4999 Interview with Gustavo Naveira, Part 1
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 10:53 +0100 (BST)
From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Interview with Gustavo Naveira, Part 1
Cc: tl2@chrisjj.com
> is it necessary for you to defame Gustavo Naveira?
Evidently less so than for you to deify him, Manuel...
Chris
-------- Original Message --------
*Subject:* Re: [Tango-L] Interview with Gustavo Naveira, Part 1
*From:* "WHITE 95 R" <white95r@hotmail.com>
*Date:* Mon, 25 Jun 2007 11:51:04 -0400
>From: "Chris, UK" <tl2@chrisjj.com>
>And so Tango Scientology was born - sigh! ;)
>
>Here's something real:
>
> Angel D?Agostino and Angel Vargas: Tres Esquinas
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2203qy8wwE (video, 3m09s)
Hi Chris,
The smiley after your comment does not take the edge out of a cheap shot. I
have no problems with the video you send, but is it necessary for you to
defame Gustavo Naveira? Way back in the last century, I had watched old
videos of Gustavo with Olga and was amazed at his great and powerful
dancing. It was a great desire of mine to see him in person and learn from
him.
We had the great pleasure to meet Gustavo at the very first CITA festival
and I was not disappointed. He is a great master. His dancing and teaching
are worth all the effort and expense to obtain them. I started back then to
get Gustavo to come to the USA and teach. We saw him subsequently at other
CITA events and them we traveled to Europe to take lesson from him and ask
him to travel to the USA.
Finally, we were lucky to host Gustavo and Giselle Anne in their first
visit
to the USA and they were phenomenal as we expected. Now, Brian Dunn is
posting some very interesting and relevant topics of tango and Gustavo
Naveira's part in it. Gustavo and Giselle Anne are once again coming to the
USA after a several year hiatus. Gustavo will be in California, Colorado
and
Atlanta. We at Tango Rio have once again the privilege to host G&G in
Atlanta.
Gustavo Naveira is not a purveyor of Tango Scientology. Gustavo and Giselle
have the respect and admiration of many of the most well know Argentine
tango masters (many took their first lessons with him). Gustavo is a true
master teacher and innovator. His credentials are impeccable. Please do not
malign him.
Thanks,
Manuel
BTW, for details of G&G visit to Atlanta, visit our website
www.tango-rio.com
Picture this ? share your photos and you could win big!
https://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 12:19:48 -0400
From: Keith <keith@tangohk.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Interview with Gustavo Naveira, Part 1
Chris,
You are an absolute nobody and have not even earned the right to comment on a great dancer
and teacher such as Gustavo Naveira, who has been a major influence on Tango and on thousands
of Tango dancers around the world. Chris, just who the hell do you think you are? Well I'll tell you -
you're a nobody and you always will be. We can't all be major players in the world of Tango, but at
least learn to respect those who are. If you love and respect Tango, how can you not admire and
respect a maestro such as Gustavo Naveira? There's only one answer - you know nothing about
Tango, which is something I've long suspected from your petty and malicious postings.
Apologies to the List, if you consider this to be a flame, but enough is enough. Which Argentine
maestro is next on some nobody's hit-list?
Keith, HK
On Tue Jun 26 17:53 , "Chris, UK" sent:
>> is it necessary for you to defame Gustavo Naveira?
>
>Evidently less so than for you to deify him, Manuel...
>
>Chris
>
>-------- Original Message --------
>
>
>>From: "Chris, UK" tl2@chrisjj.com>
>
>
>>And so Tango Scientology was born - sigh! ;)
>>
>>Here's something real:
>>
>> Angel D?Agostino and Angel Vargas: Tres Esquinas
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch\?v=T2203qy8wwE (video, 3m09s)
>
>Hi Chris,
>
>The smiley after your comment does not take the edge out of a cheap shot. I
>have no problems with the video you send, but is it necessary for you to
>defame Gustavo Naveira? Way back in the last century, I had watched old
>videos of Gustavo with Olga and was amazed at his great and powerful
>dancing. It was a great desire of mine to see him in person and learn from
>him.
>
>We had the great pleasure to meet Gustavo at the very first CITA festival
>and I was not disappointed. He is a great master. His dancing and teaching
>are worth all the effort and expense to obtain them. I started back then to
>get Gustavo to come to the USA and teach. We saw him subsequently at other
>CITA events and them we traveled to Europe to take lesson from him and ask
>him to travel to the USA.
