1971 Floor navigation
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 02:10:21 -0800
From: claybird@TELEPORT.COM
Subject: Floor navigation
The 7th Annual Portland TangoFest was over a few weeks ago and since then I have received nearly 100 evaluations. I have tallied all of the =
comments and it's interesting to note that the #1 complaint was about poor floor navigation at the milongas! To address this issue at future =
events, and because this a universal problem that extends beyond just the Portland TangoFest, I would like to open a discussion about this =
topic. Specifically I would like to get feed back about who exactly are the guilty culprits. Are they primarily:
(a) Absolute beginners, or
(b) Intermediate dancers with leaders who often stare at their feet, are oblivious to other dancers around them, and seem to know only static =
patterns which never move anywhere, or
(c) Hot shot Advanced tangueros darting in and out showing off their latest gauncho/boleo/sacada/triple loop with total disregard for others =
on the floor.
I'd appreciate hearing your opinion and experience on this, and please specify if your discussion refers to your experience at the Portland =
TangoFest.
Thanks..clay
Clay: claybird@teleport.com
Sue: balibree@yahoo.com
Phone: (206) 729-7268
Address: 1340 N 79th St Apt 101, Seattle, WA 98103
Web: www.claysdancestudio.com
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 06:20:05 -0600
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Floor Navigation
Clay wrote:
>The #1 complaint was about poor floor navigation ...
>I'd appreciate hearing your opinion and experience on this
I was not in attendance at the Portland TangoFest, but I am not surprised.
Navigation is an issue at nearly all tango festivals at many milongas
around the United States.
The use of step patterns is one of the primary causes of poor floor
navigation. If you look at who is teaching and what they are teaching at
most tango festivals, poor navigation at many of these festivals is not a
surprise. The very step patterns taught at these festivals cannot be
safely executed on a moderately crowded to crowded dance floor.
If the dancing is to respect the flow of traffic, tango needs to be
understood as small elements rather than step patterns. Instruction in
that direction greatly improves that understanding.
I have also noticed that on moderately crowded floors, navigation is often
worse than on very crowded floors or relatively empty floors. When floors
get very crowded, most people know better than to dance in step patterns
or to use overly fancy elements. Also, some of the step pattern people
are forced to sit down. When the floor is relatively empty, there is
plenty of room to do these things without impeding the flow of dancing.
The deejaying can also affect navigation. If the dancers are all
connected to the same music, it aids the flow of dancing. Music that is
too weak rhythmically can result in too many dancers going off in their
own direction.
With best regards,
Steve
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 09:45:16 -0500
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Floor navigation
visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com
I would like to open a discussion about this topic. Specifically I would
like to get feed back about who exactly are the guilty culprits. Are they
primarily:
(a) Absolute beginners, or
(b) Intermediate dancers with leaders who often stare at their feet, are
oblivious to other dancers around them, and seem to know only static
patterns which never move anywhere, or
(c) Hot shot Advanced tangueros darting in and out showing off their latest
gauncho/boleo/sacada/triple loop with total disregard for others on the
floor.
I'd appreciate hearing your opinion and experience on this, and please
specify if your discussion refers to your experience at the Portland
TangoFest.
Thanks..clay
Hi Clay,
First of all, I want to congratulate you on a great success. This was my
first time in Portland and I really enjoyed the milongas. I know that floor
navigation is a hot topic and there are lots of accusations flying back and
forth to assign blame. While it's true that all dancers can contribute to
the problem in some way at some time, I think that this is not the huge
problem that so many make it out to be.
Sure, from time to time I get frustrated with somebody who just will not
move along the LOD, and sometimes a hot shot or two will blast by or
accidentally kick or bump into my partner or myself, but genearlly, it's up
to me to navigate the floor, enjoy the dance, take care of my partner and
respect the other dancers. I generally do not have too many problems with
other people's navigation skills as long as I navigate the dance floor well
myself. Rather than complain about the poor navigation skills of others, I
find it much more useful to perfect my own.
Great navigation to all,
Manuel
BTW, the last milonga Sunday night at Alex's was just incredibly fun. it was
also probably the smallest and most crowded yet I think I enjoyed it the
best! (could be because my cold was getting better ;-))
Great deals on high-speed Internet access as low as $26.95.
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 10:41:23 -0500
From: John Gleeson <jgleeson@CONCENTRIC.NET>
Subject: Re: Floor navigation
Yes to all three.
(not a unique problem of the Portland Tangofest).
