3822 Invitations to the dance - Is it news that Tango is danced better by seasoned Tangueras!?
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:45:36 +0000
From: Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: Invitations to the dance - Is it news that Tango is danced better by seasoned Tangueras!?
--- Jennifer Rondeau <angelicatech@YAHOO.COM>
escribis:
> I'm not the only woman of a certain age I've
> observed
> treated in this manner
Jennifer,
You will find obtuse people - maybe a majority? - in
almost all fields of endeavour - why then not at the
milongas?
The following is from an interview with Sally Potter
about the Tango Lesson:
When I did the tests on myself first and looked at my
face on the screen for the first time I nearly fell
off the chair with shock, you know. I did not like
what I saw, and I talked with Robby Muller who did the
tests and he said: 'Look Sally, what were used to
seeing in the cinema is young women in their twenties,
preferably blonde, and we see that as normal. To see a
lived-in female face, a face with experience, a face
which cant really hide some of its sufferings and
what its been through is going to make some people
uncomfortable. But lets go with the flow of that,"
And beautifully Sally went, as do countless of
interesting real women, good Tangueras of a certain
age, with the many partners who are comfortable with
our faces and who delight dancing especially with us.
Lucia
--- Jennifer Rondeau <angelicatech@YAHOO.COM>
escribis:
> Gee, John, I'd sure like to dance in your world.
>
> But in mine, there are all too many instances of
> "gee,
> well, maybe later," or "i'm resting" -- only to
> watch
> said respondee march off with someone evidently more
> glamorous to be seen dancing with.
>
> This behavior, BTW, I've noted in dancers who seem
> quite delighted to dance with me elsewhere, where
> perhaps the glamor quotient isn't as high. Me, I
> now
> decline *their* invitations. I still try to do so
> more gracefully than they have tended to decline
> mine.
>
> I'm not the only woman of a certain age I've
> observed
> treated in this manner, either, including dancers
> who
> are far more advanced and skillful than I. I
> acknowledge that there are certainly other variables
> at work here, too, but age does seem to be one of
> them.
>
> Jennifer in Eugene
>
>
> --- John Ward <johnofbristol@TISCALI.CO.UK> wrote:
>
> > Trini asks:
> >
> > > Also, a question for the guys - How do you
> handle
> > > turning down an invitation to dance when
> verbally
> > > asked by a woman? Or do you?
> >
> > The simple answer is - we don't! We can't! It is
> > impossible even to consider
> > it. The universe would implode if one did.
> >
> > John Ward
> > Bristol, UK
> >
> >
>
> > Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to
> > Tango-A rather than to
> > Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To
> > subscribe to Tango-A,
> > send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to
> > LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Send "Where can I Tango in <city>?" requests to
> Tango-A rather than to
> Tango-L, since you can indicate the region. To
> subscribe to Tango-A,
> send "subscribe Tango-A Firstname Lastname" to
> LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU.
>
>
Correo Yahoo!
Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam !gratis!
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:55:50 +0200
From: Christian Lüthen <christian.luethen@GMX.NET>
Subject: Re: Invitations to the dance - Is it news that Tango is danced better by seasoned Tangueras!?
On 19 Sep 2005 at 20:45, Lucia wrote:
> And beautifully Sally went, as do countless of
> interesting real women, good Tangueras of a certain
> age, with the many partners who are comfortable with
> our faces and who delight dancing especially with us.
An interesting face is an honest face ...
... including honesty towards the own age and physical status.
Overdressed, over-maked-up or even over-lifted ...
... the total turn-down!
Unfortunately many women in Bs.As. do not know/respect this facts
... and elsewhere it's the same!
Be natural, girls!!!
Christian [just back from Bs.As. and more and more hating these
cabaceo/I-turn-you-down-if-you-do-not-dance-with-me-right-now/I-
only-dance-with-livelong-dance-experience - games ... there and
here, anywhere! I dance because I like to dance ... in Bs.As. perhaps
even more difficult than elsewhere...]
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 18:07:54 -0400
From: "Andrew L. Kaye" <ethnomuse@RCN.COM>
Subject: Re: Invitations to the dance - Is it news that Tango is danced better by seasoned Tangueras!?
Isn't the calculus for choosing / not choosing dance partners at
milongas...a complicated one? (I think someone wrote recently to this list
about how simple it was, and then went on for 50 paragraphs explaining why).
