
From: Ilene Marder <imhmedia@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: Janis Kenyon <Jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Cc: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
Janis wrote:
* Don't you think this is turning tango into a performance-only dance?
*
Ilene replies..:
Knowing what social/salon tango means to those who dance it, I just don't think that is even in the realm of possibility.
I think tango will always be a social dance because of what it gives each of us each personally.
Plus, for me- I would rather see salon tango being performed and exhibited more than stage/fantastia tango, in large part because stage tango is the only 'kind' of tango most people (outside of tango) have seen. Perhaps that's why some teachers think that's what they have to teach. If the public saw more salon tango exhibitions, I think they would want to learn more about embrace, connection, musiciality than flying ganchos and endless ochos...
all best,
Ilene
Janis Kenyon wrote:
>Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:40:46 -0400
>From: Ilene Marder <imhmedia@yahoo.com>
>
><I've just seen the beautiful dancing for the salon category of the
>Campeonato del Mundial and can't help but think about the list
>discussion some days back about exhibition salon dancing.... -- a
>couple of people complained about Judy y Jon's class which offered
>coaching for exhibition salon dancing.>
>
> * Don't you think this is turning tango into a performance-only dance?*
>
><Helloooo... altho some of the participants on stage danced just as they
>do at the milongas...the couple who won - and I must say I thought they
>were fantastic - clearly fit into the 'exhibition' salon dance
>category- showing how beautifully it can be done under the optimal
>conditions (not a crowded floor, space to move, no one crashing into
>you, great music, lots of time beforehand to practice together).>
>
> Anyone can do more when they have the space. The challenge would be to
>see the winners dance on a crowed floor. That would prove whether or not
>they are worthy of the tango salon title. The judges' selection of winners
>each year proves that you have to keep up with the latest fashion. It is
>clear that one has to impress the judges without stepping over the line into
>the stage category. In a few years, I doubt there will be any difference
>between the salon and stage categories. It also helps to have any many
>private lessons as possible with the judges. Five years the title has been
>given to Argentines. I doubt it will ever change.
>
><So I say 'here here' to Judy y Jon...I'd rather more classes like theirs
>than for exhibition stage dancing (we've already had enough of that...).
>a word of disclosure here... I have gone to milongas with Judy y Jon in
>BsAS and have seen not only their exhibitions but also how the older
>milonguero community reacts to them (especially in the barrios outside
>of centro..)....>
>
> What is the difference between exhibition and stage? Both are in
>front of an audience. Social dancers do exhibitions all the time.
>Professionals don't dance in the milongas. However, to perform as a
>professional on stage (Esquina Carlos Gardel, Forever Tango, etc.) one
>usually has a background of dance training and has to prepare
>choreographies. Auditions for Esquina Carlos Gardel are being held this
>week.
> Do social dancers change their dancing for exhibitions in the
>milongas? Of course they do. Why? I believe they prepare a simple
>choreography in order to receive applause. Foreigners in the audience are
>impressed and sign up for classes or offer invitations to visit their
>country. This is the real purpose of exhibitions. Local dancers aren't
>interested.
>
><The milonga organizers book them regularly for exhibitions because their
>tango is highly thought of. They dance often with many of the most
>experienced and respected dancers. My community, especially the leaders,
>love them and are always asking to have them back here for workshops because
>they actually help people to dance with connection, musicality and respect
>for the tradition. And I think that's a good thing.>
>
> I can't even begin to comment on these topics. Generally, there is
>hardly much respect for the traditions of tango in Buenos Aires these days.
>Tango is all about business.
>
> I'd like to see all those young couples of the Campeonato Mundial
>together on the floor of Centro Region Leonesa at one time and see if they
>could navigate the floor without killing each another. Anyone can learn
>steps, but few can navigate well on a crowded floor like the milongueros.
>
>
>
>
>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:54:06 -0400
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
For a little R'n'R I entered a Tango competition earlier this year [in BsAs]. It's as Janis says, there was so much space available, it was much
easier than dancing in the milongas. Other than moving CCW around the floor and dancing to the music, no improvisation was necessary as there
were no obstructions. We could pretty much dance whatever we wanted whenever we wanted. Given time and practice, we could have choreographed an
entire 3-minute dance routine for use in the competition and I'm sure that's what many competitors are now doing. So it really is just an
exhibition or a performance - something the couples have probably practiced hundreds of times before. It may even become the same as in
Ballroom, where the top competitors have their competition routines choreographed for them - by experts who are in high demand.
