4237  Is it important to know Spanish if you dance tango?

Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 13:02:07 -0300
From: "Janis Kenyon" <jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Subject: [Tango-L] Is it important to know Spanish if you dance tango?
To: "Tango-L" <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>

A recent article in La Nacion reported that Spanish classes are booming in
the United States, where there is a growing interest to learn the language.
The Mexican-American Cultural Institute says that the demand for Spanish
courses has doubled in the past decade. The reasons: the constant growth of
the hispanic population that brings with it the demand for goods, services,
shows and as much information in Spanish as in English, and the increasing
interest in travel and business in other countries.

The 2000 census determined that 12.5% of the population in the U.S. is
hispanic. Only 9.3% of Americans speak two languages compared with 52.7%
Europeans. This year the U.S. government proposed investing more than 100
million dollars in programs to expand foreign language programs in public
schools.
____________

I studied Spanish in high school, but had no daily practice with the
language until I moved to Buenos Aires. It took me about three years to
feel comfortable with everyday conversation, the most difficult part of a
second language. I don't speak it perfectly, but I can communicate with
others. I appreciate friends who correct me so I can improve.

I think of all the things I would be missing if I couldn't understand
Spanish--all those fascinating conversations with milongueros about their
lives, the beautifuly lyrics of tangos, and the rich history of tango and
the milongas.

Is it important to know Spanish if you dance tango? I believe so,
especially if you plan to visit Buenos Aires. If you don't know the
language, you miss the culture.

Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 16:20:52 +0000 (GMT)
From: Lucia <curvasreales@yahoo.com.ar>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Is it important to know Spanish if you dance
tango?
To: Janis Kenyon <jantango@feedback.net.ar>, Tango-L <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>

Janis,

We do not really listen to the lyrics when we dance, we know and cherish them. The sung tangos are so much more mellow, have an atmosphere of their own - it is altogeteher another experience to dance them.

Lucia

Janis Kenyon <jantango@feedback.net.ar> escribi?: A recent article in La Nacion reported that Spanish classes are booming in
the United States, where there is a growing interest to learn the language.
The Mexican-American Cultural Institute says that the demand for Spanish
courses has doubled in the past decade. The reasons: the constant growth of
the hispanic population that brings with it the demand for goods, services,
shows and as much information in Spanish as in English, and the increasing
interest in travel and business in other countries.

The 2000 census determined that 12.5% of the population in the U.S. is
hispanic. Only 9.3% of Americans speak two languages compared with 52.7%
Europeans. This year the U.S. government proposed investing more than 100
million dollars in programs to expand foreign language programs in public
schools.
____________

I studied Spanish in high school, but had no daily practice with the
language until I moved to Buenos Aires. It took me about three years to
feel comfortable with everyday conversation, the most difficult part of a
second language. I don't speak it perfectly, but I can communicate with
others. I appreciate friends who correct me so I can improve.

I think of all the things I would be missing if I couldn't understand
Spanish--all those fascinating conversations with milongueros about their
lives, the beautifuly lyrics of tangos, and the rich history of tango and
the milongas.

Is it important to know Spanish if you dance tango? I believe so,
especially if you plan to visit Buenos Aires. If you don't know the
language, you miss the culture.




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Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 16:01:10 -0500
From: "Ron Weigel" <tango.society@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Is it important to know Spanish if you dance
tango?
To: "Janis Kenyon" <jantango@feedback.net.ar>
Cc: Tango-L <tango-l@mit.edu>
<cff24c340605051401v5e8f773etd599f33c15269bc2@mail.gmail.com>

On 5/5/06, Janis Kenyon <jantango@feedback.net.ar> wrote:

> I think of all the things I would be missing if I couldn't understand
> Spanish--all those fascinating conversations with milongueros about their
> lives, the beautifuly lyrics of tangos, and the rich history of tango and
> the milongas.
>
> Is it important to know Spanish if you dance tango? I believe so,
> especially if you plan to visit Buenos Aires. If you don't know the
> language, you miss the culture.

Whereas it is not essential to know Spanish to dance tango, I believe
one's understanding of tango increases substantially with an
understanding of Spanish.

My knowledge of Spanish is far from perfect, deficent in fact
according to my own standards. I can have a private lesson with an
Argentine instructor who does not speak English and understand and
communicate what is important (probably missing important nuances),
but listening to tango lyrics is usually challenging. This issue came
up on another list regarding selecting 'romantic' tangos as a DJ. What
sounds 'romantic' may actually be about a horse race, or drinking, or
homesickness, and not about romantic love. I've been thinking that
perhaps the lyrics of tangos in a tanda should, at the very least, not
be discordant, so I've been paying more attention to them but, alas,
there is a limit if you are not a native speaker.

I suspect knowing Lunfardo in addition to knowing Spanish would help.

Visiting Buenos Aires and seeing tango within the culture of its
origin also helps one understand tango. To do this effectively, one
needs to know Spanish. There's no point to going to BA to be led
around by a tour guide taking you to tourist traps and classes for
foreignors. You have to go to the milongas where the porten~os dance
and interact with them. Otherwise, you're not going to understand how
porten~os feel about tango (whether they are milongueros or cab
drivers - avoiding the term 'taxi driver' here, or the shop
salespeople). I get a free ride because my wife is a native speaker of
Spanish and I eavesdrop on her conversations.

So, I think every serious tanguero should get as fluent as possible in
Spanish, go to Buenos Aires, attend the milongas where locals go, and
talk to the people.

