4236 To infer that I am against close embrace is
Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 08:57:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] To infer that I am against close embrace is
totally wrong. Stop this crap about close-embrace and open
Dear Robin:
I agree with everything you have said, but when I hear
Tine say, "We are a close embrace shop" and "I never
teach forward ochos". then I do not buy her openness
to all styles at all.
To make it very clear once again, I dance close
embrace 60 to 80 percent of the time, BUT NOT APALIDO
(which is finally being seen as not very practical)
AND NOT ALL THE TIME! To infer that I am against
close embrace is totally wrong. To infer that I bump
into people all the time is also totally wrong.
I am for all styles, and for musicality (which is why
I prefer dancing with skilled musicians) and for great
navigation even in impossible conditions in an
unregulated public space. I do not require a perfect
wooden dance floor, predictable music, and a traffic
cop to be able to dance tango.
As for "the friends', they sound more like a tango
mafia, which is telling everyone here on this list how
to behave and dance. Trini says, "my tango
group"...translation..., "my people", and we all know
what that means amongst the "wise guys", don't we. It
is a term that is used in fact my the mafia to
indicate "their gang".
I did not respond to Trini, because she ordered me to
respond to her and she told me how to answer...lol. I
do not do that. I have responded to her many times in
the past, but I certainly do not work for her. She
does not direct me or my tango. I am not in her gang.
Bottom line:
Let us truly open up tango to all styles and dance
them all, and let us become real friends. I dance all
styles and would encourage others to do the same.
PS- Andres Amarillo definitely dances all styles.
That is why like the way he dances.
Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.oom
--- robin thomas <niborsamoht@yahoo.com> wrote:
> You know from September last year until pretty
> recently I saw Andres and Meredith almost every
> week.
> We were invited to a lot of the same places to
> teach.
> I've known Meredith for maybe 4 or 5 years. I took
> classes with Andres in Bs.As..I think I'm regarded
> as
> a "close-embrace all the time" teacher.
>
> You know not once did we ever discuss whether
> someone
> should dance one way or another. It is simply a non
> issue. It's kind of a embarrassing for us to see
> people we know fighting about such non issues.
>
> Derik, I'm not sure if you realize Tine invited
> Andres
> and Meredith to teach at Yale and that she took
> classes wih them in Bs.As. where she has been many
> many times, and that she's completely fluent in
> Spanish as well as French, Flemish, German and
> English. I've spent a lot of time around her and
> she's
> never suggested that it's better to dance close or
> open. She enjoys dancing both ways herself. We've
> been
> teaching people to dance close at Yale because
> people
> seem to seem to dance something that is more
> recognizable as tango in its feeling quicker that
> way.
> Most of the guest teachers she has invited teach
> figures or concepts from an open embrace. Because
> everyone realizes that whatever you choose to do you
> should be able to do both well.
>
> When I started teaching there were very few people
> teaching figures that were really useful for crowded
> floors and there wasn't much emphasis on musicality.
> Things have really changed. I'd say it's the norm
> now.
>
>
> Non of the good dancers bump into me in the
> milongas.
> it doesn't matter what their personal style of dance
> is. Good dancers don't bump into people. Good
> dancers
> are musical too, whether they are leading ocho
> cortados or colgadas.
>
>
> www.robinthomastango.com
>
> protection around
>
>
Derik Rawson
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
https://www.rawsonweb.com
713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone
281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax
d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu
d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu
rawsonweb@yahoo.com
Europe/Asia
rawsonweb@compuserve.com
Paris, France
Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 11:48:46 -0600
From: "David Hodgson" <DHodgson@Tango777.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] To infer that I am against close embrace is
totallywrong. Stop this crap about close-embrace and open
Ok, Last note to Derik.
Derik, You know with the questions Trini asked you did not even come up with
another way to answer her. "Yo Chika I will not answer that in 20 words or
even 30, I can answer that in 50". Perhaps you may have answered it in 2
words". Perhaps you could have told her "No, I am not going to answer the
question". She may have accepted that or not.
Now you did it again with Robin and his bumping comment, even thought it was
in a comment in the email to you I read (and reread) it looks like a general
comment to me (one not directed at you). However you seem to have taken it
personally.
My intent is not to defend either Trini or Robin (I know they are perfectly
capable of taking care of themselves).
I have asked you 2 questions just in the short time I have been back on the
list, and you chose silence.
So with all of this, I will say that I have never see you dance so I really
can not honestly form an opinion. Nor have I seen Trini dance so I can not
comment about her style either. I have seen Michael F. and Robin, their
style is not the same as mine. I do know they are both very good leads and
well respected by my self and others. I have my own style which I have
developed over the years (I continue to develop and refine) which others may
or may not like (I am sure a few may find annoying) but it is one I have
worked my AS* off to earn and I get a lot of nice comments from a lot of
Follows and Leads but not everyone is going to like what I do.