>
>Finally, we were lucky to host Gustavo and Giselle Anne in their first
>visit
>to the USA and they were phenomenal as we expected. Now, Brian Dunn is
>posting some very interesting and relevant topics of tango and Gustavo
>Naveira's part in it. Gustavo and Giselle Anne are once again coming to the
>USA after a several year hiatus. Gustavo will be in California, Colorado
>and
>Atlanta. We at Tango Rio have once again the privilege to host G&G in
>Atlanta.
>
>Gustavo Naveira is not a purveyor of Tango Scientology. Gustavo and Giselle
>have the respect and admiration of many of the most well know Argentine
>tango masters (many took their first lessons with him). Gustavo is a true
>master teacher and innovator. His credentials are impeccable. Please do not
>malign him.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Manuel
>
>BTW, for details of G&G visit to Atlanta, visit our website
>www.tango-rio.com
>
>Picture this ? share your photos and you could win big!
>https://www.GETREALPhotoContest.com\?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
>
>
>
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:51:38 +0000 (GMT)
From: Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~ <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Interview with Gustavo Naveira, Part 1
Cc: Dani Iannarelli <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu>
Club ~Tango*La Dolce Vita~
~ Dani Iannarelli ~
Dear Tangueros,
Well, well, well...
Things are really hotting up on the interview issue. Love it! >:-)))))
However, I have to come to the defence of two people here:
i. Gustavo
ii. Chris UK
iii. Brian Dunn & Deb Sclar, of 'Dance of the Heart'
Let's start with Gustavo...
Gustavo is BRILLIANT; I am one of his bobbysoxers, and proud of it! He is THE man in tango. Innovator, genius, and everything else in the same positive dimension. I am on friendly terms with Gustavo and Giselle-Anne and have participated now in three of his fantastic week-long seminarios and am attending the forthcoming (imminent) Roma Tangocamp in which he will be teaching. I can safely say that he knows his stuff, can dance his stuff, is genuinely interested in imparting his information about his stuff, is genuinely interested in his students' improvement and in the promotion and enjoyment of tango... [and has a gorgeous wife and dance/teaching partner in Giselle-Anne - someone kill him for me! >:-))) ...who, incidentally, in her own right is also a wonderful and brilliant tango maestra].
As for Chris UK...
Although I'm afraid I have to say that good ol' Chris UK (whom I have met and actually like) is being a bit of an arsehole here on this issue... he's okay, I suppose. I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure he (like me, often) is being a bit of a 'Devil's Advocate' and instigator of controversy... just for the hell of it. Again, I could be wrong but I'm sure he doesn't mean what he said. Trouble is that often on this List, people get too far up their own arses about things and I'm convinced he is just (again, like me) retaliating against the 'twee' and 'nerdy' sucking-up element who too frequently refer to tango as some sort of new-age deity that should never be criticised for fear of the wrath of the tango-nerd fraternity who permeate this List. Please don't think, though, that I am criticising the poster/moderator (Brian Dunn & Deb Sclar, of 'Dance of the Heart') of the Gustavo Interview... I certainly am not.
>:-))))))))))
Now for Brian Dunn & Deb Sclar, of 'Dance of the Heart'...
You've done a fantastic job with this interview...! Great stuff! I look forward to the next part(s).
Very best wishes
Dani ~
`El Zorro de Tango' >:-)))))
~Tango*La Dolce Vita~
Email: dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu
Website: https://www.tango-la-dolce-vita.eu
Online photogalleries: https://www.flickr.com/photos/club_tango-la-dolce-vita/
https://www.flickr.com/people/club_tango-la-dolce-vita/
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:56:42 -0400
From: "WHITE 95 R" <white95r@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Interview with Gustavo Naveira, Part 1
Hi Danni,
I understand your point of view. I hope you don't lump me in the tango-nerd
category as I'm fairly iconoclastic myself ;-))) The deal is this, I don't
belive in deifying anyone in tango or in any oither facet of life. Actually,
I rather skeptical abput all the waxing lirycal about the innefabilty of the
tango moment, etc. I actually consider many of the current icons of tango
(in the US, Argentina and the world) to be fairly overrated and IMHO, some
are outright frauds. However, I'm not disposed to attack, denean or
otherwise defame any of these folks or their teachings and doctrines.
