Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2006 17:17:28 -0400
From: "TangoDC.com" <spatz@tangoDC.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] Followers' voices
To: tango-L@mit.edu
Hi all,
I'd like to step us out of this (now) circular discussion about
dialogues vs. choruses (etc.) and point us in the how-to direction again.
It seems clear that most of us agree on the following points:
(a) Followers have to follow, not backlead, disrupt the lead, or
rudely "refuse" invitations
(b) Followers have (or ought to have) a more-than-passive voice in
the dance
(c) Leaders do (or should) create opportunities for the follower to
be creative
(d) Leader and follower should ideally move as one
We've seen a few examples (from Trini and others) of how followers
"renegotiate" or modify the lead when problems arise. We might call this
"tango self-defense," and it's a worthwhile topic for both leaders and
followers to explore.
But let's explore it another time.
The question I'm curious about now, and which the recent discussion has
been leading to, is this: How can followers participate more actively in
the dance? No one has disputed the statement that leaders learn to
listen more easily than followers learn to speak, so I think it's
important to spend a little time on the matter. It might help some of
the dancers here to advance their skills, and it can certainly help many
of the teachers explain _how_ the tango (successfully) becomes more than
a one-way street.
Here's what I've discovered so far...
Followers can "insert" their own steps when the leader leaves space for
it, but this can be very disruptive. Not only is the follower stepping
without a lead to, but she's interpreting the "space" provided by the
leader as an invitation to autonomy. Leaders can get frustrated by such
things, because both navigational problems and musical problems can
arise (esp. if the leader was deliberately leading a pause).
It _might not_ be such a problem, depending on the leader's mood (or
intentions) and the music; but it _can_ be a problem.
If I'm dancing to the bass-pulse in Di Sarli's "Corazon," for instance,
and leading my partner to dance to the violin solo; and if I lead her to
pause when the violin pauses, but she steps to the bass-pulse instead;
the result could be either:
(a) me disappointed in the failure of my structural idea
(b) me pleased at the change of my idea into something else
Now, the structural idea might not become apparent to my follower until
she hits the pause, so there's no reason to say it's a faulty lead. And
depending on how badly I want to create that part of the dance (with or
without premeditation), I could have either of the two reactions
described above. Also, if her "inserted" idea isn't stellar, I'd likely
be disappointed.
Since there's a 50% chance (let's say) that one half of the couple will
be disappointed, I'd like to conclude that such kinds of following
(interpreting "space" as space to improvise) are rather imperfect. Not
outlawed, naturally-- we don't expect every dance to be perfect-- but
not the best possible decision, all things considered.
There are, of course, differences in leading a pause and leading
free-space moments for the follower, but I think a follower has to know
you pretty well to read the difference. But that's almost another topic.
I find that the type of creative following described above occurs when
the follower wants to be creative, or can't help but interpret the music
a certain way, or needs to raise her voice in the dance, whatever the
motive may be. This isn't a matter of expertise, really; it's a matter
of feeling stifled, and reacting to it by reflex, which I can sympathize
with on the most basic level of my being.
There is, however, a kind of interactive following that, I've noticed,
doesn't interfere with the lead, and doesn't break the connection, but
actually strengthens it. It's also continuous, and provides the follower
a constant voice in the dance. I mean the collection, the last part of
any step (which can also influence the beginning of the next). This I
consider the follower's main creative resource.
Every step I lead is something like a text, which my partner interprets.
She sharpens and clarifies my meaning. If I lead a slow step, for
instance, my partner can collect just as slowly, even more slowly, or
slightly faster than the step began. Likewise for a fast step, or an
even step. They're all "agreements" with the lead, and they have a
greater presence, a more responsive voice, than mere passive following.
These slight variations can be felt clearly by the leader; and if he's
truly improvising the dance, he'll take his future direction thence.
Analytically: The follower's collection (what she does) determines when
she's fully over her axis (what he feels) and ready to move again.
In my experience, this doesn't create "autonomous stepping" by the
follower. It actually makes the dance more viscous, more fluid, and more
rhythmically varied. It is also easy for the leader to override the
follower's decision if he needs to navigate, or wants to propose a
different musical idea. (E.g., if she collects fast, signaling that
she's ready to step, and he wants to continue moving slowly, he can (a)
turn her on her axis while he finishes, or (b) lead her to step again
while he completes his single step, resolving things by ending up with
both partners slightly apilado or off-axis.) (If this sounds sloppy to
some of you, I admit that it does happen all the time by accident; yet I
contend that if we make it happen on purpose, we clean it up quite a lot
in the process.)
