3711  III Campeonato Mundial de Tango -- second semi-final round Tango de Salon

ARTICLE INDEX


Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 03:14:21 -0300
From: Janis Kenyon <jantango@FEEDBACK.NET.AR>
Subject: III Campeonato Mundial de Tango -- second semi-final round Tango de Salon

Once again, ten couples danced in ten rounds for a new panel of five judges:
Marta Anton (canyengue teacher), Geraldine Rojas (24--stage
performer/teacher), Juan Belsito (77), Julio Balmaceda
(40--performer/teacher), Elina Roldan (performer/teacher).

The evaluation criteria stated that couples shall constantly move
counterclockwise and avoid remaining in the same position for over two
musical measures. If this rule had been observed by the judges, many of the
couples wouldn't have made it to the semi-final round. Not only did many
dance against the line of dance, there were two rounds when 9 of the 10
couples came to a complete halt for several measures during a Pugliese
tango; the only ones who kept dancing were milongueros Osvaldo Centeno and
Pedro Sanchez.

We were informed who was responsible for the selection of recorded music for
the competition. It was the same person who was given the job at last
year's competition. Sergio Cortazzo isn't a social dancer accustomed to
hearing music in the milongas. He only dances choreography. If any of you
reading this are thinking about entering next year's competition, I suggest
you become familiar with the recordings of El Arranque, Orquesta La Escuela
del Tango and Color Tango. Their music will be used for the competition as
long as Sergio is in charge of the selection.

Thirty-eight couples from the semi-finals were announced, and the top two
couples from the Campeonato Metropolitano will be included in the finals on
Saturday night. Finalists range in age from 20s to late 70s. Twenty-four
couples are from Argentina. The others represent Chile (2), Colombia (4),
Russia (1), Japan (2), Portugal (1), Germany (1), Italy (2), and the USA
(1). Colombia was represented by eight couples. One very young couple from
Cali, Colombia had my vote. Oscar and Victoria didn't make it to the
finals, but he really danced the music.

Pedro Sanchez and Graciela didn't make the cut, but Osvaldo Vicente Centeno
and Elba Biscay did--at least there is ONE milonguero going to the finals.
It's easy to see how politics are at work and WHO you know is more important
than how you dance. Local teachers like Gerardo Quiroz and Maria Eugenia
Cuyas, Carlos Tedeschi and Ana Gregori, Maxi Copello (son of Carlos Copello)
know the right people. They all should have lost points for not moving.
There is no one more well-connected to the Association and judges than
Fabian Peralta and Natacha Poberaj, professional stage dancers who would
have had no chance whatsoever of winning in the stage competition, so they
entered the salon category.

And now to mention the regulars in the milongas: Carlos Cardoza and Griselda
Brunini, Norma Fernandez, and Elsa (she cried) who kept trying and finally
made the last cut to the final round. Lito and Lydia Filipini, winners of
last year's Campeonato Metropolitano, are pleased to be dancing in the
finals again this year.

You wouldn't think a world competition would attract new dancers, but Tim
Ferris from NYC had guts to enter after only five months of classes. But he
had one of the most experienced stage dancers in Buenos Aires as his
partner. They danced in the semi-finals rounds, but if they had made it to
the finals, I would have questioned the judging. He happens to be taking
private lessons from one of the judges. The rules don't mention anything
about a judge withholding an evaluation for conflict of interest. They
should.

And last, but not least, I have to mention the couple from Miami -- Richard
and Colette. This was a shock, but not really a surprise, that this couple
actually made the finals. They can't dance and look more like wanna-be
stage performers. They ended every tango as if they were on stage rather
than on a social floor. Maybe Zotto put in a good word for them with the
judges.

Janis Kenyon
Buenos Aires





Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 03:38:34 -0500
From: el turco <shusheta@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: III Campeonato Mundial de Tango -- second semi-final round Tango de Salon

Janis reports from BsAs regarding unfortunate(!) events of Tango world.