Perhaps Chris is merely stirring up controversy or trying to inject humor in
the discussion. The problem is that things written in these forums can
sometimes become de facto "truths". I just wanted to set the record
straight.
Cheers,
Manuel
visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com
>From: Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~ <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu>
>CC: Dani Iannarelli <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu>
>Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Interview with Gustavo Naveira, Part 1
>Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:51:38 +0000 (GMT)
>
>Club ~Tango*La Dolce Vita~
>~ Dani Iannarelli ~
>
>Dear Tangueros,
>
>Well, well, well...
>
>Things are really hotting up on the interview issue. Love it! >:-)))))
>However, I have to come to the defence of two people here:
>
>i. Gustavo
>ii. Chris UK
>iii. Brian Dunn & Deb Sclar, of 'Dance of the Heart'
>
>
>Let's start with Gustavo...
>Gustavo is BRILLIANT; I am one of his bobbysoxers, and proud of it! He is
>THE man in tango. Innovator, genius, and everything else in the same
>positive dimension. I am on friendly terms with Gustavo and Giselle-Anne
>and have participated now in three of his fantastic week-long seminarios
>and am attending the forthcoming (imminent) Roma Tangocamp in which he will
>be teaching. I can safely say that he knows his stuff, can dance his stuff,
>is genuinely interested in imparting his information about his stuff, is
>genuinely interested in his students' improvement and in the promotion and
>enjoyment of tango... [and has a gorgeous wife and dance/teaching partner
>in Giselle-Anne - someone kill him for me! >:-))) ...who, incidentally, in
>her own right is also a wonderful and brilliant tango maestra].
>
>As for Chris UK...
>Although I'm afraid I have to say that good ol' Chris UK (whom I have met
>and actually like) is being a bit of an arsehole here on this issue... he's
>okay, I suppose. I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure he (like me, often)
>is being a bit of a 'Devil's Advocate' and instigator of controversy...
>just for the hell of it. Again, I could be wrong but I'm sure he doesn't
>mean what he said. Trouble is that often on this List, people get too far
>up their own arses about things and I'm convinced he is just (again, like
>me) retaliating against the 'twee' and 'nerdy' sucking-up element who too
>frequently refer to tango as some sort of new-age deity that should never
>be criticised for fear of the wrath of the tango-nerd fraternity who
>permeate this List. Please don't think, though, that I am criticising the
>poster/moderator (Brian Dunn & Deb Sclar, of 'Dance of the Heart') of the
>Gustavo Interview... I certainly am not.
>
> >:-))))))))))
>
>Now for Brian Dunn & Deb Sclar, of 'Dance of the Heart'...
>You've done a fantastic job with this interview...! Great stuff! I look
>forward to the next part(s).
>
>Very best wishes
>Dani ~
>`El Zorro de Tango' >:-)))))
>
>~Tango*La Dolce Vita~
>
>Email: dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu
>Website: https://www.tango-la-dolce-vita.eu
>Online photogalleries:
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/club_tango-la-dolce-vita/
>https://www.flickr.com/people/club_tango-la-dolce-vita/
Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps.
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Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 21:16:30 +0000 (GMT)
From: Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~ <dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Interview with Gustavo Naveira, Part 1
Club ~Tango*La Dolce Vita~
~ Dani Iannarelli ~
Hi Manuel / Tangueros,
No, I don't class you as one of the tango 'nerds' ('anoraks' in equivalent UK parlance). In fact, I see you as my southern hemisphere "El Zorro de Tango" counterpart...! :-)))))
>The deal is this, I don't believe in deifying anyone in tango or in any other facet of life
Although I entirely agree with you, I have to say the Gustavo is, *for me*, one of the few exceptions, and it takes a great 'icon' for me to make any sort of exception!