John G.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, November 08, 2003 5:10 AM
Subject: [TANGO-L] Floor navigation
The 7th Annual Portland TangoFest was over a few weeks ago and since then I have received nearly 100 evaluations. I have tallied
all of the comments and it's interesting to note that the #1 complaint was about poor floor navigation at the milongas! To address
this issue at future events, and because this a universal problem that extends beyond just the Portland TangoFest, I would like to
open a discussion about this topic. Specifically I would like to get feed back about who exactly are the guilty culprits. Are they
primarily:
(a) Absolute beginners, or
(b) Intermediate dancers with leaders who often stare at their feet, are oblivious to other dancers around them, and seem to know
only static patterns which never move anywhere, or
(c) Hot shot Advanced tangueros darting in and out showing off their latest gauncho/boleo/sacada/triple loop with total disregard
for others on the floor.
I'd appreciate hearing your opinion and experience on this, and please specify if your discussion refers to your experience at the
Portland TangoFest.
Thanks..clay
Clay: claybird@teleport.com
Sue: balibree@yahoo.com
Phone: (206) 729-7268
Address: 1340 N 79th St Apt 101, Seattle, WA 98103
Web: www.claysdancestudio.com
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 12:57:16 EST
From: Mallpasso@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Floor navigation
Yes to all three! I haven't been to Portland, yet, but I hope to make it
there someday soon!
Here in the SF bay area navigation is an alien word and rarely practiced.
It's understandable that beginners will make mistakes and have only rudimentary
knowledge of all aspects of tango, but it's no excuse for dancers in
categories #2 and #3. I try to dance around floor in the outer lane but I keep getting
cut of by leaders who cut in and out. I think it's high time teachers
emphasize and teach basic navigation skills and "rules of the road."
El Bandito de Tango
In a message dated 11/8/03 02:05:25 Pacific Standard Time,
claybird@TELEPORT.COM writes:
> The 7th Annual Portland TangoFest was over a few weeks ago and since then I
> have received nearly 100 evaluations. I have tallied all of the comments
> and it's interesting to note that the #1 complaint was about poor floor
> navigation at the milongas! To address this issue at future events, and because
> this a universal problem that extends beyond just the Portland TangoFest, I
> would like to open a discussion about this topic. Specifically I would like to
> get feed back about who exactly are the guilty culprits. Are they primarily:
>
> (a) Absolute beginners, or
>
> (b) Intermediate dancers with leaders who often stare at their feet, are
> oblivious to other dancers around them, and seem to know only static patterns
> which never move anywhere, or
>
> (c) Hot shot Advanced tangueros darting in and out showing off their latest
> gauncho/boleo/sacada/triple loop with total disregard for others on the
> floor.
>
> I'd appreciate hearing your opinion and experience on this, and please
> specify if your discussion refers to your experience at the Portland TangoFest.
>
> Thanks..clay
>
>
> Clay: claybird@teleport.com
> Sue: balibree@yahoo.com
> Phone: (206) 729-7268
> Address: 1340 N 79th St Apt 101, Seattle, WA 98103
> Web: www.claysdancestudio.com
>
Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 19:30:08 +0100
From: Christian Lüthen <christian.luethen@GMX.NET>
Subject: Re: Floor navigation
On 8 Nov 2003 at 12:57, Mallpasso@AOL.COM wrote:
> El Bandito de Tango
is there any name to that pseudonym? :-(
christian
christian@eTanguero.net
https://www.eTanguero.net/
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:55:13 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Floor navigation
Specifically I would like to get feed back about who exactly are the guilty
culprits. Are they primarily:
(a) Absolute beginners, or
(b) Intermediate dancers with leaders who often stare at their feet, are
oblivious to other dancers around them, and seem to know only static
patterns which never move anywhere, or
(c) Hot shot Advanced tangueros darting in and out showing off their latest
gauncho/boleo/sacada/triple loop with total disregard for others on the
floor.
Thanks..clay
(This is not about Portland.)
In my experience, the culprits may be all three types and more.
Absolute beginners, when they are found at milongas at all, will tend to
timidly walk along with their partners, performing a chain of bases until
they walk their woman straight into the man's back, who is in front of them.
Or the edge of a table?
The ones who know only static patterns will tend have slight colliions, like
edging past other people's shoulders with a few bumps, stepping into other
people's achilles tendons and such, even if they are not staring at the
floor, but only concentrating on their memory of those static patterns.
Their dance does not have a natural flow, and is not flexible enough always
elegantly move around obstacles.
The "hot shots" can, IMO, hardly be called "advanced", if they can only
execute their boleos by getting their heel caught under other peoples skirts
or in other people's lace stockings. What is a sacada, if you can perform a
perfect lead and a perfect sweeping circle, but you cannot aim where you are
going?