The world of Tango has two faces like a medallion, the most commonly
seen one-front side is Buenos Aires Tango world. This side is made of
a special glass that changes its color under different light sources
(stage, nostalgia, tourism (plata $), art). Everybody can easily see
this side, however the other side is stays in the dark for most us.
The back side of the medallion is your local tango world (nationwide).
The back side is not well designed just left as is, however it's made
of amalgamated metals which we are not sure exactly about the
structure of it yet.

The front side: Buenos Aires Tango
rule #1 there was NO goal of developing tango community, mostly
individualized tango is happening. There won't be Community focused
Tango in BsAs.

rule#2 dancers must choose what are they gonna be, "milonguero" or
"bailarine". Most of the people chose to become "bailarines". They
work hard, learn intensively, and get their names out. Exhibitions,
cena dinner tango shows, cabarets, on the street, lessons for
foreigner tango dancers, then travel around the world if they can.
This is the most desired dream for hundreds of tango dancers in BsAs.
Of course there must be ways to help them to become famous. For
instance Tango World Championship thing.
I know some people who spent their money and time to get into it and
compete, I know some teachers who help them to compete.
If i were a social tango dancer-milonguero in BsAs Why i would attend
this Championship?
Imagine I'm 72, my partner and i somehow-decide to compete, but for what?
-some friends think that we dance really great?
- ambition?
-self satisfaction?
-for fun?
I don't get the point if someone is a milonguero why compete? and talk
about the rumors, or bribing or make fun at stage -oriented
dancers-teachers?
If a milonguero wants to compete with others (grandchildren) who has
5-10 year history in Tango this is not fare for those young people.
Imagine that my partner and I've been dancing 45 years, almost
everyday. there is this couple from Japan , they started partnering
3-4 years ago, and they've been dancing Tango 5 years. Song is a
lovely vals by De Angelis Orchestra, Angelica. My partner and I would
be so happy to hear that song since we have heard the same song over
35 years may be 12780 times. The couple from Japan would be happy too,
but I don' think that this would be so fare for them.

This is Argentine Tango, and competition happens only on "pista" dance
floor among leaders or followers to get better dances, that's all.
This is one of the codes of milongueros. This sounds similar when
Astor Piazzolla integrated jazz into Tango music. They said that
that's not Tango. What's wrong with Color Tango, or El Arranque?
They've been around more than a decade. Unfortunately most of the
milongueros -social tango dancers- have a limited, rigid and rusty
musicality. If anyone listen to same music over 40 years I bet you can
get some musicality. However, foreigners and young generation (18-45)
have to study musicality. It wouldn't be so logical to organize a
Championship saying that OK folks, we will put En esta tarde gris by
Canaro Orchestra and tell them to dance like in the milonga. No one
can judge them.

The other side of the medallion:
Tango World Championship in 11 local tango communities (Italy, Russia,
Japan, Colombia, Chile, Uruguay, Brazil, around the world
The organizers of the Championship decided to create a network and
platform for Russians, Japanese or North American dancers under their
own codes.
What's wrong with this. This is the first efficient and large scaled
attempt by Argentine Government in Argentine Tango history promoting
Argentine Tango as World Culture, and art form, not a folk dance of
Argentina. Touristic and several other minor goals attract many good
dancers to get in shape for this Championship.
If you ask me, when I see a Couple from Montevideo, Athens, or
Johannesburg as winners or even in the finals I would be more happy.
I wouldn't feel nothing anything if I see milonguero couple with 45
year in Tango as winners, it does not make sense competition wise.

Enjoy and support the diversity in Tango, as one of the keys to enrich
your tango community.

Bests,
burak ozkosem
Minneapolis, MN
www.tangoshusheta.com




Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 10:49:33 -0300
From: Alberto Gesualdi <clambat2001@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: III Campeonato Mundial de Tango -- second semi-final round Tango de Salon

Dear friends from Tango List

I read the postings of Janis Kenyon about the Mundial de Tango, and wish to make some comments about them . I am not going to milongas actually due to family and work reasons, but keep listening tango music and going to tango events regularly.

