2527 Fwd: Chicho, Mauricio, Fabian vs Piazzola, Salgan, Stampone
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:13:21 -0700
From: Carlos Lima <amilsolrac@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Fwd: Chicho, Mauricio, Fabian vs Piazzola, Salgan, Stampone
Stephen Brown defines some "new" terms.
OK, but how do you say "New tango" in Spanish?
Could it be that it is all going to hinge on word order? I am a little
skeptical.
Cheers,
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 09:00:31 -0700
From: Carlos Lima <amilsolrac@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Chicho, Mauricio, Fabian vs Piazzola, Salgan, Stampone
Concerning Stephen Brown's definitions around "new tango" ...
The private channel indicates that I did not make myself clear (nothing new
here). Also, I see only the archive, which I suspect is acting up again, so I
may be missing postings.
First, I found the definitions useful, and I would have no qualms about using
most of them myself. When I wrote "new" terms, I meant terms with the word
new in them ... or related thereto.
My issue really has to do with my belief that the labels "Tango nuevo", or
(much less often "Nuevo tango"), as well as the equivalent English "New
tango", have long ago been adopted in the musical domain to designate new
music viewed by it's composers, Piazzola and others, as an extrapolation of
the classical tango tradition (something like that, not trying to be precise
here). This is not new-new-new, since it goes back to the late
nineteen-fifties or so.
I am also inclined to believe (but I am far from sure) that the usage
reported by Stephan of "new" / "nuevo" to designate the emerging new dance
idiom issuing from the re-thinking of the tango dance within the "Naveira
school" (again, not trying to be precise), while heard frequently abroad,
e.g., in the USA, is not common in Arg. This, if true, is not surprising, for
the reasons above. If the label is used commonly, *I* will be surprised, for
the same reason.
I have preferred to use a different label, and not just for "academic"
reasons. I have seen that the two meanings of "nuevo" floating around
(usually in Spanish, much more rarely in English) confuse people, even
veterans of the dance, and lead many to believe that we are just dealing with
two aspects of the same thing. The latter belief is, in my opinion,
completely off base, and almost irresistible as the "new"-est tango myth.
In my more elfish moments I have used "nouveau" for these innovative trends
in the dance. Since the roots of the innovation lie in an analysis of the
classical tango of the 40's, and since the latter is often thought of as
being the "dernier cri de la mode" by people who have been misinformed, there
is a slight tinge of irony in the choice of the French word. You know,
nouveau ... riche.
I came to realise that this is a touch unfair to the great artists and common
dancers who are ensuring that the tango remains a living art, and an exciting
one. So, at least in my more sober moments, I have used "avant guarde tango".
Am I proposing these? Not really, neither is really much good. (Millennium
tango perhaps ... Just kidding.) But I AM proposing that we look for a
satisfactory alternative to "tango nuevo" or "new tango", before a lot more
crap accumulates, not as a result of looking seriously at the thing itself,
but as a result of playing with labels and whatnot.
Cheers,
Date: Tue, 22 Jun 2004 17:53:20 -0500
From: Stephen Brown <Stephen.P.Brown@DAL.FRB.ORG>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Chicho, Mauricio, Fabian vs Piazzola, Salgan, Stampone
Carlos Lima wrote:
>Stephen Brown defines some "new" terms.
I beg to differ. I am simply reporting what seems to be the usage of new,
nuevo and neo among Argentine tango dancers in the United States.
I do agree that it is strange to parse variations of the word new, and
that it is particularly confusing to call the music of Astor Piazzolla,
new tango (tango nuevo in Spanish) and then refer to the analysis of
Gustavo Naveira Fabian Salas (and the dance style that results) as nuevo
tango. Neo tango hardly helps, but at some point what was considered new,
must be considered no longer new.
--Steve