Having thus deified him (tango-wise), I still think "The Tango Lesson" was an utterly crap 'film'...! >:-)))))
Very best wishes
Dani ~
`El Zorro de Tango' >:-)))))
~Tango*La Dolce Vita~
Email: dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu
Website: https://www.tango-la-dolce-vita.eu
Online photogalleries: https://www.flickr.com/photos/club_tango-la-dolce-vita/
https://www.flickr.com/people/club_tango-la-dolce-vita/
----- Original Message ----
From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 26 June, 2007 9:56:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Interview with Gustavo Naveira, Part 1
Hi Danni,
I understand your point of view. I hope you don't lump me in the tango-nerd
category as I'm fairly iconoclastic myself ;-))) The deal is this, I don't
belive in deifying anyone in tango or in any oither facet of life. Actually,
I rather skeptical abput all the waxing lirycal about the innefabilty of the
tango moment, etc. I actually consider many of the current icons of tango
(in the US, Argentina and the world) to be fairly overrated and IMHO, some
are outright frauds. However, I'm not disposed to attack, denean or
otherwise defame any of these folks or their teachings and doctrines.
Perhaps Chris is merely stirring up controversy or trying to inject humor in
the discussion. The problem is that things written in these forums can
sometimes become de facto "truths". I just wanted to set the record
straight.
Cheers,
Manuel
visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:55:12 -0400
From: "Jake Spatz (TangoDC.com)" <spatz@tangoDC.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Interview with Gustavo Naveira, Part 1
To: tango-L@mit.edu
List,
Looks like Dani and I still won't get to fight (yet again), as I second
his opinion of Chris's posts here. And I believe I can help unpack the
critical perspective from which Chris writes-- and he can certainly
correct me if I'm mistaken about anything.
What Chris (appears to have) criticized isn't Gustavo's dancing, but
rather his analytical approach-- or rather, others' ubiquitous reliance
on it. That's certainly open to criticism, and should be. I've
criticized the particular content of his analysis myself (insofar as I
know what that content is: perhaps the Diet version in circulation is
what I have a problem with). But others criticize it for the simple
reason that it isn't everything or even the key thing about the dance,
since it maps movement and therefore moves-- and doing moves, of course,
is not the same thing as dancing.
Now, one would hardly expect an analysis of movement to tell you
everything about good dancing. I think it's only the plethora of (bad)
move-centric performers, and those who emulate them, who are responsible
for promoting this stuff above its proper station in some people's eyes.
But nonetheless it does get elevated; and so criticism of it can be not
only deserved, but quite healthy, to keep things in perspective.
In any case, I don't believe Chris is guilty of judging Gustavo by his
fans, which is the only real crime possible by now, for a critic. He's
in fact criticizing the fans, if you bother to read with pre-Info Age
care. For my part, I value Chris's noncompliance-with-herd-opinion very
highly. And I also think Gustavo & Giselle are brilliant dancers-- and
that their "moves" are the least interesting part of it.
Jake
DC
Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~ wrote:
> Club ~Tango*La Dolce Vita~
> ~ Dani Iannarelli ~
>
> Hi Manuel / Tangueros,
>
> No, I don't class you as one of the tango 'nerds' ('anoraks' in equivalent UK parlance). In fact, I see you as my southern hemisphere "El Zorro de Tango" counterpart...! :-)))))
>
>
>> The deal is this, I don't believe in deifying anyone in tango or in any other facet of life
>>
>
> Although I entirely agree with you, I have to say the Gustavo is, *for me*, one of the few exceptions, and it takes a great 'icon' for me to make any sort of exception!
>
> Having thus deified him (tango-wise), I still think "The Tango Lesson" was an utterly crap 'film'...! >:-)))))
>
> Very best wishes
> Dani ~
> `El Zorro de Tango' >:-)))))
>
> ~Tango*La Dolce Vita~
>
> Email: dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu
> Website: https://www.tango-la-dolce-vita.eu
> Online photogalleries: https://www.flickr.com/photos/club_tango-la-dolce-vita/
> https://www.flickr.com/people/club_tango-la-dolce-vita/
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@hotmail.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, 26 June, 2007 9:56:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Interview with Gustavo Naveira, Part 1
>
>
> Hi Danni,
>
> I understand your point of view. I hope you don't lump me in the tango-nerd
> category as I'm fairly iconoclastic myself ;-))) The deal is this, I don't
> belive in deifying anyone in tango or in any oither facet of life. Actually,
> I rather skeptical abput all the waxing lirycal about the innefabilty of the
> tango moment, etc. I actually consider many of the current icons of tango
> (in the US, Argentina and the world) to be fairly overrated and IMHO, some
> are outright frauds. However, I'm not disposed to attack, denean or
> otherwise defame any of these folks or their teachings and doctrines.