I would say, the main "culprit" is the habit of going to dance studios to
learn steps from teachers who will have the couples dance in different parts
of the room, scattered all over, each with a few square meters to move back
and forth and around in. I have seen stage dancers who have ended up finally
teaching like this: their step patterns did not follow any line of dance at
all, they go back and forth in place. The teachers go to milongas just to
watch, and perform when the floor is cleared for them.
I have seen other teachers who will take a few chairs and strategically
place them on the dance floor, and tell their students: "The line of dance
goes around (or between) these chairs. You have to adjust your steps so that
you can move along this line without ever hitting the chairs." Their
students cause a lot less trouble at the milongas.
As for those who don't even bother to take a number of lessons and move out
there into the jungle (almost) straight away, no comment.
Astrid
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 07:35:40 +0000
From: Russell Ranno <russellranno@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Floor navigation
Hello Clay,
(Sorry I missed Portland!) Although beginners and fledging intermediates
are a problem on the floor, I feel they can be graciously excused as they
struggle with learning how to navigate successfully. Plus, they generally
can be recognized and avoided, limiting damage. The problem is the hot
shots because they are unpredictable, move with greater momentum, and can
inflict serious damage. If you imagine two people arriving at a door at the
same time, do you push your way thru, or hold the door open for the other?
I just don t get it. I really like to play with ganchos and wild turning
patterns but leave them for the practice studio, or for when the floor is
empty. One idiot flailing around a crowded floor disturbs flow, connection,
and creative possibility for a half dozen other couples as they are forced
into protect mode. How could anyone proposing to dance in a social
situation be so inconsiderate, rude, and blind?
Solutions? I don t know, I feel the problem is about consciousness and all
the classes in the world will not temper the hotshots. I have heard stories
about milongas in Argentina where they gang up on such dancers and force
them off the floor. Short of this, or the community denying such dancers
access to milongas, it may just be one of those unpleasant things in life to
be endured and danced thru.
Russell
>From: claybird@TELEPORT.COM
>Reply-To: claybird@TELEPORT.COM
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: [TANGO-L] Floor navigation
>Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 02:10:21 -0800
>
>The 7th Annual Portland TangoFest was over a few weeks ago and since then I
>have received nearly 100 evaluations. I have tallied all of the comments
>and it's interesting to note that the #1 complaint was about poor floor
>navigation at the milongas! To address this issue at future events, and
>because this a universal problem that extends beyond just the Portland
>TangoFest, I would like to open a discussion about this topic.
>Specifically I would like to get feed back about who exactly are the guilty
>culprits. Are they primarily:
>
>(a) Absolute beginners, or
>
>(b) Intermediate dancers with leaders who often stare at their feet, are
>oblivious to other dancers around them, and seem to know only static
>patterns which never move anywhere, or
>
>(c) Hot shot Advanced tangueros darting in and out showing off their
>latest gauncho/boleo/sacada/triple loop with total disregard for others on
>the floor.
>
>I'd appreciate hearing your opinion and experience on this, and please
>specify if your discussion refers to your experience at the Portland
>TangoFest.
>
>Thanks..clay
>
>
>Clay: claybird@teleport.com
>Sue: balibree@yahoo.com
>Phone: (206) 729-7268
>Address: 1340 N 79th St Apt 101, Seattle, WA 98103
>Web: www.claysdancestudio.com
>
https://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/cdp_games
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 11:44:30 -0500
From: Sergio <cachafaz@ADELPHIA.NET>
Subject: Floor navigation
Russel says:
"Solutions? I don t know, I feel the problem is about consciousness and
all
the classes in the world will not temper the hotshots. I have heard stories
about milongas in Argentina where they gang up on such dancers and force
them off the floor. Short of this, or the community denying such dancers
access to milongas, it may just be one of those unpleasant things in life to
be endured and danced thru."
The solutions I propose are:
1- Teachers must be conscious that this problem exists. They have to start
instruction of beginners by teaching how to walk and how to navigate the
floor under different conditions. The instructor should advise the beginner
not to start dancing at the milongas till he is able to navigate the floor
without disturbing the other dancers. The instructor should teach that there
are figures and steps for every occasion, some to do on crowded floors and
some to only execute when space is available and the other dancers are not
disturbed. Organize (if possible) milongas where beginners are accepted ).
2- The organizer of the milonga should appoint an assistant to politely
bring to the attention of the perpetrator any antisocial or disturbing
behavior. If he consistently continues with this type of behavior then the
other leaders may try to collide with him (Not the follower) on purpose and
look at him as if it were his fault the collision occurred. :)) This has to
be done with extreme care in order to prevent any injuries, just a little
push or contact will suffice.
