3821  Kiss & Tango by Marina Palmer - an attempt at book review

Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 14:00:48 -0600
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Kiss & Tango by Marina Palmer - an attempt at book review

Keep in mind that the book was written by well educated advertising executive.

Implications: 1) self promotion messages are scattered throughout, 2)
the messages are oblique as should be expected from well educated
advertising executive (here is the usual technique - flog yourself
where flogging is not really necessary to induce pity while modestly
put the praise into the mouth of outsiders, tell a story how your
intervention has improved productivity, solved problem, saved time -
common job interview approaches), 3) [follows from 1 and 2] the
delivery is coy to be inoffensive, 4) the delivery is often hysteric
to be entertaining (given author background I find this element of
style particularly offensively unbelievable, then again I do not think
I am in the target audience anyway), 4) math skills are nonsensical
(very common among the run of the mill marketing people - example, if
you reduce price from $15 to $5 the price will drop by 67%, not 30%),
5) fashionable name-dropping common in a high brow salon chit-chat to
impress depth (Nietzsche, Proust, somehow she has managed to omit
Kafka, Musil and Joyce - drifting out of fashion?) - the impression is
rather shallow though since the droppings do not go too far beyond
names.

When I picked up the book my hope was that I would get some insights
into social tango scene in Buenos Aires. In this context Sex in the
City angle would not hurt either. In the retrospect sex passages were
probably the most adequate thread in this book even though they
essentially regurgitate some episodes from the TV series. Portnoy's
Complaint has more edge and therefore is more fascinating book on that
bookshelf. The insights into culture of milongas in Buenos Aires are
pretty basic - you can find more depth in the archives of Tango-L.

It's not all bad though even if it is all fluff - she does not repeat
herself much and therefore at least while you read the progression is
smooth enough to keep those pages turning. If you have never heard
about tango or have discovered it a month ago there is some useful
primer level information scattered throughout and so overall impact of
disseminating tango awareness should be positive.

The common theme of looking for permanent dance partner could have
been intended as a metaphor for a life partner. Whatever... I think
the author went for a major mismatch when she projected her obsession
with social tango into desire to become a performance dancer, which is
altogether very different kind of tango experience. Well, a lot of
people take glitter for gold - otherwise LA would be very different
place from what it is now.

Finally a bit of knowledge I could do without - it appears that her
parents are about to start to stink. I wouldn't know this unpleasant
fact but this is exactly what she writes - old people she meets often
smell bad. I assume she has childhood memories of her granny as a
reference point. I would recommend her parents to wash their clothes
more often to avoid this quickly approaching predicament. And of
course to stay away from their daughter's probing nose.


--
Oleh Kovalchuke
https://TangoSpring.com

Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 16:22:25 EDT
From: Cherie Magnus <MACFroggy@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kiss & Tango by Marina Palmer - an attempt at book review

Here's my review from Amazon:

Sorry to bring a little reality to the heavy-breathing enthusiasm, but I had
hoped this book would be a little bit about tango.

Instead it's the tale of a spoiled thirty-year-old (!) "girl" who talks her
wealthy family into supporting her whim of becoming a professional tango dancer
in Buenos Aires. Along the way to the realization two years later that it
will never happen, she seduces and sleeps with every Argentine male she can get
her hands on, even the delivery boy.

Without previous dance training (she worked in advertising in New York), she
had a fantasy of dancing on stage, and at the same time, of finding her "Other
Half of the Orange" who also is a Tango God.

Set up comfortably in a luxury apartment and spending her parents' $2,000
U.S. per month on tango classes, shoes and cafes con leche, she brings man after
man to her bed, and sometimes two at a time, and doesn't spare us the details.

The book only gets interesting at the end when the Economic Crisis hits
Argentina in 2001, but running from the turmoil, Marina quickly escapes to her
relatives' elegant country ranch far from the disquieting events in the city. And
then, giving up the dream, she returns to the States.

The writing is full of cliches, the lovers are indistinguishable, the women
invariably turn out to be "bitches."

So I'm still waiting for someone to write about Argentine Tango in Buenos
Aires. Slutty sex is everywhere.

--Cherie Magnus

Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 15:26:25 -0600
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kiss & Tango by Marina Palmer - an attempt at book review

You can see excerpts from Marina's promotional video at her Kiss and
Tango website (https://www.kissandtango.com/home.html). Not a great
performance dancer - she dances as an executive, too choppy, too
afraid (self-conscious), the lingering feminine plastic is missing
(there are no examples of her social style dancing, hence no opinion
on that).