> Perhaps Chris is merely stirring up controversy or trying to inject humor in
> the discussion. The problem is that things written in these forums can
> sometimes become de facto "truths". I just wanted to set the record
> straight.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Manuel
>
> visit our webpage
> www.tango-rio.com
>
>
>
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 04:20:48 -0500
From: ceverett@ceverett.com
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Interview with Gustavo Naveira, Part 1
To: "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
I have to agree that Gustavo & Giselle-Anne aren't one the best couples
working together right now, if not one of the all time best couples.
I have only indirect experiences with their teaching:
1. A couple of intermediate students I know took one of their workshops
in BA, and got worse, not better.
2. Many that I've talked to (including Argentines that were in his
circle during the time he, Fabian Salas and Chicho were working
together), tell me that he often (or maybe even usually) teaches to the
most advanced people in the classes, which means the material can be far
outside the performance envelope of many attendees. Certainly what the
couple above showed of the material they were working on in those
classes, looked like it was way over their heads.
It seems to me that item 1 above was a direct consequence of item 2.
Modern educational theory stresses that learning at the edge of one's
capabilities produces the greatest growth. If you can't do back ochos
without falling over, think about what adding boleos to the mix will do
to your dance.
That being said, dancers with a certain degree of talent, technical
ability and body control might have an excellent experience with
Gustavo, if only to to put their fundamentals on the forge. In other
words, it will make you really confident in your dance, if it doesn't
break you. I personally believe that's a valuable service.
Also, if people want to put themselves in a meat grinder, it's not
Gustavo's job to tell them, "No". After all, he's just a tango teacher,
not a surgeon.
In any case, it seems that Minneapolis may be graced with their presence
in the next year, and I'm just as enthused as the next lemming, even if
my eyes are a bit more open as I walk over the cliff.
Christopher
On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:55:12 -0400, "Jake Spatz (TangoDC.com)"
<spatz@tangoDC.com> said:
> List,
>
> Looks like Dani and I still won't get to fight (yet again), as I second
> his opinion of Chris's posts here. And I believe I can help unpack the
> critical perspective from which Chris writes-- and he can certainly
> correct me if I'm mistaken about anything.
>
> What Chris (appears to have) criticized isn't Gustavo's dancing, but
> rather his analytical approach-- or rather, others' ubiquitous reliance
> on it. That's certainly open to criticism, and should be. I've
> criticized the particular content of his analysis myself (insofar as I
> know what that content is: perhaps the Diet version in circulation is
> what I have a problem with). But others criticize it for the simple
> reason that it isn't everything or even the key thing about the dance,
> since it maps movement and therefore moves-- and doing moves, of course,
> is not the same thing as dancing.
>
> Now, one would hardly expect an analysis of movement to tell you
> everything about good dancing. I think it's only the plethora of (bad)
> move-centric performers, and those who emulate them, who are responsible
> for promoting this stuff above its proper station in some people's eyes.
> But nonetheless it does get elevated; and so criticism of it can be not
> only deserved, but quite healthy, to keep things in perspective.
>
> In any case, I don't believe Chris is guilty of judging Gustavo by his
> fans, which is the only real crime possible by now, for a critic. He's
> in fact criticizing the fans, if you bother to read with pre-Info Age
> care. For my part, I value Chris's noncompliance-with-herd-opinion very
> highly. And I also think Gustavo & Giselle are brilliant dancers-- and
> that their "moves" are the least interesting part of it.
>
> Jake
> DC
>
>
>
> Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~ wrote:
> > Club ~Tango*La Dolce Vita~
> > ~ Dani Iannarelli ~
> >
> > Hi Manuel / Tangueros,
> >
> > No, I don't class you as one of the tango 'nerds' ('anoraks' in equivalent UK parlance). In fact, I see you as my southern hemisphere "El Zorro de Tango" counterpart...! :-)))))
> >
> >
> >> The deal is this, I don't believe in deifying anyone in tango or in any other facet of life
> >>
> >
> > Although I entirely agree with you, I have to say the Gustavo is, *for me*, one of the few exceptions, and it takes a great 'icon' for me to make any sort of exception!