3- At big events there should be an orientation talk describing the program
of activities and the floor etiquette ( allowing if possible time and space
for practice of static and space needing dancing). Opening the milonga one
hour early for "stage steps" or dedicating the last 30 - 60 minutes of the
milonga to the same purpose.
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 14:56:41 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango@FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: floor navigation
Last night, I watched two examples of navigation.
One couple did nothing except the 8CB in the center of the floor. They
obviously had no more than one or two lessons, and yet, they were dancing on
the very crowded floor of a milonga. During one tanda, the women kicked me
and they danced without stopping. They had no idea of how to navigate
around the floor. That subject probably won't come up until they've had
three years of classes learning step patterns.
Another couple, with no experience whatsoever in tango, managed to stay with
the flow and avoided collisions. I watched in amazement since the man only
danced to the music and moved in the line of dance. He had more skill on
the floor that the couple doing the 8CB. All he did was walk, turn and
protect his partner.
I danced several tandas last night with Gregorio who uses the space
available and can dance creatively when the floor is very crowded. He
dances mainly in the second lane and went against the line of dance when he
could use the space behind because he couldn't move forward. He protected
me, but there was nothing he could do when the couple doing the 8CB moved in
for the kill.
Navigation begins during the first class.
Pichi de Buenos Aires
www.totango.net/milongueros.html
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 11:04:43 -0500
From: A Coleman <gurps_npc@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: floor navigation
The major problem outside of Argentina is that they do not teach crowded
floor lead-follow technique.
Quick quiz:
Question 1) We all know that under normal circumstances the guy leads and
the women follows on the dance floor. On a crowded dance floor, where
everyone is dancing tight embrace because they have to, who leads and who
follows?
Answer: The couple in front of you leads you, and the couple behind you
follows you.
When one of the two or three couples further on in the dance floor moves,
leaving a space for you to take, you MUST move forward, taking it. If you
refuse to do this becasue you are trying to do a set figure instead of
dancing improvasitionally, then you are dancing BADLY. I don't care how
perfect the cute turn with the 3 saccadas you did instead, you screwed up.
If the couple next to you also dances badly, then you have blocked the flow
of the dance, and this will ripple back to you, like a bad version of "the
wave". Eventually you will see everyone in front of you stuck, all bunched
up and you will not even realize that your bad dancing is the problem.
Question 2) How can you tell who is a good leader on a crowded dance
floor?
Answer: The good leaders are easily detected by the fact that they always
seem to have more space BEHIND them then they have in front of them. When
a space opens up in front of them, they quickly move in, taking possesion of
it, then use the space behind them that is empty to do a figure. This is
compared to the bad dancer that waits for the couple in front of them to
move, then tries to use the space that opens up to do a figure. The good
leader has JUST as much space to do the figure, but does not end up blocking
the flow of dance. The bad leader has to spend time waiting for space that
he needs and also blocks everyone else on the dance floor.
Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $26.95.
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 09:23:28 -0800
From: Razor Girl <dilettante666@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Floor navigation
Hi Clay,
I think it has less to do with level of dancing,
beginning, intermediate, hot shot etc... and more to
do with how conscientious the leader is to other
dancers and the space around him.
I have danced with plenty of beginners who have no
problem navigating because in crowded situations they
know they do not have the skill to try anything fancy
so they just walk when they can and rock back and
forth when there's no room and never bump into anyone.
The people who cause problems are usually either so
absorbed in expressing something in the music that
they zoom about without regard to the disruption they
may be causing. Or they are concentrating so hard on
the step they are trying to execute that they don't
realize when someone is behind them or in front of
them or whatever. In either case it is unlikely they
even realize they are causing a problem because they
are not aware of the space around them.
When I find myself following one of these leaders I
tend to become rather edgy, keep my eyes open and try
to avoid taking steps that will cause collisions or I
take them smaller than lead.
In Portland, Robert Hauk does a very good job of
teaching beginning students pay attention to their
partner, the music and the space around them. In his
Monday night class he stresses that taking care of his
parter is a leader's number one priority. Part of
taking care of her is not leading her to step into
other people. I wonder if Robert has any suggestions
of how to convey this at festivals.
Regards,
Rose
Portland, OR
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 12:44:23 -0500
From: the pulpo <hpereyra@NYC.RR.COM>
Subject: Re: Floor navigation
In my experience, It has nothing to do with the level of the dancers.
It will be absurd to imagine that during the 40's when we had 300 or 400
people dancing together they were all milongueros!!
Tango, in it's social conception is like a rave: people dancing TOGETHER to
reach a collective mood. In that sense, you not only dance with your
partner, but with the rest of the people sharing the dance floor.