1) Music played at the contest.
Orquesta Escuela de Tango : this is a project that involves actually, four promotiongs of young musicians , coached by Maestro Emilio Balcarce , a gifted violinist and bandoneonist that knows the "styles" and therefore teach to the students (already trained musicians ) how to play Di Sarli, D Arienzo, Fresedo, Pugliese , Troilo. Not to replace this orchestras, but to know how the "style" was . There are two CDs , "Contrapunto" (first promotion of the school )., and "Bien compadre" a mix of musicians from the first & second promotion. This CD , "Contrapunto" is excellent, and has a track with Di Sarli style , "Milonguero viejo" that is played as if Di Sarli was present . The second CD "Bien compadre" , has not the same danceable quality , since is more a product to show how the new promotions are doing. It is worth to comment that the new promotions of this Orquesta Escuela includes women, and foreign musicians that came from several countries , not Argentina .
Now the Orquesta Escuela has called for the 5th promotion to start this year , and if God allows, Maestro Emilio Balcarce with his 85 years of expertise will keep bestowing the young musicians with the unique experience he has.

From the first promotion of Orquesta Escuela , started a musical group , called

2) El Arranque, has several CD issued , "El arranque", "Cabulero" , "Clasicos" , "Live at Rete Due , Siwtzerland", "Maestros".

It have had two singers , the second one, Ariel Ardit , keeps with the group, which have seen some changes since their start . One bandoneonist went with Erica di Salvo , and also some members made recordings on their own , like Ramiro Gallo the violinist. Also they made a sextet called Neo Tango to record a quite good CD . There is an arrangement of tango " Amurado" from Laurentz, that is regularly played at FM tango locally . Also their playing of "Celos" is quite good , it has the flavour of Ruddy Valentino and the silent movies of the 304s :)

To say what can be danced from El Arranque and what can not be, is a very personal opinion . This group is looking for musical material and evolving to find their own style. "Cabulero" Cd for instance, sounds like a Pugliese from the 504s . But they also made a special record for Lidia Borda CDs "Tal vez sera su voz" , and they played Di Sarli style whith Lidia singing "Nido gaucho" and Fresedo style for Lidia singing "Vida mia" . It is an open to revision comment , and there may be more than one opinion.

3) Color Tango . Well .... their last CD "Homenaje a Pugliese" is danceable from top to bottom. Bandoneonist Alvarez have made some excelent arrangements, like the one for "Union Civica" a tango made by Santa Cruz early in the XX century , and is still marvelous. Also their version of "Tu palida voz " made by Charlo, is a quite good valsecito ,not in a quick mood, but more in the line of "Desde el alma" that they have recorded in another CD.

4) Pro competing with amateurs , young people with long time milongueros ....

Well, yes, here Janis has a point, definitely, also the comment from El Turco is correct ,concerning tango salon , it is not the same to have a young couple that started dancing 5 years ago, alongside a couple of oldies milongueros that have been dancing more years than the physical age of the juries . For tango salon , besides elegance and style, "flying hours" are noticeable inmediately . I have seen the Filippi couple dancing at Viejo Correo after they won the Metropolitan championship , and they are fantastic , their feet movement is delicate and subtle , they have years and years of milonga dancing .


Maybe it will be good to have two categories on tango salon for nest championships : >50, < 50 , that will separate the waters .


As a positive note , it is good to see people from so many countries coming to compete on their own, paying their plane tickets, lodging , and expenses.

It would be good also for next competitions, that the local government sponsor milongas at foreign countries, to have qualifying rounds at those places . This can be made with the cultural employees of argentine embassies in london, paris, madrid, washington , beijing , tokyo, sydney, johannesburg , to quote some places with diplomatic representatives.