> >
> > Having thus deified him (tango-wise), I still think "The Tango Lesson" was an utterly crap 'film'...! >:-)))))
> >
> > Very best wishes
> > Dani ~
> > `El Zorro de Tango' >:-)))))
> >
> > ~Tango*La Dolce Vita~
> >
> > Email: dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu
> > Website: https://www.tango-la-dolce-vita.eu
> > Online photogalleries: https://www.flickr.com/photos/club_tango-la-dolce-vita/
> > https://www.flickr.com/people/club_tango-la-dolce-vita/
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@hotmail.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, 26 June, 2007 9:56:42 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Interview with Gustavo Naveira, Part 1
> >
> >
> > Hi Danni,
> >
> > I understand your point of view. I hope you don't lump me in the tango-nerd
> > category as I'm fairly iconoclastic myself ;-))) The deal is this, I don't
> > belive in deifying anyone in tango or in any oither facet of life. Actually,
> > I rather skeptical abput all the waxing lirycal about the innefabilty of the
> > tango moment, etc. I actually consider many of the current icons of tango
> > (in the US, Argentina and the world) to be fairly overrated and IMHO, some
> > are outright frauds. However, I'm not disposed to attack, denean or
> > otherwise defame any of these folks or their teachings and doctrines.
> > Perhaps Chris is merely stirring up controversy or trying to inject humor in
> > the discussion. The problem is that things written in these forums can
> > sometimes become de facto "truths". I just wanted to set the record
> > straight.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Manuel
> >
> > visit our webpage
> > www.tango-rio.com
> >
> >
> >
Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:06:12 -0400
From: "WHITE 95 R" <white95r@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Interview with Gustavo Naveira, Part 1
To: ceverett@ceverett.com, tango-l@mit.edu
Talking about Gustavo's teachings and his teaching stryle ability, etc.
Based on some discussion of some unseen notes is not a fair way to criticize
him. Also, as Christopher narrates below, neither is it a good gauge in
judging G&G's teachings to use the experience of some students who were
clearly way over their heads in one of Gustavo's classes.
I have personally taken many classes with G&G. It is true that if you are
taking a class way over your level, it will likely frustrate and perhaps
make you somehow worse. But this will happen with practically any teacher
worth his or her salt. Sure there are teachers out there who are great at
making their students feel good. The problem is that they don't teach their
students to dance tango very well at all.
Gustavo & Giselle are very professional. Their attention to the students is
genuine and polite. G&G are also very nice, polite and dignified. I want
people to know that they are not haughty or that they will blow people out
of the water in their classes without paying any mind. The best way to judge
their teaching, their subject matter and everything else is by taking some
of their classes. It is the student's reponsability to take the classes at
their proper level, but once that's done the classes will be most helpful.
It's interesting to see that the criticism of Gustavo Naveira comes from
people who've not taken lessons from him. I'd respectfully suggest that
first one should take at least a few workshops or classes with a teacher
before passing judgement on them.
Cheers,
Manuel
visit our webpage
www.tango-rio.com
>From: ceverett@ceverett.com
>To: "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>
>Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Interview with Gustavo Naveira, Part 1
>Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2007 04:20:48 -0500
>
>I have to agree that Gustavo & Giselle-Anne aren't one the best couples
>working together right now, if not one of the all time best couples.
>
>I have only indirect experiences with their teaching:
>
>1. A couple of intermediate students I know took one of their workshops
>in BA, and got worse, not better.
>2. Many that I've talked to (including Argentines that were in his
>circle during the time he, Fabian Salas and Chicho were working
>together), tell me that he often (or maybe even usually) teaches to the
>most advanced people in the classes, which means the material can be far
>outside the performance envelope of many attendees. Certainly what the
>couple above showed of the material they were working on in those
>classes, looked like it was way over their heads.
>
>It seems to me that item 1 above was a direct consequence of item 2.
>Modern educational theory stresses that learning at the edge of one's
>capabilities produces the greatest growth. If you can't do back ochos
>without falling over, think about what adding boleos to the mix will do
>to your dance.
>
>That being said, dancers with a certain degree of talent, technical
>ability and body control might have an excellent experience with
>Gustavo, if only to to put their fundamentals on the forge. In other
>words, it will make you really confident in your dance, if it doesn't
>break you. I personally believe that's a valuable service.
>
>Also, if people want to put themselves in a meat grinder, it's not
>Gustavo's job to tell them, "No". After all, he's just a tango teacher,
>not a surgeon.
>
>In any case, it seems that Minneapolis may be graced with their presence
>in the next year, and I'm just as enthused as the next lemming, even if
>my eyes are a bit more open as I walk over the cliff.