One has to first know oneself, and one's own realities (strengths and
limitations), in dancing ability, body type, preferred dance style, beauty,
age, mood that night, etc., in order to then match these against the
particular "scene" that one chooses to dance in, and then that mysterious
ingredient of how you "click" with other individual dancers, with their
individual qualities (dancing ability, body type, personality, etc.). There
is always an element of chance, and of risk, involved. Whatever your level,
age, experience, etc., it is possible to find dancers that you'll click
with. With others, you won't click, and there is no reason to be insulted
if you find they don't want to dance with you. They may never want to (so
be it). Each person should be free to choose with whom to dance, if they
can get that person to dance with them, and with whom not to dance, if they
are lucky enough to decide both sides of that formula. In Buenos Aires, if
you want to just dance without a lot of pressure, with some better and some
worse dancers, there are lots of places you can do just that. There are
other places where it will be a challenge. In some ways, tango is like
tennis. You can't just pick up anyone as a partner. People sort themselves
out. In tennis it is mainly by skill; in tango, it is more complicated than
just that. I personally much prefer the Buenos Aires (cabeceo) system,
where those who want to dance with you look at you, and those that don't
want to, don't; and vice versa. Whatever the style, egos are involved, as
are many different levels of expectation coming from many different
directions...it is complicated...and intriguing...which is why tango is
called tango.
ALK
> Cxxxxxxx [just back from Bs.As. and more and more hating these
> cabaceo/I-turn-you-down-if-you-do-not-dance-with-me-right-now/I-
> only-dance-with-livelong-dance-experience - games ... there and
> here, anywhere! I dance because I like to dance ... in Bs.As. perhaps
> even more difficult than elsewhere...]
Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 17:58:20 -0700
From: Derik Rawson <rawsonweb@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: Invitations to the dance - Is it news that Tango is danced better by seasoned Tangueras!?
Dear Lucia:
I have heard it said that women like men for what they
do and men like women for how they look.
Of course men only dance with beautiful women. The
question is then, "What makes a woman beautiful?" The
answer for me is "Her mind".
If men are entirely visual animals, as women know,
then it would make sense for an intelligent women to
create a visual which a man can never forget. I have
found that French women especially are good at this.
This is probably why Paris is one of the great centers
of the fashion industry. American women are learning
slowly about fashion as well, but I remember that when
I went to UC Berkeley, I sorely missed the world of
fashion, because it was almost non-existent at that
university. The women were smart but very non visual.
Hopefully things have improved there, but I doubt
it...lol
A young US American on the Paris Metro once said,
"What is it about French women?" The answer to him
was, "French women are just as beautiful as American
women, but French women know what to do with
it"....lol.
In France the above talent of French women is called,
the "Ugly French woman syndrome", by Frenchman. When
a French woman has a lot of character, style and
grace, like Sally Potter for instance, she is always
very beautiful, no matter what she looks like.
Frenchmen love their women for there sense of "self".
All French woman seem to have style, if nothing else,
and it works! This is also true for many other
cultures where fashion is really important, like
Argentia, for instance. There is a reason that BsAs
looks like Paris..
I personally think that men do not dance with women
for "what they actually see", they dance with women
for "what they think they see".. and this is
determined by the mind of a smart and intelligent
women, who knows how to deal with men. Women who
demand that men dance with them get zero response, but
women who use their brains get a lot of response.
Some women blossom when they dance, others do not.
This blossoming is the beauty that we men look for
when we choose a dance partner for tango. It has
nothing to do with physical beauty, and everything to
do with a woman's mind. All women are beautiful if
they apply themselves, All men are handsome if they
apply themselves. In the end, for all of us, it is
what do that makes the difference.... My opinion.
Derik
d.rawson@rawsonweb.com
--- Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR> wrote:
> --- Jennifer Rondeau <angelicatech@YAHOO.COM>
> escribis:
>
> > I'm not the only woman of a certain age I've
> > observed
> > treated in this manner
>
> Jennifer,
>
> You will find obtuse people - maybe a majority? - in
> almost all fields of endeavour - why then not at the
> milongas?
>
> The following is from an interview with Sally Potter
> about the Tango Lesson:
>
> When I did the tests on myself first and looked at
> my
> face on the screen for the first time I nearly fell
> off the chair with shock, you know. I did not like
> what I saw, and I talked with Robby Muller who did
> the
> tests and he said: 'Look Sally, what were used to
> seeing in the cinema is young women in their
> twenties,
> preferably blonde, and we see that as normal. To see
> a
> lived-in female face, a face with experience, a face
> which cant really hide some of its sufferings and
> what its been through is going to make some people
> uncomfortable. But lets go with the flow of that,"
>
> And beautifully Sally went, as do countless of
> interesting real women, good Tangueras of a certain
> age, with the many partners who are comfortable with
> our faces and who delight dancing especially with
> us.