I wish the arrangers could think of a solution to the problem, as improvisation should definitely be a major factor in judging a Tango
competition. Perhaps, just before each dance, obstacles could be placed randomly about the floor. The judges could then see how skilfully and
inventively the competitors navigate around them. As the competition progresses, the number of obstacles could be increased.
As Ilene says, I also love to see exhibitions by the very best salon-style dancers. But the Salon Competition should be something completely
different - it should, as far as possible, try to simulate the milonga experience.
Keith, HK
On Thu Aug 30 4:26 , Ilene Marder sent:
>Janis wrote:
> * Don't you think this is turning tango into a performance-only dance?
>Ilene replies..:
>Knowing what social/salon tango means to those who dance it, I just don't think that is even in the realm of possibility.
>I think tango will always be a social dance because of what it gives each of us each personally.
>Plus, for me- I would rather see salon tango being performed and exhibited more than stage/fantastia tango, in large part because stage tango
is the only 'kind' of tango most people (outside of tango) have seen. Perhaps that's why some teachers think that's what they have to teach. If
the public saw more salon tango exhibitions, I think they would want to learn more about embrace, connection, musiciality than flying ganchos
and endless ochos...
>all best,
>Ilene
>
>
>
>Janis Kenyon wrote:
>
>>Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 12:40:46 -0400
>>From: Ilene Marder imhmedia@yahoo.com>
>>
>>
>>Campeonato del Mundial and can't help but think about the list
>>discussion some days back about exhibition salon dancing.... -- a
>>couple of people complained about Judy y Jon's class which offered
>>coaching for exhibition salon dancing.>
>>
>> * Don't you think this is turning tango into a performance-only dance?*
>>
>>
>>do at the milongas...the couple who won - and I must say I thought they
>>were fantastic - clearly fit into the 'exhibition' salon dance
>>category- showing how beautifully it can be done under the optimal
>>conditions (not a crowded floor, space to move, no one crashing into
>>you, great music, lots of time beforehand to practice together).>
>>
>> Anyone can do more when they have the space. The challenge would be to
>>see the winners dance on a crowed floor. That would prove whether or not
>>they are worthy of the tango salon title. The judges' selection of winners
>>each year proves that you have to keep up with the latest fashion. It is
>>clear that one has to impress the judges without stepping over the line into
>>the stage category. In a few years, I doubt there will be any difference
>>between the salon and stage categories. It also helps to have any many
>>private lessons as possible with the judges. Five years the title has been
>>given to Argentines. I doubt it will ever change.
>>
>>
>>than for exhibition stage dancing (we've already had enough of that...).
>>a word of disclosure here... I have gone to milongas with Judy y Jon in
>>BsAS and have seen not only their exhibitions but also how the older
>>milonguero community reacts to them (especially in the barrios outside
>>of centro..)....>
>>
>> What is the difference between exhibition and stage? Both are in
>>front of an audience. Social dancers do exhibitions all the time.
>>Professionals don't dance in the milongas. However, to perform as a
>>professional on stage (Esquina Carlos Gardel, Forever Tango, etc.) one
>>usually has a background of dance training and has to prepare
>>choreographies. Auditions for Esquina Carlos Gardel are being held this
>>week.
>> Do social dancers change their dancing for exhibitions in the
>>milongas? Of course they do. Why? I believe they prepare a simple
>>choreography in order to receive applause. Foreigners in the audience are
>>impressed and sign up for classes or offer invitations to visit their
>>country. This is the real purpose of exhibitions. Local dancers aren't
>>interested.
>>
>>
>>tango is highly thought of. They dance often with many of the most
>>experienced and respected dancers. My community, especially the leaders,
>>love them and are always asking to have them back here for workshops because
>>they actually help people to dance with connection, musicality and respect
>>for the tradition. And I think that's a good thing.>
>>
>> I can't even begin to comment on these topics. Generally, there is
>>hardly much respect for the traditions of tango in Buenos Aires these days.