I've seen dancers at Sunderland whose level of dexterity will allow them to
walk on the walls should they want just "walking" all together... Sharing
the dance floor, enjoying the experience of dancing all together.
There are other spaces and occasions to show off with one selves skills:
exhibitions, birthday dances, private spaces and shows
Tango as a Social dance is a totally different concept and the most frequent
misconception about it is to believe that your degree of expertise has to do
with the many steps you have in your repertoire or how complex and intricate
are the figures you perform. This goes against tango social origins and in a
certain way is another dance that shouldn't be called Argentine Tango.
Most of the time this has to do with the way tango is taught.
The pulpo
pulpo@thezvimigdal.com
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 22:57:11 +0100
From: Christian Lüthen <christian.luethen@GMX.NET>
Subject: Re: Floor navigation
Buenas noches listeras y listeros.
Once again our razor girl Rose give some extremely valuable input!
:-)
On 10 Nov 2003 at 9:23, Razor Girl wrote:
> I think it has less to do with level of dancing,
> beginning, intermediate, hot shot etc... and more to
> do with how conscientious the leader is to other
> dancers and the space around him.
That' it: awareness to the problem!
And here teachers can help ... and have to! From the very first
moment on!
One of the best flowing dancefloors (and this one is _really_
crowded! - PDX-Tango-Festival was nothing compared [except the last
night at Alex' which was the best flowing place]), one of the best
flowing dance floors in the world, 'El Corte' in the Netherlands owns
this fact due to Eric Jeurissens (and co-teachers) teaching of
respect for the other dancers ... from the first moment on!
> I have danced with plenty of beginners who have no
> problem navigating because in crowded situations they
> know they do not have the skill to try anything fancy
> so they just walk when they can and rock back and
> forth when there's no room and never bump into anyone.
Dancing with aware 'beginners' (only so called) can be a lot of more
fun than the 'experienced' show-off'ers.
> The people who cause problems are usually either so
> absorbed in expressing something in the music that
> they zoom about without regard to the disruption they
> may be causing. Or they are concentrating so hard on
> the step they are trying to execute that they don't
> realize when someone is behind them or in front of
> them or whatever. In either case it is unlikely they
> even realize they are causing a problem because they
> are not aware of the space around them.
Probably the most dangerous dancers are those semi-advanced who want
to show off all they've leaned.
Festivals are very likely to feature a lot of bad bad dancing: A lot
of workshop of so called 'grand maestros' take place, usually they
try to fullfill 'expectations' (which they also provoke!) and teach
all that 'fancy stuff' (complicated and/or erotic ... hey, there are
cliches in tango!). If such a class takes place right before the
beginning of the evening milonga participant dancers are wound up ...
and very dangerous. This wound up state unfortunately transmits to
many other dancers (who now also show off - in (uncouscious?)
competiotion)! I'd wish there'd be more teachers emphasing on 'small'
'carefull', 'conscious' dancing in their classes - _especially_ at
festivals!!!
[An idea concerning this point: if you are responsible of a long
night running somewhere: vary the amount of available space during
the night according to the attendance! At 'Tango Colon' in Cologne,
Germany, they usally tend to make the dance floor smaler as the night
advances and some people already have left: Therefore dangerous wide
open spaces do not evolve. Also this nicely keeps the cosiness of the
place. :-) ]
Portland Festival wasn't actually as bad as expected concerning the
rudeness on the floor! (as you can read between the lines above: I do
"fear" big festivals for they dancing rudeness) But I obeserved one
very interesting fact: The smoothest night dancing IMHO was the last
night! Starting at the Viscount allready and even getting better at
'Berretin'! (allthough actually a smaller place and even more
crowded)
Perhaps a longer break between the last class of the lessons section
and the beginning of the milonga would help. Allready having the more
advanced classes on a different location was probably a good idea:
Hopefully this discouraged people not really advanced enough from
taking the advanced classes. Also those advanced dancers had to have
a compulsory break before reaching the dancefloor for the night.
And yes: Invite some teachers reknown on that very subject to teach
'dancing at the crowded floor'! :-)
Another _very_ important factor: DJ'ing!!! A good DJ will sense the
sphere on the dance floor, and by choice of the music stimulate where
necessary but also get people quite again if appropriate. (ie.
definitely _no_ 'nuevo' or the extremely heavy Pugliese stuff when
it's overcrowded and the show-off-&-let's-do-big-steps-people are on
the floor.) But I think we had that discussion earlier on the list!
But allow one short comment as a hint to DJ's: Vary the volume of the
music (I feel that many (most?) milongas anywhere play to loud)!!!