>
>Christopher
>
>On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 19:55:12 -0400, "Jake Spatz (TangoDC.com)"
><spatz@tangoDC.com> said:
> > List,
> >
> > Looks like Dani and I still won't get to fight (yet again), as I second
> > his opinion of Chris's posts here. And I believe I can help unpack the
> > critical perspective from which Chris writes-- and he can certainly
> > correct me if I'm mistaken about anything.
> >
> > What Chris (appears to have) criticized isn't Gustavo's dancing, but
> > rather his analytical approach-- or rather, others' ubiquitous reliance
> > on it. That's certainly open to criticism, and should be. I've
> > criticized the particular content of his analysis myself (insofar as I
> > know what that content is: perhaps the Diet version in circulation is
> > what I have a problem with). But others criticize it for the simple
> > reason that it isn't everything or even the key thing about the dance,
> > since it maps movement and therefore moves-- and doing moves, of course,
> > is not the same thing as dancing.
> >
> > Now, one would hardly expect an analysis of movement to tell you
> > everything about good dancing. I think it's only the plethora of (bad)
> > move-centric performers, and those who emulate them, who are responsible
> > for promoting this stuff above its proper station in some people's eyes.
> > But nonetheless it does get elevated; and so criticism of it can be not
> > only deserved, but quite healthy, to keep things in perspective.
> >
> > In any case, I don't believe Chris is guilty of judging Gustavo by his
> > fans, which is the only real crime possible by now, for a critic. He's
> > in fact criticizing the fans, if you bother to read with pre-Info Age
> > care. For my part, I value Chris's noncompliance-with-herd-opinion very
> > highly. And I also think Gustavo & Giselle are brilliant dancers-- and
> > that their "moves" are the least interesting part of it.
> >
> > Jake
> > DC
> >
> >
> >
> > Club~Tango*La Dolce Vita~ wrote:
> > > Club ~Tango*La Dolce Vita~
> > > ~ Dani Iannarelli ~
> > >
> > > Hi Manuel / Tangueros,
> > >
> > > No, I don't class you as one of the tango 'nerds' ('anoraks' in
>equivalent UK parlance). In fact, I see you as my southern hemisphere "El
>Zorro de Tango" counterpart...! :-)))))
> > >
> > >
> > >> The deal is this, I don't believe in deifying anyone in tango or in
>any other facet of life
> > >>
> > >
> > > Although I entirely agree with you, I have to say the Gustavo is, *for
>me*, one of the few exceptions, and it takes a great 'icon' for me to make
>any sort of exception!
> > >
> > > Having thus deified him (tango-wise), I still think "The Tango Lesson"
>was an utterly crap 'film'...! >:-)))))
> > >
> > > Very best wishes
> > > Dani ~
> > > `El Zorro de Tango' >:-)))))
> > >
> > > ~Tango*La Dolce Vita~
> > >
> > > Email: dani@tango-la-dolce-vita.eu
> > > Website: https://www.tango-la-dolce-vita.eu
> > > Online photogalleries:
>https://www.flickr.com/photos/club_tango-la-dolce-vita/
> > > https://www.flickr.com/people/club_tango-la-dolce-vita/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: WHITE 95 R <white95r@hotmail.com>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, 26 June, 2007 9:56:42 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Tango-L] Interview with Gustavo Naveira, Part 1
> > >
> > >
> > > Hi Danni,
> > >
> > > I understand your point of view. I hope you don't lump me in the
>tango-nerd
> > > category as I'm fairly iconoclastic myself ;-))) The deal is this, I
>don't
> > > belive in deifying anyone in tango or in any oither facet of life.
>Actually,
> > > I rather skeptical abput all the waxing lirycal about the innefabilty
>of the
> > > tango moment, etc. I actually consider many of the current icons of
>tango
> > > (in the US, Argentina and the world) to be fairly overrated and IMHO,
>some
> > > are outright frauds. However, I'm not disposed to attack, denean or
> > > otherwise defame any of these folks or their teachings and doctrines.
> > > Perhaps Chris is merely stirring up controversy or trying to inject
>humor in
> > > the discussion. The problem is that things written in these forums
>can
> > > sometimes become de facto "truths". I just wanted to set the record
> > > straight.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Manuel
> > >
> > > visit our webpage
> > > www.tango-rio.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
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