>>Tango is all about business.
>>
>> I'd like to see all those young couples of the Campeonato Mundial
>>together on the floor of Centro Region Leonesa at one time and see if they
>>could navigate the floor without killing each another. Anyone can learn
>>steps, but few can navigate well on a crowded floor like the milongueros.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:11:06 -0500
From: ceverett@ceverett.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: keith@tangohk.com, "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:54:06 -0400, "Keith" <keith@tangohk.com> said:
> For a little R'n'R I entered a Tango competition earlier this year [in
> BsAs]. It's as Janis says, there was so much space available, it was much
> easier than dancing in the milongas. Other than moving CCW around the
> floor and dancing to the music, no improvisation was necessary as there
> were no obstructions. We could pretty much dance whatever we wanted
> whenever we wanted. Given time and practice, we could have choreographed
> an entire 3-minute dance routine for use in the competition and I'm sure
> that's what many competitors are now doing.
Well, just to be contrarian, did you know what the music was going to be
in advance? If not, do you think a decent choreography without knowing
the music is even possible? I don;t know these things, I've never done
a choreography in my life, but I'm not sure you can even have a preset
range of steps in mind to perform to any random music successfully ...
it's not improvisation and it's not a set choreography; it's bound to
come out looking bad.
Ballroom people don't just have choreographies, I'm pretty sure they
know
what the music will be in advance.
But if you did know what the music was going to be, then maybe you're
right.
Christopher
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 04:29:00 -0400
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
David,
No, of course that's not what I'm saying. Do you seriously think it is? Maybe you
just don't understand what the message is about - if not, please read the message
again - or just the subject line.
When we dance socially - EVERYTHING is improvised because that's what Social Dancing
is and that's how we like it. We never know what's coming next - we just dance for the
pure pleasure and, trust me, there's very little pleasure in repeating a choreographed
routine. I've done my share of Performance Dancing to know that.
But this message is not about Social Dancing - it's about exhibition and competition
dancing and, more specifically, how to win. My concern is that, in order to win, couples
will choreograph a routine and, thereby, have a better chance of dancing perfectly and
without any errors, i.e there'll be no improvisation, which, as I've already said, should
be a major element in Social Dancing. Since competitors won't improvise voluntarily,
perhaps we can force them to improvise by putting random obstacles in their way.
Understand now?
Keith, HK
On Thu Aug 30 15:42 , "Burnett, David" sent:
>I am curious about "no improvisation was necessary as there were no
>obstructions".
>Are you seriously saying that improvisation only consists of alteration
>of movement due to lack of space.
>Seems a strangely insufficient idea of improvisation to me.
>
>David AU
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: tango-l-bounces@mit.edu [tango-l-bounces@mit.edu','','','')">tango-l-bounces@mit.edu] On Behalf
>Of Keith
>Sent: Thursday, 30 August 2007 2:54 PM
>To: Tango-L
>Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
>
>For a little R'n'R I entered a Tango competition earlier this year [in
>BsAs]. It's as Janis says, there was so much space available, it was
>much easier than dancing in the milongas. Other than moving CCW around
>the floor and dancing to the music, no improvisation was necessary as
>there were no obstructions. We could pretty much dance whatever we
>wanted whenever we wanted. Given time and practice, we could have
>choreographed an entire 3-minute dance routine for use in the
>competition and I'm sure that's what many competitors are now doing. So
>it really is just an exhibition or a performance - something the couples
>have probably practiced hundreds of times before. It may even become the
>same as in Ballroom, where the top competitors have their competition
>routines choreographed for them - by experts who are in high demand.
>
>I wish the arrangers could think of a solution to the problem, as
>improvisation should definitely be a major factor in judging a Tango
>competition. Perhaps, just before each dance, obstacles could be placed
>randomly about the floor. The judges could then see how skilfully and
>inventively the competitors navigate around them. As the competition
>progresses, the number of obstacles could be increased.
>
>As Ilene says, I also love to see exhibitions by the very best
>salon-style dancers. But the Salon Competition should be something
>completely different - it should, as far as possible, try to simulate
>the milonga experience.