So goes the dance.
So, I am curious Derik. Are you going to be dancing anywhere other than your
own Dojo. Say with in the next 6 months or so (not a set timeline). Perhaps
traveling to a different city, perhaps to a festival. I am really curious to
see what you do out there and how you lead, suspending all my opinions and
give you a chance to show what you got, because when it comes down to it,
the proof is in the step you take and how you lead the Follow (or how
someone Follows a Lead, giving equal time here).
No pissing matches, no bickering, no talk, just see a demonstration of what
you do.
Honestly the only thing I know of you is from this list, your comments and
other peoples responses. I am left with a less than favorable impression
(believe me I am being respectful here). However I am very capable of
putting this aside because you're on the other side of the email and it is
just words being converted into Binary and electronic signals going back and
forth.
You could be a total dwebe squirming to prop your self on a pedestal over
there.
Or you could be the Master of the Universe laughing at the antics of us mere
mortals.
I simply don't know, but I for one would be willing to find out.
Even if you choose to respond with silence or your usual "Variety is the
spice of life" you're still over there and I continue to dance.
My thoughts for the moment (because as some know, I can be full of it).
David~
(My Nickname is simply "Zorrito". One I earned, was given to me in BSAS and
has been confirmed by friends in other places in the world).
PS: Jeff; I was left with the same impression as your interpretation,
concerning your post about learning Latin. It is a good one.
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] To infer that I am against close embrace is
totallywrong. Stop this crap about close-embrace and open
Dear Robin:
I agree with everything you have said, but when I hear
Tine say, "We are a close embrace shop" and "I never
teach forward ochos". then I do not buy her openness
to all styles at all.
To make it very clear once again, I dance close
embrace 60 to 80 percent of the time, BUT NOT APALIDO
(which is finally being seen as not very practical)
AND NOT ALL THE TIME! To infer that I am against
close embrace is totally wrong. To infer that I bump
into people all the time is also totally wrong.
I am for all styles, and for musicality (which is why
I prefer dancing with skilled musicians) and for great
navigation even in impossible conditions in an
unregulated public space. I do not require a perfect
wooden dance floor, predictable music, and a traffic
cop to be able to dance tango.
As for "the friends', they sound more like a tango
mafia, which is telling everyone here on this list how
to behave and dance. Trini says, "my tango
group"...translation..., "my people", and we all know
what that means amongst the "wise guys", don't we. It
is a term that is used in fact my the mafia to
indicate "their gang".
I did not respond to Trini, because she ordered me to
respond to her and she told me how to answer...lol. I
do not do that. I have responded to her many times in
the past, but I certainly do not work for her. She
does not direct me or my tango. I am not in her gang.
Bottom line:
Let us truly open up tango to all styles and dance
them all, and let us become real friends. I dance all
styles and would encourage others to do the same.
PS- Andres Amarillo definitely dances all styles.
That is why like the way he dances.
Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.oom
--- robin thomas <niborsamoht@yahoo.com> wrote:
> You know from September last year until pretty
> recently I saw Andres and Meredith almost every
> week.
> We were invited to a lot of the same places to
> teach.
> I've known Meredith for maybe 4 or 5 years. I took
> classes with Andres in Bs.As..I think I'm regarded
> as
> a "close-embrace all the time" teacher.
>
> You know not once did we ever discuss whether
> someone
> should dance one way or another. It is simply a non
> issue. It's kind of a embarrassing for us to see
> people we know fighting about such non issues.
>
> Derik, I'm not sure if you realize Tine invited
> Andres
> and Meredith to teach at Yale and that she took
> classes wih them in Bs.As. where she has been many
> many times, and that she's completely fluent in
> Spanish as well as French, Flemish, German and
> English. I've spent a lot of time around her and
> she's
> never suggested that it's better to dance close or
> open. She enjoys dancing both ways herself. We've
> been
> teaching people to dance close at Yale because
> people
> seem to seem to dance something that is more
> recognizable as tango in its feeling quicker that
> way.
> Most of the guest teachers she has invited teach
> figures or concepts from an open embrace. Because
> everyone realizes that whatever you choose to do you
> should be able to do both well.
>
> When I started teaching there were very few people
> teaching figures that were really useful for crowded
> floors and there wasn't much emphasis on musicality.
> Things have really changed. I'd say it's the norm
> now.
>
>
> Non of the good dancers bump into me in the
> milongas.
> it doesn't matter what their personal style of dance
> is. Good dancers don't bump into people. Good
> dancers
> are musical too, whether they are leading ocho
> cortados or colgadas.