I've tried the following exercise, in lessons and practice session, to
develop this type of interaction via the collection. I have my partner
backlead for an entire song, to get her thinking creatively, and to
demonstrate how rough and uncertain the connection thereby becomes. Then
I instruct her to follow me, but to collect however she wishes-- but not
to surprise me: to communicate with me. The result is always (so far,
anyway) a dance in which I never relinquish the lead, but in which my
partner is almost completely in charge of musicality. The connection is
deeper than usual as well, no matter how often we change embraces (if we
do at all).
In any event, followers can use the collection to influence the dance
without being disruptive. They can signal to their leader to speed up or
slow down, whether in passages or (I dare say) per step. I'm not saying
it's easy, but it happens, and it makes the dance feel great, so long as
the follower's not a motormouth about it, and can stick to the decisions
she makes. (When first playing with this technique, some followers find
themselves changing their mind a little too much, and don't communicate
as clearly as they might. As they learn to use it, of course, this
disappears.)
Now, before anyone objects to this as being overly subtle, or for
certain styles only, or whatever, I'd like to submit that it *already*
happens all the time, whether or not the follower is doing it with any
intention. We usually attribute it to body type: certain people are
taller, or heavier, or tinier, or whatever, and leaders feel their
bodies move in different ways, and adjust their dance accordingly. (Good
ones do, anyway; even good beginners.) We also attribute it to
personality, since some followers are more playful or like a greater
variety of speeds, while some are more ponderous and indulgent with
their movements, and so forth.
But because-- however-- big women can feel sprightly in the dance, while
petite ones can feel massive, I think body type and actual personality
may have little to do with one's physical dance persona. Many women are
probably collecting "creatively" without realizing it. Becoming more
aware of its effect can allow a follower to dance a greater number of
styles (whether we call this the embrace or the musical style, e.g.,
vals, candombe, Tanturi, D'Arienzo), and also to vary her movements
within a particular style more colorfully.
In any case, I think learning this type of interactive following is what
propels a dancer from an intermediate to an advanced stage, or from the
advanced stage out of (the need for) group classes entirely. It's the
sort of thing that awakens you to your own mind. It begins to create
dramatic content in the dance. It's the type of skill that gives you a
sense of freedom-within-form, which is, in every art, what sends an
apprentice forwards with the beginnings of an original personality.
To sum up, with a great clearing of the throat: Followers can express
themselves in the dance by more consciously closing their legs around
their partner's (ahem) lead.
This is another way of saying that the humorous adage about tango
dancing-- that the man opens the lady's legs, and she closes them-- can
be taken from the whorehouse stoop, tidied up, and presented on the
Official Podium (stoop) of learning.
Any thoughts? I'd be particularly interested in hearing of other ways in
which followers can add to the dance without subtracting from the lead,
since what I describe is only one means to that end.
With rafters awash in the flames of possibility,
Jake Spatz
Washington, DC
Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2006 10:01:06 +0200
From: Alexis Cousein <al@sgi.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Followers' voices
To: spatz@tangoDC.com
Cc: tango-l@mit.edu
TangoDC.com wrote:
> The question I'm curious about now, and which the recent discussion has
> been leading to, is this: How can followers participate more actively in
> the dance? No one has disputed the statement that leaders learn to
> listen more easily than followers learn to speak, so I think it's
> important to spend a little time on the matter. It might help some of
> the dancers here to advance their skills, and it can certainly help many
> of the teachers explain _how_ the tango (successfully) becomes more than
> a one-way street.
>
> Here's what I've discovered so far...
>
> Followers can "insert" their own steps when the leader leaves space for
> it, but this can be very disruptive. Not only is the follower stepping
> without a lead to, but she's interpreting the "space" provided by the
> leader as an invitation to autonomy. Leaders can get frustrated by such
> things, because both navigational problems and musical problems can
> arise (esp. if the leader was deliberately leading a pause).
The follower does have a duty to "counterlead" (I'll just use another
word to distinguish it from backleading) when doing her own steps or
even adornos - let's just say she must display resistance and an
unwillingness to be moved (or moved too fast, or in a direction she
doesn't want to move) by the leader.
[I'll add a footnote saying that there's something particular about
Argentinean women in , that they'll also tend to resist vehemently
when you're trying to do something wrong even when they're "just"
following, a skill I haven't seen in that many European or US
followers.]
If the leader trusts the follower(and listens), that's usually enough,
given the leader should be expecting a signal when he leaves room for
the follower to be creative.