>
>Keith, HK
>
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 04:50:44 -0400
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
Christopher,
No, I don't think competitors in the Social Dance Competition would know the
music in advance - that would be even worse and definitely encourage
choreography. So, OK, it wouldn't be 100% choreographed the way a show is,
but any half-decent dancer can dance a choreography slightly differently to suit
whatever music is being played. Especially since, whatever music is, it's likely to
be something they're already familiar with. I'm sure the competitors are very good
social dancers but, to maximize their chance of avoiding mistakes, they're likely
to choreograph as much as possible, rather than improvise as I'm sure they do in
the milongas.
Keith, HK
On Thu Aug 30 13:11 , ceverett@ceverett.com sent:
>
>On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 00:54:06 -0400, "Keith" keith@tangohk.com> said:
>> For a little R'n'R I entered a Tango competition earlier this year [in
>> BsAs]. It's as Janis says, there was so much space available, it was much
>> easier than dancing in the milongas. Other than moving CCW around the
>> floor and dancing to the music, no improvisation was necessary as there
>> were no obstructions. We could pretty much dance whatever we wanted
>> whenever we wanted. Given time and practice, we could have choreographed
>> an entire 3-minute dance routine for use in the competition and I'm sure
>> that's what many competitors are now doing.
>
>Well, just to be contrarian, did you know what the music was going to be
>in advance? If not, do you think a decent choreography without knowing
>the music is even possible? I don;t know these things, I've never done
>a choreography in my life, but I'm not sure you can even have a preset
>range of steps in mind to perform to any random music successfully ...
>it's not improvisation and it's not a set choreography; it's bound to
>come out looking bad.
>
>Ballroom people don't just have choreographies, I'm pretty sure they
>know
>what the music will be in advance.
>
>But if you did know what the music was going to be, then maybe you're
>right.
>
>Christopher
Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2007 10:33:38 -0500
From: "Lois Donnay" <donnay@donnay.net>
Subject: [Tango-L] Fw: Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
To: "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
reply-type=response
How about a Jack and Jill? They do that in West Coast Swing and some
Ballroom competitions. You select the partner you dance with by picking a
name out of a hat right before you dance.
Ballroom dancers don't know the music they will compete to in advance. I
have competed in ballroom using no choreography, and did well. The judges
were impressed that it was all "lead/follow".
How about we line up 50 leads and 50 follows. Everybody dances with
everybody, then puts the name of their favorites in a hat.
Or we could just record the conversations in the bathrooms at the milongas.
Louisa Donnay
Minneapolis
>> For a little R'n'R I entered a Tango competition earlier this year [in
>> BsAs]. It's as Janis says, there was so much space available, it was much
>> easier than dancing in the milongas. Other than moving CCW around the
>> floor and dancing to the music, no improvisation was necessary as there
>> were no obstructions. We could pretty much dance whatever we wanted
>> whenever we wanted. Given time and practice, we could have choreographed
>> an
>> entire 3-minute dance routine for use in the competition and I'm sure
>> that's what many competitors are now doing. So it really is just an
>> exhibition or a performance - something the couples have probably
>> practiced hundreds of times before. It may even become the same as in
>> Ballroom, where the top competitors have their competition routines
>> choreographed for them - by experts who are in high demand.
>>
>> I wish the arrangers could think of a solution to the problem, as
>> improvisation should definitely be a major factor in judging a Tango
>> competition. Perhaps, just before each dance, obstacles could be placed
>> randomly about the floor. The judges could then see how skilfully and
>> inventively the competitors navigate around them. As the competition
>> progresses, the number of obstacles could be increased.
>>
>> As Ilene says, I also love to see exhibitions by the very best
>> salon-style dancers. But the Salon Competition should be something
>> completely
>> different - it should, as far as possible, try to simulate the milonga
>> experience.
>>
>> Keith, HK
>>
>
Date: Fri, 7 Sep 2007 03:41:34 -0300
From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Expanding social dancing to exhibition level?
Cc: chrisjj <chrisjj@chrisjj.com>
<4db2592c0709062341u356c4fefua626f8c7f902d34a@mail.gmail.com>
> I'd like to see all those young couples of the Campeonato Mundial
> together on the floor of Centro Region Leonesa at one time and see if they
> could navigate the floor without killing each another.
/Without/ killing each other?
Aww... ;)
Chris