[even further: vary the ligthning of the place.]
Portland was great ... I loved the dancing (did not take any class
... but danced all nights until the end! :-) ) ... hope to be back
next year!!! Very friendly festival!!! Thanks!
Christian
christian@eTanguero.net
https://www.eTanguero.net/
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 15:55:41 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG>
Subject: Re: Floor navigation
>The 7th Annual Portland TangoFest was over a few weeks ago and since
>then I have received nearly 100 evaluations. I have tallied all of
>the comments and it's interesting to note that the #1 complaint was
>about poor floor navigation at the milongas! To address this issue
>at future events, and because this a universal problem that extends
>beyond just the Portland TangoFest, I would like to open a
>discussion about this topic. Specifically I would like to get feed
>back about who exactly are the guilty culprits. Are they primarily:
I agree with Razor Girl and The Octopus that you can't blame style or
level. Good navigation is a responsibility (let's not call it blame)
required of ALL the dancers in the room, no matter what style or
level.
Obviously there are a few who don't adhere to it, but most of us can
agree that collisions, injuries, racing about wildly, leading huge
boleos and long-strides are not appropriate when things are crowded.
The problem is that most people have a "mental concept of tango" that
functions only when the floor is wide-open, and it is difficult for
them to adapt to crowded conditions. And, they are habituated to that
kind of tango.
Only when they go to Buenos Aires or to one of these popular
festivals are they faced with the requirement of changing their
concept of tango.
Mental Construct of Tango
The problem of decent navigation does not relate specifically to a
particular STYLE of tango, rather to the dancers' MENTAL CONSTRUCT of
"what it means to do tango". People need to be capable of choosing a
concept of Tango APPROPRIATE to the conditions, and to be able to
change habits.
For example:
(1) Performing on stage is a CONCEPT (not style) of doing tango where
the goal is to project externally to an audience, use exciting
vocabulary, and to manage the floor in a way that the audience is
entertained.
(2) Doing tango at a wide-open practice is a CONCEPT of doing tango
where you can walk with long-strides, work on 6 or 8 step figures,
zig-zag around the room without hitting anyone, practice the fancy
material from your last workshop, etc.
(3) Tango in a crowded milonga is a specific SOCIAL ACTIVITY consisting of:
(a) Meeting and dancing with old and new friends
(b) Seeking a tango trance
(c) Lanes that progress around the room; no zig-zagging around the middle
(d) Smaller 2-3 step sequences and rock-steps
(e) Moderate strides and cautious boleos
(f) MAYBE we tolerate occasional brushes with other dancers
These are all VALID ways to do tango; each is appropriate in the
proper situation. I think the CONCEPTS of doing tango in a practice
vs a milonga are not well-differentiated by most teachers and
dancers, at least here in the US.
Who is to Blame?
This lack of awareness mostly has to be laid at the feet of the
teachers and event organizers.
How many teachers really provide an awareness of dancing the way it
is done in a crowded Buenos Aires milonga or at a popular festival?
Or do they only teach fancy figures appropriate to stage or open
practice space?
How many organizers set up the room for a Milonga with a perimeter of
the dance floor, tables and chairs for socializing, tandas for
trading partners? Or are they really setting up the room for a
practice where people zig-zag around the open middle of the floor?
How many DJs use tandas, and create the atmosphere of a
milonga...varying the music, managing the social energy, paying
attention to the emotional content of the room? Or do they just pop a
couple CDs into the player and press random?
Changing people's awareness.
In Denver we have all varieties of tango, big, small, acrobatic,
trance, stage, social, salon, nuevo, milonguero, etc... We have tango
performances, classes, practices and milongas.
People in Denver tend to adapt appropriately. Even those who most
prefer big movements, and showy vocabulary are aware of which
situation they are in. So they work on fancy things at the practice
or in performance, and change to a milonga concept of dancing when
they attend a milonga.
In fact, the Denver Tuesday practice is in a very large room, divided
by the DJ table & sound system into two parts one for practicing, the
other for social dancing.
The practice side is less crowded, and you don't have to move
line-of-dance. Often people are trading moves from the last workshop,
or working out something with their favorite partner.
The speakers point to the social dance side, which has tables and the
bar. This side is more like a milonga, where everyone moves
line-of-dance, most change partners after every set.
This set-up helps everyone understand and learn to differentiate
between different mental concepts of tango.
--
Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org/
stermitz@tango.org
303-388-2560
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:08:38 -0800
From: Dave Schmitz <dschmitz0077@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Trance, was: Floor navigation
Warning -- humor ahead ...
Apologies in advance to Tom,
who loves his trances.
--- Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG> wrote:
> In Denver we have all varieties of tango, big,
> small, acrobatic,
> trance,
If one watches tango dancers most anywhere,
one can see two main types of trances:
- trance of enjoyment, which says "oh how I wish
the music would last forever"
- trance of fear, which says "why did I accept a
dance with this guy???"
Also known as the "deer in the headlights" look.
The two can usually be distinguished by the presence
or absence of a smile on the woman.
In dark rooms, one may have to look very carefully
to determine whether it's a smile of enjoyment
or if the lips are tightened in a grimace which says,
"I'm going to kill my friend for telling me to dance
with this guy."
If the lady is wearing a sleeveless and/or backless
dress, one might notice muscle tension, which is often
an indicator for trance #2.
If the room is cool, then droplets of sweat may be
another indicator of inner tension. In warm rooms,
ectodermal moisture is not an indicator.
In difficult diagnostic cases, a determining factor
may be what happens during the cortina. If the lady
lingers around, this may be an indicator that the
trance was of type #1.
However, romantic relationships have been known to
obfuscate identification of the type of trance under
observation, as the indicators may derive from
other unknown stimuli. In such cases, one must
discard the study results.
For my many readers who are awaiting my new book,
to be titled "A Psychoanalytic Analysis of Tango
Body Language", please note that there will be an
entire chapter devoted to my in-depth analyses of
the tango trances. Based on preliminary studies,
there are also fifteen minor categories of tango
trance plus 57 subvariations of the two major
categories. Due to the size of this project, my
publisher is advising release in seven volumes,
with an abridged edition to come out later,
sadly, shortened to only 800 pages.
But then, my readers may wish to have time to find
their own type #1 trances.
Many type #1 trances to all,
Dr Sabenada
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:07:43 -0700
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@ENSMTP1.EAS.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Floor navigation
Christian Luethen writes:
> But I obeserved one very interesting fact: The smoothest
> night dancing IMHO was the last night! Starting at the
> Viscount allready and even getting better at 'Berretin'!
> (allthough actually a smaller place and even more crowded)
I suspect a lot of that had to do with the fact
that by then most of the panty-waist dilettantes had
left, no doubt concerned with such mundane banalities as
having to go to work Monday morning, a trifling worry of
no more than brief idle amusement to us, the true hard-core
tangueros still remaining. :)
Huck
Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 23:28:35 -0500
From: tangomaniac@JUNO.COM
Subject: floor navigation
I got home today after five nights of dancing tango in New York.
Otherwise, I would have responded sooner the postings about floor
navigation. Since I plan to retire to New York, I spent the day time
riding public transportation through the boroughs to decide where I want
to live. On this trip, I made my first sightseeing sojourn to Staten
Island on the Staten Island Ferry.
At one milonga, it suddenly struck me that the dance floor looks just
like New York Harbor. There are "ships" of different sizes with
"captains" of different skill levels. Clearly, some captains have been
certified by the "tango coast guard" to maneuver in the harbor while
other captains are just plain certifiable.
New York Harbor channels are well marked by red and green buoys. Each
buoy has a light with an unique flashing sequence as there aren't any
street signs in the harbor. All the red buoys line up on one side of the
harbor while the green buoys line up on the other side of the harbor.
(I'm not going to go into the 3 R's for buoy placement.) Some captains
respect and follow the buoys while some don't.
The docking at Whitehall Street (Manhattan) is complicated because the
terminal is a 90 degree turn to the left from the harbor. On one day, the
captain threw the engines into reverse, the helm hard over to starboard
(right) and pulled the stern around until the ship faced the terminal. It
was like he steered the ship in a molinete. On another occasion, the
captain threw the helm hard over to port (left) and was able to get the
ship to turn.)
Some "ships" (couples) have GPS (Global Positioning Satellite) and know
exactly where they are. Some "ships" don't.
I regret there isn't a tango navy that would torpedo errant ships that
stray off course and become a navigational hazard to other "ships."
Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
Only 6 more weeks to New Year's Eve at Dance Manhattan
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:39:26 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango@FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: Floor navigation
Christian Luethen wrote:
I'd wish there'd be more teachers emphasing on 'small'
'carefull', 'conscious' dancing in their classes - _especially_ at
festivals!!!
And yes: Invite some teachers reknown on that very subject to teach
'dancing at the crowded floor'! :-)
Watch the milongueros in the milongas of Buenos Aires! They are the ones
dancing carefully and consciously. They are the best examples of how to
dance on a crowded floor without touching others. The milongueros can't
travel to teach so you'll have to go to Buenos Aires to see how they do what
they do so well. A few of them are teaching--Beto Ayala, Roberto Carreras,
Jorge De Gouvea, Roberto Pujol, Pedro Sanchez, and Ricardo Vidort.