To sponsor a milonga or milongas would be to have qualifying rounds at the milongas in each capital city , where people go to dance and where they could have the feeling of a competition , without the demand to cover their expenses to travel to Buenos Aires . Also it will be a way to have real milongueros people from all the world , because it could be arranged at local milongas that the collection of entry fees to the local contest will be devoted to pay the expenses of the winners . If 100 couples pay at each country an entry fee of u$s 20 each , it is u$s 4.000 that is good enough for the travel, lodging, expenses in Buenos Aires.

I know that local buenos aires government should pay for this, but let4s talk about possible things, not miracles :)

Unfortunately the revenues and expenses of each championship are not available, we do not know how many money costs to make this championships each year , the local buenos aires government has no information about it, just who are the winners, and press information about the everyday news of the contest .

As a side note , to send the musicians ,artists and dancers that intervene at Buenos Aires Tango Via II , made on Challiot theatre in Paris the year 2004, costed u$s 500.000 ( plane tickets, lodging, expenses, fees ).There was a Cd issued after that event , but I dont think the product of the sale of this CD was enough to cover this expense.

Anyway, it cant be measured as an expense ( I mean this championship of tango in Buenos Aires ) but as one of the many investment in tango promotion worldwide that could be interesting to promote Buenos Aires as a tourist place.

warm regards
alberto gesualdi


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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 10:28:13 -0400
From: Stephane Fymat <stephane_fymat@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: III Campeonato Mundial de Tango -- second semi-final round Tango de Salon

Janis wrote:

"...Fabian Peralta and Natacha Poberaj, professional stage dancers who would
have had no chance whatsoever of winning in the stage competition, so they
entered the salon category."

Janis, how do you know this? Did Fabian and Natacha actually tell you this
or are you just saying it?

Stephane
-----Original Message-----



Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 2:14 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [TANGO-L] III Campeonato Mundial de Tango -- second semi-final
round Tango de Salon

Once again, ten couples danced in ten rounds for a new panel of five judges:
Marta Anton (canyengue teacher), Geraldine Rojas (24--stage
performer/teacher), Juan Belsito (77), Julio Balmaceda
(40--performer/teacher), Elina Roldan (performer/teacher).

The evaluation criteria stated that couples shall constantly move
counterclockwise and avoid remaining in the same position for over two
musical measures. If this rule had been observed by the judges, many of the
couples wouldn't have made it to the semi-final round. Not only did many
dance against the line of dance, there were two rounds when 9 of the 10
couples came to a complete halt for several measures during a Pugliese
tango; the only ones who kept dancing were milongueros Osvaldo Centeno and
Pedro Sanchez.

We were informed who was responsible for the selection of recorded music for
the competition. It was the same person who was given the job at last
year's competition. Sergio Cortazzo isn't a social dancer accustomed to
hearing music in the milongas. He only dances choreography. If any of you
reading this are thinking about entering next year's competition, I suggest
you become familiar with the recordings of El Arranque, Orquesta La Escuela
del Tango and Color Tango. Their music will be used for the competition as
long as Sergio is in charge of the selection.

Thirty-eight couples from the semi-finals were announced, and the top two
couples from the Campeonato Metropolitano will be included in the finals on
Saturday night. Finalists range in age from 20s to late 70s. Twenty-four
couples are from Argentina. The others represent Chile (2), Colombia (4),
Russia (1), Japan (2), Portugal (1), Germany (1), Italy (2), and the USA
(1). Colombia was represented by eight couples. One very young couple from
Cali, Colombia had my vote. Oscar and Victoria didn't make it to the
finals, but he really danced the music.

Pedro Sanchez and Graciela didn't make the cut, but Osvaldo Vicente Centeno
and Elba Biscay did--at least there is ONE milonguero going to the finals.
It's easy to see how politics are at work and WHO you know is more important
than how you dance. Local teachers like Gerardo Quiroz and Maria Eugenia
Cuyas, Carlos Tedeschi and Ana Gregori, Maxi Copello (son of Carlos Copello)
know the right people. They all should have lost points for not moving.
There is no one more well-connected to the Association and judges than
Fabian Peralta and Natacha Poberaj, professional stage dancers who would
have had no chance whatsoever of winning in the stage competition, so they
entered the salon category.