>
> Lucia
>
> --- Jennifer Rondeau <angelicatech@YAHOO.COM>
> escribis:
>
> > Gee, John, I'd sure like to dance in your world.
> >
> > But in mine, there are all too many instances of
> > "gee,
> > well, maybe later," or "i'm resting" -- only to
> > watch
> > said respondee march off with someone evidently
> more
> > glamorous to be seen dancing with.
> >
> > This behavior, BTW, I've noted in dancers who seem
> > quite delighted to dance with me elsewhere, where
> > perhaps the glamor quotient isn't as high. Me, I
> > now
> > decline *their* invitations. I still try to do so
> > more gracefully than they have tended to decline
> > mine.
> >
> > I'm not the only woman of a certain age I've
> > observed
> > treated in this manner, either, including dancers
> > who
> > are far more advanced and skillful than I. I
> > acknowledge that there are certainly other
> variables
> > at work here, too, but age does seem to be one of
> > them.
> >
> > Jennifer in Eugene
Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 12:38:15 +0100
From: John Ward <johnofbristol@TISCALI.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Invitations to the dance
All this is new to me - in Europe (UK and continental) it just isn't done
for a man to refuse a woman's invitation, in the same way as it isn't done
to spit on the floor. This has been known to cause embarrassment - once at
the Vanhan Kellari in Helsinki I offered to get my partner a drink and when
I was on my way to the bar another lady asked me to dance. I didn't want to
leave lady no 1 to die of thirst, but I couldn't refuse no 2's invitation.
Naturally no 1 was fully sympathetic to my plight when I eventually got back
to her with her drink. I couldn't break the rules of the establishment.
I agree with Manuel we dance for the enjoyment of it, and that we like some
tunes better than others . . . . but lighten up a bit, please! If a woman
has chosen you over all the other chaps in the room, does it really matter
if the bandoneon is a bit wheezy? As Christine Denniston says: it's only for
three minutes, it isn't for the rest of your life.
John Ward
Bristol, UK
Date: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 00:11:30 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Invitations to the dance - Is it news that Tango is danced better by seasoned Tangueras!?
Derik Rawson wrote:
> A young US American on the Paris Metro once said,
> "What is it about French women?" The answer to him
> was, "French women are just as beautiful as American
> women, but French women know what to do with
> it"....lol.
> In France the above talent of French women is called,
> the "Ugly French woman syndrome", by Frenchman. When
> a French woman has a lot of character, style and
> grace, like Sally Potter for instance, she is always
> very beautiful, no matter what she looks like.
For crying out loud, Derik, Sally Potter is an English Jew !
(no objections to the rest of that posting)
Astrid
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 11:31:29 +0100
From: John Ward <johnofbristol@TISCALI.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: Invitations to the dance
Sorry to revive this old thread, but I have to share this. Last night a lady
at our table received an invitation by means of a text to her mobile phone.
This is the first time I have seen this - and both parties were in their
70's.
John Ward
Bristol, UK
Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2005 00:52:11 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Invitations to the dance
Maybe this could be the modern answer to the cabeceo? Or an alternative for
the short sighted ones, or when it is crowded and they turn down the lights
to this annoying semi-darkness, so you can't see the one you are looking
for, and consider it hazardous to wriggle past all those stiletto-wearing
ladies doing high boleos and dancers almost brushing the tables around the
dance floor?
This could spare us the reintroduction of the table-telephone. Just send an
SMS:"Would you like to meet me near the stereo and dance with me?"
> Sorry to revive this old thread, but I have to share this. Last night a
lady
> at our table received an invitation by means of a text to her mobile
phone.
> This is the first time I have seen this - and both parties were in their
> 70's.
>
> John Ward
> Bristol, UK
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 09:38:40 -0700
From: Carlos Rojas <CRojas@HACIENDACDC.ORG>
Subject: Re: Invitations to the dance
John,
Thank you for sharing, this is great.
Carlos Rojas
-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 3:31 AM
To: TANGO-L@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [TANGO-L] Invitations to the dance
Sorry to revive this old thread, but I have to share this. Last night a lady
at our table received an invitation by means of a text to her mobile phone.
This is the first time I have seen this - and both parties were in their
70's.
John Ward
Bristol, UK