Pichi de Buenos Aires
www.totango.net/milongueros.html
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 18:41:00 +0000
From: jhon santana <newtotango@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: floor navigation
Outside Argentina, like every were else, floor navigation and etiquette is
taught, and taught, and taught, over and over again.
Of course, I'm sure there are some really bad teachers out there.
I'm also sure, there are some really bad students.
But seems to me, that the dancers we are talking about here are not the
beginners, which have the excuse of being beginners (remember being so
nervous and focused on trying to get the God dam thing right)
The ones we are talking about are the perennial unconsidered Forever Tango
wanna bee's, that are only concerned with their own soon to be fame and
Tango glory. This kind, really don't like social Tango, what they like is to
show of.
Take a minute, when you are not dancing yourselves and put them to a very
simple test: Are they looking at the people outside the floor, trying to
catch attention from the onlookers? Trying pathetically to see who is
looking at them? The social dancer is concerned with his partner, and with
the dance floor, BECAUSE the focus is with his partner!
There is also a great disrespect for how Tango is supposed to be culturally.
Not the steps, close embrace, open embrace, etc. It is a gathering of folks,
with a common taste in music and the particular emotions that it raises, all
dancing TOGETHER!
These particular types don't even fathom how much they miss, and how much it
spoils it for the rest of us.
I hope they really succeed, so they go an a very, very long world tour, and
they leave the Milonga dance floor to the social Tango lover.
Compare high-speed Internet plans, starting at $26.95.
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 14:48:34 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango@FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: navigation
Phil wrote:
"Teaching beginners navigation skills from the very beginning, instead of
long memorized patterns also helps."
Not only does it help, it's necessary.
Do you remember your first driver's training lesson?
Keep your eyes on the road ahead
Stay in your lane
Drive a safe distance from traffic
Keep moving with the speed of other traffic
Watch for lane changers
Watch other drivers
The rules of the road are the same for tango, although rather than a
rear-view mirror, he has a partner.
Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2004 11:14:56 -0700
From: Tom Stermitz <Stermitz@RAGTIME.ORG>
Subject: Re: navigation
Strange cultural clash:
Argentines don't follow these rules on the streets where the lanes
are painted on the ground, but they do it in the milongas with no
lanes.
Americans drive in their own lane, but don't adhere to lanes on the
dance floor.
>Do you remember your first driver's training lesson?
>
>Keep your eyes on the road ahead
>Stay in your lane
>Drive a safe distance from traffic
>Keep moving with the speed of other traffic
>Watch for lane changers
>Watch other drivers
>
>The rules of the road are the same for tango, although rather than a
>rear-view mirror, he has a partner.
--
Tom Stermitz
https://www.tango.org/
stermitz@tango.org
303-388-2560
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:05:16 -0800
From: peterwesser <peterwesser@OREGONDUCKS.ORG>
Subject: navigation
Photocopies" is the title of a John Berger book. One of the stories is
about an Athenean open air market:
"It's difficult to walk because the crowd is so tighly packed. Each
person has to proceed like a trickle of water finding his way between
pebbles. And for the others he is a pebble."
Methinks this is a beautiful image that applies also to a crowded
milonga floor.
Is there a lesson to be learned?
Flowing tangos to all,
Peter
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 20:15:51 +0000
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <oleh_k@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: navigation
Peter wrote about finding the way between the couples at milonga:
"Methinks this is a beautiful image that applies also to a crowded milonga
floor.
Is there a lesson to be learned?"
It is a beautiful image, but it does not apply to a crowded milonga floor.
The lesson is this: at milonga we dance not between the couples but _with_
the couples, we have a sense of direction: it's counterclockwise along the
perimeter of the dance floor. The chaotic eastern market metaphor would lead
to many many bruised ankles and egos.
Cheers, Oleh Kovalchuke.
https://TangoSpring.com
>From: peterwesser <peterwesser@OREGONDUCKS.ORG>
>Reply-To: peterwesser <peterwesser@OREGONDUCKS.ORG>
>To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: [TANGO-L] navigation
>Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 11:05:16 -0800
>
>Photocopies" is the title of a John Berger book. One of the stories is
>about an Athenean open air market:
>
>"It's difficult to walk because the crowd is so tighly packed. Each
>person has to proceed like a trickle of water finding his way between
>pebbles. And for the others he is a pebble."
>
>Methinks this is a beautiful image that applies also to a crowded
>milonga floor.
>Is there a lesson to be learned?
>Flowing tangos to all,
>Peter
overload! https://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/