--
Oleh Kovalchuke
https://TangoSpring.com


On 9/19/05, Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@gmail.com> wrote:

> Keep in mind that the book was written by well educated advertising executive.
>
> Implications: 1) self promotion messages are scattered throughout, 2)
> the messages are oblique as should be expected from well educated
> advertising executive (here is the usual technique - flog yourself
> where flogging is not really necessary to induce pity while modestly
> put the praise into the mouth of outsiders, tell a story how your
> intervention has improved productivity, solved problem, saved time -
> common job interview approaches), 3) [follows from 1 and 2] the
> delivery is coy to be inoffensive, 4) the delivery is often hysteric
> to be entertaining (given author background I find this element of
> style particularly offensively unbelievable, then again I do not think
> I am in the target audience anyway), 4) math skills are nonsensical
> (very common among the run of the mill marketing people - example, if
> you reduce price from $15 to $5 the price will drop by 67%, not 30%),
> 5) fashionable name-dropping common in a high brow salon chit-chat to
> impress depth (Nietzsche, Proust, somehow she has managed to omit
> Kafka, Musil and Joyce - drifting out of fashion?) - the impression is
> rather shallow though since the droppings do not go too far beyond
> names.
>
> When I picked up the book my hope was that I would get some insights
> into social tango scene in Buenos Aires. In this context Sex in the
> City angle would not hurt either. In the retrospect sex passages were
> probably the most adequate thread in this book even though they
> essentially regurgitate some episodes from the TV series. Portnoy's
> Complaint has more edge and therefore is more fascinating book on that
> bookshelf. The insights into culture of milongas in Buenos Aires are
> pretty basic - you can find more depth in the archives of Tango-L.
>
> It's not all bad though even if it is all fluff - she does not repeat
> herself much and therefore at least while you read the progression is
> smooth enough to keep those pages turning. If you have never heard
> about tango or have discovered it a month ago there is some useful
> primer level information scattered throughout and so overall impact of
> disseminating tango awareness should be positive.
>
> The common theme of looking for permanent dance partner could have
> been intended as a metaphor for a life partner. Whatever... I think
> the author went for a major mismatch when she projected her obsession
> with social tango into desire to become a performance dancer, which is
> altogether very different kind of tango experience. Well, a lot of
> people take glitter for gold - otherwise LA would be very different
> place from what it is now.
>
> Finally a bit of knowledge I could do without - it appears that her
> parents are about to start to stink. I wouldn't know this unpleasant
> fact but this is exactly what she writes - old people she meets often
> smell bad. I assume she has childhood memories of her granny as a
> reference point. I would recommend her parents to wash their clothes
> more often to avoid this quickly approaching predicament. And of
> course to stay away from their daughter's probing nose.
>
>
> --
> Oleh Kovalchuke
> https://TangoSpring.com
>

Date: Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:49:21 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Kiss & Tango by Marina Palmer - an attempt at book review

Rick Jones wrote:
I generally feel that if a woman has the nerve to ask
me to dance, then I'll dance with her regardless of
anything else. It's a bold move on her part, and I
like to encourage boldness in life.

Oleh wrote:
You can see excerpts from Marina's promotional video at her Kiss and
Tango website (https://www.kissandtango.com/home.html). Not a great
performance dancer - she dances as an executive,

I am feeling a little ill at ease again after reading tango-l this morning.
Yes, some nice postings, but stuff like this (see above) really irks me.
I feel pressed to repeat my old saying (that I gratefully have felt free to
neglect for a while recently):
- Guys, this is the 21st century ! Can you give us women a break?
Yes, I do ask men to dance too, and I do not feel like I have a lot of
"nerve", that I am being extraordinarily "bold". For God's sake, in our
disco days we used to do that all the time, remember? Or we just went off
dancing alone. Was it any different in the States? (anyway, you did say some
nice things in there Rick, and thank you for encouraging boldness) I am
careful around Argentine men with that, but otherwise, why not? Yes, tango
is a dance from decades ago, but, after all, the people dancing it are not,
right?

And I am exasperated too, Oleh, of reading your endless pokes at Marina
Palmer for having an executive job, and dancing tango. Yes, maybe you would
not touch her with a ten foot pole because of that, but then, who cares? For
entertainment, you are welcome to read my little review (in English) of that
book on www.amazon.co.jp (just put in the title or author's name into the
search books with all the Oriental squiggles around it, it works the same
way)

Astrid
(still recovering from a hangover after a girl's night, excuse me)

Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:14:16 -0600
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kiss & Tango by Marina Palmer - an attempt at book review

Ah, but you missed the point, Astrid. I have elaborated the point in
the extended version of my review which you can find in my blog. Here
it is:

"Trained but not a great performance dancer - she dances as an
executive meaning she executes as opposed to creates (that would be a
sign of true master), too choppy, too afraid (self-conscious), the
lingering feminine plastic or playfulness is missing, there are indeed
better performance dancers in BA (there are no examples of her social
style dancing, hence no opinion on that)."

To answer your misguided assumptions my former boss in Ukraine from
about 15 years ago was an outstanding executive as well as very
interesting person whom I deeply respect (she happens to be a woman).
My another boss from about 12 years ago was lousy executive with
preposterous personality (she happens to be a woman too). I have known
all kind among men too.

