1698 Follower's axis, contribution to the dance (was 1 foot, 12 inch...)
Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2003 12:13:43 -0800
From: Dan Boccia <redfox@ALASKA.NET>
Subject: Re: Follower's axis, contribution to the dance (was 1 foot, 12 inch...)
Eso, Carlene!!
I'm pretty tall but regardless, I MUCH prefer followers who have their own axis. Good followers have their own axis, balance, posture, etc. no matter how short or tall their partners are. It is impossible to move musically and elegantly if you're constantly relying on your partner for balance. I know several shorter guys who like to dance with some taller women and enjoy a great connection because these women stand on their own two feet, are very musical, and maintain their own axis.
Carlene also subtly makes the point that the body's "center" is not the chest.... a very important statement - the center is right around the belly button, or at least in that region.
Followers have the right to contribute equally to the dance, not be pushed around the floor. Maintaining your own axis, posture, and moving musically enables you to exercise that right. Leaders who sacrifice followers' posture or axis have earned the right to sit a lot.
I also totally agree with Carlene in that the dance for me is about how it feels, not how it looks. That said, those dancers known to have a good "feel" usually look great as well. It's tough to look good when you're hanging on each other for balance.... In fact, when I'm in a new place looking for prospective dance partners, I'm not watching "how it looks", I'm trying to see how it might feel.
Dan Boccia
Anchorage
"Working towards a better feeling"
----- Original Message -----
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 22:15:18 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Follower's axis, contribution to the dance (was 1 foot, 12 inch...)
> Carlene also subtly makes the point that the body's "center" is not the
chest.... a very important statement - the center is right around the belly
button, or at least in that region.
>
Dear Dan,
I have yet to meet the man who leads with his belly button. I wonder what
would happen if I followed the movement of his belly button instead of the
turning of his chest when he initiates a giro.Fact is, while the chest is
moving into the giro,the belly button is still facing the same direction his
hips are.
Other than that, may I suggest you try holding on to and moving a flag pole
somewhere near the bottom and see what happens as opposed to holding it near
the top. And that you ask a tiny, but very strong woman, who is also not
very well balanced herself, esp. in turns, to lead you in the dance using
her arms, while you are wearing 3 inch spike heels. We can talk after that.
Astrid
P.S.
If you have successfully tried any of the above already, I will take your
statements regarding perfect balance as based on good knowledge.. I also
believe, that being very tall you have not been observed dancing with a
woman who is towering over you. Though I am sure, that in theory, this would
not bother you in the least, right ?
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 09:41:49 -0400
From: Nicole Dowell <bailadora2000@EXCITE.COM>
Subject: Re: Follower's axis, contribution to the dance (was 1 foot, 12 inch...)
Someone wrote:
> Carlene also subtly makes the point that the body's "center" is not the<br>chest.... a very important statement - the center is right around the belly button, or at least in that region
In art, yes, the center is around the belly button. When artists are working with nudes they use this to make sure the figure is proportionate. However, in dancing, the center is never your belly button region. Your center is your sternum, located in between your rib cage below your chest. This is for all dancing. It's the center of your balance and control movement, and is where correct rotation of the upper and lower halves of your body should be made. I've been a dancer for 23 years, don't think anyone can dispute that as the center.
Nicole
Miami
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 15:57:24 +0200
From: Petra Starmans <petra.starmans@BEFREE.CH>
Subject: Re: Follower's axis, contribution to the dance (was 1 foot, 12 inch...)
Dear Astrid
in between work I read your answer to a mail of Dan I did not read well myself.
Nevertheless, risking saying something which was already said, I would like to add my experience with Pilates body training to this aspect.
>I have yet to meet the man who leads with his belly button. I wonder what
>would happen if I followed the movement of his belly button instead of the
>turning of his chest when he initiates a giro.Fact is, while the chest is
>moving into the giro,the belly button is still facing the same direction his
>hips are.
In Pilates there is an exercise which involves standing facing forward with the hips and rotating the upper torso, alternating to the right and to=
the left. Turning to the right, you take the stretched right arm (and shoulder part) with you (horizontal plane), turning to the left the stretch=
ed left arm. In both situations the upper torso moves, in fact as if initiating a giro.
Unpractised, one tends to initiate this turn movement by a pull of the most exterior part (hand, upper arm, or shoulder). After practising more on=
e is taught the possibility of initiating the exact same movement from the body centre. The result is, that the body centre will stay in front mor=
e than when you initiate with arms or shoulders and the transfer of motion is more controllable.
For me the initiation in the body centre does not mean 'moving the centre in the direction of the overall movement'. In fact it is more the center=
ing, stabilizing in the centre before stretching the muscles that make the upper torso move. In this case you will much less pull your partenaire =
out of balance by the force of the turn movement or by a unwanted variation in your own balance.
The question is only, if the follower can sense that very first part of the whole giro or will notice only the movement resulting after the center=
ing.. my guess is, a follower can sense it but maybe not really read it.
Petra
-----
Petra Starmans
Design, Konzept und Beratung
Honrainweg 11
8038 Zürich
Switzerland
Tel/fax + 41 1 262 06 55
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 11:34:27 -0700
From: Razor Girl <dilettante666@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Follower's axis, contribution to the dance (was 1 foot, 12 inch...)
Astrid said:
> I have yet to meet the man who leads with his belly
> button. I wonder what
> would happen if I followed the movement of his belly
> button instead of the
> turning of his chest when he initiates a giro.Fact
Hi all,
I'm feeling inspired. I think that something needs to
be said here in regards to the difference between
dancing tango steps and dancing tango. I have met a
lot of people who dance tango steps, they can lead and
I can follow, but there are fewer people I have met
who can dance tango. Of those few, I would definitely
include both Dan B. and Tom S. So it is my personal
bias that they know what they are talking about.
There is a distinct difference, I have experienced
when dancing with someone whose lead originates in his
belly. That is not to say that I do not also feel the
lead through the chest. It is a difficult thing for
me to describe, but it is a "deeper" feeling lead.
Cacho Dante is one milonguero that comes immediately
to mind who dances in this way.
A lot of topics on this list can really seem to dwell
on what part of the body moves where. Inch by inch
sort of debates. More importantly however is whether
or not a person is dancing from their soul, whether or
not they open up to their partner, and the energy that
is exchanged between the two people. Foot placement
and where the arms are etc, matter little when that
type of thing is happening.
Regards,
Rose