And now to mention the regulars in the milongas: Carlos Cardoza and Griselda
Brunini, Norma Fernandez, and Elsa (she cried) who kept trying and finally
made the last cut to the final round. Lito and Lydia Filipini, winners of
last year's Campeonato Metropolitano, are pleased to be dancing in the
finals again this year.

You wouldn't think a world competition would attract new dancers, but Tim
Ferris from NYC had guts to enter after only five months of classes. But he
had one of the most experienced stage dancers in Buenos Aires as his
partner. They danced in the semi-finals rounds, but if they had made it to
the finals, I would have questioned the judging. He happens to be taking
private lessons from one of the judges. The rules don't mention anything
about a judge withholding an evaluation for conflict of interest. They
should.

And last, but not least, I have to mention the couple from Miami -- Richard
and Colette. This was a shock, but not really a surprise, that this couple
actually made the finals. They can't dance and look more like wanna-be
stage performers. They ended every tango as if they were on stage rather
than on a social floor. Maybe Zotto put in a good word for them with the
judges.

Janis Kenyon
Buenos Aires




Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 12:42:58 -0700
From: Sean de PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: III Campeonato Mundial de Tango -- second semi-final round Tango de Salon

Janis is correct that Colette and Richard from Miami
(the American couple in the III Campeonato Mundial de
Tango) are bailarines. However, she does not do them
justice when she refers to them as "wanna-be stage
performers". According to their website
(www.colette-richard.com) they are the 2003 IDO U.S.
Argentine Tango Champions. I don't know or care what
that means exactly, except to offer evidence that they
are in fact genuine stage dancers, not "wanna-bes".

I have seen them perform, and IMHO, they are great
entertainers. They are beautiful dancers, and very
good at engaging the audience in their performance. I
have also danced with Colette socially. It is an
incredibly wonderful experience. When performing, she
naturally engages the audience; but when dancing
socially, my experience is that she focuses entirely
on our dance, without a thought for the rest of the
room. I do not feel that level of connection from
most "social" dancers. What a pleasant surprise to
receive that gift from a "stage" dancer.

As many people have previously pointed out on this
list, when the good stage dancers go to the milonga,
they dance social tango. Richard and Colette are no
exception. IMHO, social dancers who try stage moves at
the milonga are the "wanna-bes". Not the champion
dancers who perform in competitions for an audience of
judge observers.

I think it is absurd to judge social dancers by
watching them dance with others. A valid way to judge
such a competition would be for the judges to dance a
full tanda with each of the contestants. If social
dancers must engage a judge observer, it is human
nature that the dance will tend toward performance.
Perhaps the judges do not notice those milongueros in
the competition because the milongueros are dancing as
they always have, for their partner, not performing
for a judge observer.

~Sean~







Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 21:47:21 +0200
From: Áron ECSEDY <aron@MILONGA.HU>
Subject: Re: III Campeonato Mundial de Tango -- second semi-final round Tango de Salon

> I think it is absurd to judge social dancers by watching them
> dance with others. A valid way to judge such a competition
> would be for the judges to dance a full tanda with each of
> the contestants. If social dancers must engage a judge
> observer, it is human nature that the dance will tend toward
> performance.
> Perhaps the judges do not notice those milongueros in the
> competition because the milongueros are dancing as they
> always have, for their partner, not performing for a judge observer.

A pretty original idea here... However, it would be quite hard to sell as a
competition...or maybe not?

Aron



Ecsedy Áron
***********
Aron ECSEDY

Tel: +36 (20) 329 66 99
ICQ# 46386265

https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/
* * * * *
https://www.milonga.hu/

"Follow those who seek the truth.
Run from those who claim to have found it."