Cheers, Oleh Kovalchuke
https://TangoSpring.com



On 9/19/05, astrid <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp> wrote:

> Rick Jones wrote:
> I generally feel that if a woman has the nerve to ask
> me to dance, then I'll dance with her regardless of
> anything else. It's a bold move on her part, and I
> like to encourage boldness in life.
>
> Oleh wrote:
> You can see excerpts from Marina's promotional video at her Kiss and
> Tango website (https://www.kissandtango.com/home.html). Not a great
> performance dancer - she dances as an executive,
>
> I am feeling a little ill at ease again after reading tango-l this morning.
> Yes, some nice postings, but stuff like this (see above) really irks me.
> I feel pressed to repeat my old saying (that I gratefully have felt free to
> neglect for a while recently):
> - Guys, this is the 21st century ! Can you give us women a break?
> Yes, I do ask men to dance too, and I do not feel like I have a lot of
> "nerve", that I am being extraordinarily "bold". For God's sake, in our
> disco days we used to do that all the time, remember? Or we just went off
> dancing alone. Was it any different in the States? (anyway, you did say some
> nice things in there Rick, and thank you for encouraging boldness) I am
> careful around Argentine men with that, but otherwise, why not? Yes, tango
> is a dance from decades ago, but, after all, the people dancing it are not,
> right?
>
> And I am exasperated too, Oleh, of reading your endless pokes at Marina
> Palmer for having an executive job, and dancing tango. Yes, maybe you would
> not touch her with a ten foot pole because of that, but then, who cares? For
> entertainment, you are welcome to read my little review (in English) of that
> book on www.amazon.co.jp (just put in the title or author's name into the
> search books with all the Oriental squiggles around it, it works the same
> way)
>
> Astrid
> (still recovering from a hangover after a girl's night, excuse me)
>
>

Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:25:14 -0600
From: Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Kiss & Tango by Marina Palmer - an attempt at book review

You did catch correctly my dislike of executive (clerk) metality. I
see nothing wrong with that though except for personal discomfort in
office environment.

---
Oleh Kovalchuke, establishing tradition of sending two emails instead of one
https://TangoSpring.com


On 9/19/05, Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ah, but you missed the point, Astrid. I have elaborated the point in
> the extended version of my review which you can find in my blog. Here
> it is:
>
> "Trained but not a great performance dancer - she dances as an
> executive meaning she executes as opposed to creates (that would be a
> sign of true master), too choppy, too afraid (self-conscious), the
> lingering feminine plastic or playfulness is missing, there are indeed
> better performance dancers in BA (there are no examples of her social
> style dancing, hence no opinion on that)."
>
> To answer your misguided assumptions my former boss in Ukraine from
> about 15 years ago was an outstanding executive as well as very
> interesting person whom I deeply respect (she happens to be a woman).
> My another boss from about 12 years ago was lousy executive with
> preposterous personality (she happens to be a woman too). I have known
> all kind among men too.
>
> Cheers, Oleh Kovalchuke
> https://TangoSpring.com
>
>
>
> On 9/19/05, astrid <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp> wrote:
> > Rick Jones wrote:
> > I generally feel that if a woman has the nerve to ask
> > me to dance, then I'll dance with her regardless of
> > anything else. It's a bold move on her part, and I
> > like to encourage boldness in life.
> >
> > Oleh wrote:
> > You can see excerpts from Marina's promotional video at her Kiss and
> > Tango website (https://www.kissandtango.com/home.html). Not a great
> > performance dancer - she dances as an executive,
> >
> > I am feeling a little ill at ease again after reading tango-l this morning.
> > Yes, some nice postings, but stuff like this (see above) really irks me.
> > I feel pressed to repeat my old saying (that I gratefully have felt free to
> > neglect for a while recently):
> > - Guys, this is the 21st century ! Can you give us women a break?
> > Yes, I do ask men to dance too, and I do not feel like I have a lot of
> > "nerve", that I am being extraordinarily "bold". For God's sake, in our
> > disco days we used to do that all the time, remember? Or we just went off
> > dancing alone. Was it any different in the States? (anyway, you did say some
> > nice things in there Rick, and thank you for encouraging boldness) I am
> > careful around Argentine men with that, but otherwise, why not? Yes, tango
> > is a dance from decades ago, but, after all, the people dancing it are not,
> > right?
> >
> > And I am exasperated too, Oleh, of reading your endless pokes at Marina
> > Palmer for having an executive job, and dancing tango. Yes, maybe you would
> > not touch her with a ten foot pole because of that, but then, who cares? For
> > entertainment, you are welcome to read my little review (in English) of that
> > book on www.amazon.co.jp (just put in the title or author's name into the
> > search books with all the Oriental squiggles around it, it works the same
> > way)
> >
> > Astrid
> > (still recovering from a hangover after a girl's night, excuse me)
> >
> >
>