>
>
> www.robinthomastango.com
>
> protection around
>
>
Derik Rawson
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
https://www.rawsonweb.com
713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone
281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax
d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu
d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu
rawsonweb@yahoo.com
Europe/Asia
rawsonweb@compuserve.com
Paris, France
Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 16:54:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Yale Tango Club <yaletangoclub@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] To infer that I am against close embrace is
totally wrong. Stop this crap about close-embrace and open
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Hey all
Thank you very much, Robin. It is true that I took classes with Andres in BA last year and I invited Andres and Meredith to teach here at Yale. It is also true that I do multi-embrace.
I want everybody to know that Andres is a nice fun professional guy with a good attitude who doesn't take himself too seriously, and I do hope nobody on this list will think any less of him as a result of Derik dragging his good name into his belligerent agenda. Anybody wishing to organize Andres and Meredith can deal with Meredith directly, she does a great job with the scheduling and PR.
Derik, this debate is much less about the actual opinion than about one's right TO an opinion and the freedom to not be misquoted, twisted or insulted about it.
Thank you all
Tine
Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Robin:
I agree with everything you have said, but when I hear
Tine say, "We are a close embrace shop" and "I never
teach forward ochos". then I do not buy her openness
to all styles at all.
To make it very clear once again, I dance close
embrace 60 to 80 percent of the time, BUT NOT APALIDO
(which is finally being seen as not very practical)
AND NOT ALL THE TIME! To infer that I am against
close embrace is totally wrong. To infer that I bump
into people all the time is also totally wrong.
I am for all styles, and for musicality (which is why
I prefer dancing with skilled musicians) and for great
navigation even in impossible conditions in an
unregulated public space. I do not require a perfect
wooden dance floor, predictable music, and a traffic
cop to be able to dance tango.
As for "the friends', they sound more like a tango
mafia, which is telling everyone here on this list how
to behave and dance. Trini says, "my tango
group"...translation..., "my people", and we all know
what that means amongst the "wise guys", don't we. It
is a term that is used in fact my the mafia to
indicate "their gang".
I did not respond to Trini, because she ordered me to
respond to her and she told me how to answer...lol. I
do not do that. I have responded to her many times in
the past, but I certainly do not work for her. She
does not direct me or my tango. I am not in her gang.
Bottom line:
Let us truly open up tango to all styles and dance
them all, and let us become real friends. I dance all
styles and would encourage others to do the same.
PS- Andres Amarillo definitely dances all styles.
That is why like the way he dances.
Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.oom
--- robin thomas wrote:
> You know from September last year until pretty
> recently I saw Andres and Meredith almost every
> week.
> We were invited to a lot of the same places to
> teach.
> I've known Meredith for maybe 4 or 5 years. I took
> classes with Andres in Bs.As..I think I'm regarded
> as
> a "close-embrace all the time" teacher.
>
> You know not once did we ever discuss whether
> someone
> should dance one way or another. It is simply a non
> issue. It's kind of a embarrassing for us to see
> people we know fighting about such non issues.
>
> Derik, I'm not sure if you realize Tine invited
> Andres
> and Meredith to teach at Yale and that she took
> classes wih them in Bs.As. where she has been many
> many times, and that she's completely fluent in
> Spanish as well as French, Flemish, German and
> English. I've spent a lot of time around her and
> she's
> never suggested that it's better to dance close or
> open. She enjoys dancing both ways herself. We've
> been
> teaching people to dance close at Yale because
> people
> seem to seem to dance something that is more
> recognizable as tango in its feeling quicker that
> way.
> Most of the guest teachers she has invited teach
> figures or concepts from an open embrace. Because
> everyone realizes that whatever you choose to do you
> should be able to do both well.
>
> When I started teaching there were very few people
> teaching figures that were really useful for crowded
> floors and there wasn't much emphasis on musicality.
> Things have really changed. I'd say it's the norm
> now.
>
>
> Non of the good dancers bump into me in the
> milongas.
> it doesn't matter what their personal style of dance
> is. Good dancers don't bump into people. Good
> dancers
> are musical too, whether they are leading ocho
> cortados or colgadas.
>
>
> www.robinthomastango.com
>
> protection around
>
>
Derik Rawson
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
https://www.rawsonweb.com
713-522-0888 USA Landline Direct to Portable Cell Phone
281-754-4315 USA Landline Voice/Fax
d.rawson@cal.berkeley.edu
d.rawson@haas.alum.berkeley.edu
rawsonweb@yahoo.com
Europe/Asia
rawsonweb@compuserve.com
Paris, France
************************
www.yaletangoclub.org