But in my opinion *good* followers do this all the time - they do
have more than their bit of responsibility in determining the precise
*timing* of a dance.
>
> It _might not_ be such a problem, depending on the leader's mood (or
> intentions) and the music; but it _can_ be a problem.
Of course it can. But then, followers should not insert adornos,
their own steps or backlead something surprising unless they feel
the leader leaves room for it.
>
> If I'm dancing to the bass-pulse in Di Sarli's "Corazon," for instance,
> and leading my partner to dance to the violin solo; and if I lead her to
> pause when the violin pauses, but she steps to the bass-pulse instead;
She can't step to the bass pulse if you have a good connection and you
aren't. She can either adorn the pause if she understand you're
pausing, or try to convince you to forgo your original idea (luring
you into moving to the bass pulse instead) - and if she fails, well,
you're the leader, so she'll just have to compromise (and curse you
for your thick-headedness ;) ).
> Also, if her "inserted" idea isn't stellar, I'd likely
> be disappointed.
If you'll pardon the expression, shit happens. Wonderful things also
can, and they don't come without taking any risks. But see below -
there's a way to be courageous without being reckless ;).
> but not the best possible decision, all things considered.
If you want to play safe and dance "cleanly", no.
>
> There are, of course, differences in leading a pause and leading
> free-space moments for the follower, but I think a follower has to know
> you pretty well to read the difference.
Bingo. That's why in a social setting you've got to have your antennas
out - if you're dancing with someone you don't know, you'll always
explore safe havens first, and then gradually challenge each other
just a bit, just to test the flight envelope...and who knows in
what unchartered waters you'll end up, depending on the follower,
the mood and the connection?
> In any event, followers can use the collection to influence the dance
> without being disruptive.
You're taking the words right out of my fingers. Really good
followers, BTW, can influence timing throughout the step, not only
in the collection.
> In any case, I think learning this type of interactive following is what
> propels a dancer from an intermediate to an advanced stage, or from the
> advanced stage out of (the need for) group classes entirely.
Gosh -- you're sending shivers down my spine when you're defining
people as belonging in strata like that.
--
Alexis Cousein al@sgi.com
Solutions Architect/Senior Systems Engineer SGI
--
Bad grammar makes me [sic].
Date: Tue, 4 Jul 2006 07:31:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kat <hellkat_13@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Followers' voices
To: tango-l@mit.edu
It's kind of funny to me how many of these opinions on
how a follower should develop her voice are coming
from men who would like to determine the parameters of
that voice.
I'm not really big on tango theory, because I think
it's all pretty subjective, and dependent on the
moment - who you're dancing with, what you're dancing
to, what you had for breakfast, how your partner
smells, whatever else influences your day.
Personally, the foundation of my voice has come out of
a few things. The primary influence is considering
the music just as much my partner as the leader. Next
is irritation, and self preservation. a lot of my
embellishments came out of either trying to gently
(and sometimes not so gently) remind the leader where
the beat was, or out of trying to maintain my own
balance when being thrown about. Those habits stuck
and (i'd like to think) are more refined now, but have
paved the way for more experimentation.
I'm fortunate in that I get to dance with some really
great dancers pretty regularly. When that is the
case, then I am comfortable enough to explore options
with more finesse. playing with my hips more,
breaking down steps to tiny parts, fancier flourishy
bits, whatever. I find now that often my voice is
most effective when it is shown in tiny ways that only
we might notice. But that can only happen when the
dance is more of a conversation than an excercise with
a machine that does rote patterns. I don't think most
followers have that opportunity very often.
You can still develop a voice without that, but I
think it has very little to do with waiting for
pauses. It has to do with finding minutia within
every step that you can make your own. the way you
move your foot, shift your weight, close your legs,
hold your partner's hand, etc. and all those things
are almost easier to focus on when you're dancing with
someone who's not showing off or trying to make you
work for it. clearly, that can't happen all the time.
but it definitely doesn't need to wait for a pause.
just my .02
Kat
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 2006 10:16:47 -0700 (MST)
From: Huck Kennedy <huck@eninet.eas.asu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Followers' voices
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Alexis Cousein writes:
> If you'll pardon the expression, shit happens. Wonderful
> things also can, and they don't come without taking any risks.
Ah, friend, you've just colorfully described two
of the most wonderful things in the world (although
alas, one of them is no longer available to us):
A social tango dance in which the partners are willing
to push the envelope, and a Grateful Dead show. :)
Huck
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