Even then, we will still be as blind men describing the elephant, but
at least we've touched the creature.

Ron

Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 14:56:09 -0700
From: Duende de Tango <duendedetango@mac.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Is it important to know Spanish if you dance
tango?
To: tango-l@mit.edu

Most of the students of Tango here that I know,
all seem to know Spanish! It may have helped
bring them into the studio in the first place.

I have lived in a Spanish speaking country and
speak, read and write, but my conversational
skills are from equal to my English.

Since a lot of Tango vocabulary is in Spanish, it
is helpful for me to understand - but certainly
not necessary to be somewhat conversant in
Spanish.

I actually studied the Tango in a Spanish
speaking country - totally taught in Spanish.
Good practice for both tango and Spanish.

For me, knowing foreign languages helps open the
door to understanding the culture. But after
being around people of so many cultures for so
many years, there is always a difference in how
one perceives things around them.

Knowing Spanish for Argentina is great, and may
help open the door, but it is still far from
really embracing the cultural values. That is the
toughest part.

>On 5/5/06, Janis Kenyon <jantango@feedback.net.ar> wrote:
>
>> I think of all the things I would be missing if I couldn't understand
>> Spanish--all those fascinating conversations with milongueros about their
>> lives, the beautifuly lyrics of tangos, and the rich history of tango and
>> the milongas.
>>
>> Is it important to know Spanish if you dance tango? I believe so,
>> especially if you plan to visit Buenos Aires. If you don't know the
>> language, you miss the culture.
>
>Whereas it is not essential to know Spanish to dance tango, I believe
>one's understanding of tango increases substantially with an
>understanding of Spanish.
>
>My knowledge of Spanish is far from perfect, deficent in fact
>according to my own standards. I can have a private lesson with an
>Argentine instructor who does not speak English and understand and
>communicate what is important (probably missing important nuances),
>but listening to tango lyrics is usually challenging. This issue came
>up on another list regarding selecting 'romantic' tangos as a DJ. What
>sounds 'romantic' may actually be about a horse race, or drinking, or
>homesickness, and not about romantic love. I've been thinking that
>perhaps the lyrics of tangos in a tanda should, at the very least, not
>be discordant, so I've been paying more attention to them but, alas,
>there is a limit if you are not a native speaker.
>
>I suspect knowing Lunfardo in addition to knowing Spanish would help.
>
>Visiting Buenos Aires and seeing tango within the culture of its
>origin also helps one understand tango. To do this effectively, one
>needs to know Spanish. There's no point to going to BA to be led
>around by a tour guide taking you to tourist traps and classes for
>foreignors. You have to go to the milongas where the porten~os dance
>and interact with them. Otherwise, you're not going to understand how
>porten~os feel about tango (whether they are milongueros or cab
>drivers - avoiding the term 'taxi driver' here, or the shop
>salespeople). I get a free ride because my wife is a native speaker of
>Spanish and I eavesdrop on her conversations.
>
>So, I think every serious tanguero should get as fluent as possible in
>Spanish, go to Buenos Aires, attend the milongas where locals go, and
>talk to the people.
>
>Even then, we will still be as blind men describing the elephant, but
>at least we've touched the creature.
>
>Ron
>

--
Costa rica

?2004, por Duende de Tango, viviendo en el para?so,
todos de los derechos reservados del mundo

Rich coast,
of flowers and dreams,
dancing nights,
and candle lights.
as the mist passes
into the night ...

I miss her breath
of life and ...

Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 17:52:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: Rick Jones <rwjones52@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Is it important to know Spanish if you dance
tango?
To: Tango-L <TANGO-L@MIT.EDU>

I tend to agree with Janis that knowing Spanish can enhance your tango experience while in Buenos Aires. My reasons for saying that are different from hers, though.

In the Buenos Aires milongas, there is a (relatively) large pause between dances during a tanda. The men and the women tend to chat for the first stanza (give or take a few measures) of each song. If you can't speak some minimal Spanish, or your partner can't speak some minimal English (and hey, you're in their country, right, so who's the onus on?), you can find yourself feeling kind of awkward out there.

It's nice to be able to at least say what your name is, where you're from, and that you find your partner to be an absolutely divine dancer.

Rick Jones
Washington DC

Janis Kenyon <jantango@feedback.net.ar> wrote: A recent article in La Nacion reported that Spanish classes are booming in
the United States, where there is a growing interest to learn the language.
The Mexican-American Cultural Institute says that the demand for Spanish
courses has doubled in the past decade. The reasons: the constant growth of
the hispanic population that brings with it the demand for goods, services,
shows and as much information in Spanish as in English, and the increasing
interest in travel and business in other countries.

The 2000 census determined that 12.5% of the population in the U.S. is
hispanic. Only 9.3% of Americans speak two languages compared with 52.7%
Europeans. This year the U.S. government proposed investing more than 100
million dollars in programs to expand foreign language programs in public
schools.
____________

I studied Spanish in high school, but had no daily practice with the
language until I moved to Buenos Aires. It took me about three years to
feel comfortable with everyday conversation, the most difficult part of a
second language. I don't speak it perfectly, but I can communicate with
others. I appreciate friends who correct me so I can improve.

I think of all the things I would be missing if I couldn't understand
Spanish--all those fascinating conversations with milongueros about their
lives, the beautifuly lyrics of tangos, and the rich history of tango and
the milongas.

Is it important to know Spanish if you dance tango? I believe so,
especially if you plan to visit Buenos Aires. If you don't know the
language, you miss the culture.