"There is more than one way to cook an omlette."




Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 20:54:20 +0000
From: Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: III Campeonato Mundial de Tango -- second semi-final round Tango de Salon

--- Sean de PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM> escribis:

> I think it is absurd to judge social dancers by
> watching them dance with others.

I do not understand - isn't is the way that all
dancesr are judged by the public at a milonga, and
some couples are judged the best by public accord? A
social dance is judged for elegance and rythm first,
or I am mistaken? Why should it be different for the
judges?

>A valid way to
> judge
> such a competition would be for the judges to dance
> a
> full tanda with each of the contestants.

Things that are clear fom afar are different up-close.
Or, we could apply a modification of the Heisenberg
effect principle, and say that

"the act of participating in a dance changes the
dance..

therefore a judge who is a part of a dance can not
make an objective judgement of the dance"

> Perhaps the judges do not notice those milongueros
> in
> the competition because the milongueros are dancing
> as
> they always have, for their partner, not performing
> for a judge observer.

But then, if the judges cannot notice the milongueros,
they should not be judges in first place.

Regards,
Lucia


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Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 23:02:33 +0200
From: Áron ECSEDY <aron@MILONGA.HU>
Subject: Re: III Campeonato Mundial de Tango -- second semi-final round Tango de Salon

> Things that are clear fom afar are different up-close.
> Or, we could apply a modification of the Heisenberg effect
> principle, and say that
>
> "the act of participating in a dance changes the dance..

> herefore a judge who is a part of a dance can not make
> an objective judgement of the dance"

Interesting concept. Objective judgement of dancing... Especially in
tango... It must be something like the objective judgement of food, or
fashion, or women.

Aron


Ecsedy Áron
***********
Aron ECSEDY

Tel: +36 (20) 329 66 99
ICQ# 46386265

https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/
* * * * *
https://www.milonga.hu/

"Follow those who seek the truth.
Run from those who claim to have found it."

"There is more than one way to cook an omlette."




Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 17:35:05 -0700
From: Trini de PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: III Campeonato Mundial de Tango -- second semi-final round Tango de Salon

Hola Lucia,

Today, Trini and I have as a houseguest another tango
teacher who will join us at the milonga tonight. These
two very experienced dancers were discussing which men
they preferred to dance with even as I read your
message. I listened in. They never once talked about
how the men looked. They talked about how nice this
man's embrace is, and how well that man listens to
them (so that they are free to express themselves also
in the dance). They talked about how well the men
interpret the music. (Not just rhythm, melody and
harmony also count here.) They talk about whether the
men have balance, and compare how much tension they
hold in their bodies. They judge all these things,
without a thought to who "looks good".

For me it is much the same. I am far more concerned
with how a woman feels than how her dancing looks.
When I travel, my friends at the milongas will call to
my attention those followers that are not to be
missed. When a man visits Pittsburgh from out of town,
I do the same for him. We men may note to each other
how nice this follower's footwork is, or that
follower's embellishment. But this is not a
recommendation to dance with that lady. When we
recommend a lady to each other, it is always: "She
makes such a nice connection" or "She is wonderfully
expressive and adds so much to the dance". Sometimes,
it is enough to just say "Wow".

So to answer your question, no. At least in my circle,
social dancers are not judged by how they look. In
fact, when I meet a woman who talks about how good
this or that dancer looks (even sometimes me), I am
fairly sure that I will not enjoy dancing with her. We
have incompatible goals for the dance.

This is all I have time for  the milonga starts in
less than an hour

Sean


--- Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR> wrote:

> --- Sean de PATangoS <patangos@YAHOO.COM> escribis:
>
> I think it is absurd to judge social dancers by
> watching them dance with others.
>

I do not understand - isn't is the way that all
dancesr are judged by the public at a milonga, and
some couples are judged the best by public accord? A
social dance is judged for elegance and rythm first,
or I am mistaken?



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