1706  Leading from where?

Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 21:34:16 +0000
From: Jay Rabe <jayrabe@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Leading from where?

Leading from where? From the center. But from the center of what???? This is
the crux of the miscommunication and apparent disagreements in this thread
IMO.

Fearlessly disputing the experience of decades of dancing, while I'll
acknowledge that the center of motion, when we are moving with our chest
projected up and out, may indeed be the sternum, and agreeing that, when, as
a follower, you're watching your leader, it's true that it's the chest and
shoulders that you can see actually moving to "lead" you, to marcar, to
indicate the intended direction, still I suggest the key to leading is
embodied in the word "intended." And as any Tai Chi or martial arts student
will tell you, the seat of Intention, of Will, perhaps even Razor Girl's
soul, is near the belly button. So Astrid, while you may never have noticed
a belly button visibly moving to lead you, certainly you have FELT, in some
well-grounded leaders, the "depth" that RG talked about as emanating from,
of beginning in that region. "Leading from the belly button" means to center
and ground yourself through that point, then to conceptualize the movement
as beginning from that point, and then let "the lead," which is the chest
and shoulder movements of the leader's body that express his intention,
begin and flow out from that single point.

J

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Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2003 16:21:42 -0600
From: Brian Dunn <Brian@DANCEOFTHEHEART.COM>
Subject: Re: Leading from where? An electrical metaphor

>>>

"...I suggest the key to leading is embodied in the word "intended." And as
any Tai Chi or martial arts student will tell you, the seat of Intention, of
Will...is near the belly button..."Leading from the belly button" means to
center and ground yourself through that point, then to conceptualize the
movement as beginning from that point, and then let "the lead," which is the
chest and shoulder movements of the leader's body that express his
intention, begin and flow out from that single point."
<<<

Beautifully put, J.

If I may add some imagery along analogous lines:

IF the leader's well-grounded (base of spine/hips/legs/1st chakra), and
... if his energy is up (2nd chakra), then
... the lead is a focus of Intention/Will (belly button/3rd chakra)
... infused with sufficient inspiration from "the grid"(5th-7th chakras, the
music, the room, etc)
... that moves to the chest to be shared (heart/4th chakra)

and, if there's a "good connection" between them

... arcs across to the follower's chest (heart/4th)
... to mix with the follower's inspiration (5th-7th)
... and if she's "willing" (belly button/3rd)
... it moves in an exciting, energizing way (2nd)
... back to ground through her feet (base of spine/hips/legs/1st)

...with electrifying effect!

Good "connections" to all,

Brian Dunn
Dance of the Heart
Boulder, Colorado USA
1(303)938-0716
https://www.danceoftheheart.com

Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 12:49:41 -0400
From: Michael B Ditkoff <tangomaniac@JUNO.COM>
Subject: Re: Leading from where?

Last night I went on a short cruise on the State of Maryland yacht around
Annapolis, MD. I remembered from another cruise, that for navigation, the
magnetic north pole is NOT where the geographic north pole is located.
Substitute "north pole" with "center" and we have a similar situation of
confusion.

We have to remember that there are ballroom dancers on this list (I'm one
of them) and that the ballroom frame of reference is different than that
of argentine tango. The navel is the GEOGRAPHIC center of the body (or
very close to it). In ballroom, the couples are joined at the pelvis, not
too far from the navel. Inexperienced argentine tango dancers who also
dance ballroom may think the center for ballroom dancing is the same
center for dancing argentine tango. (Or maybe they have ballroom teachers
who don't know argentine tango, BUT TEACH IT ANYWAY. As an aside, I wrote
about some differences between American and Argentine Tangos in the
current issue of the United States Amateur Ballroom Dance Association
magazine. The article is "It's Argentine Tango, Stupid!!")

Another source of confusion could be leaders who dance poorly by not
dancing on the balls of their feet. If they dance on their heels, their
stomachs move first and the woman feels the lead from there (near the
navel) instead of the chest.

When tango dancers talk about the center, it's understood but not said
that argentine tango is danced in a "A" frame, with the dancers making
contact with their chests so center has to be the center of the chest
because that's where the contact is. I'm talking about dancing in close
embrace.

Michael Ditkoff
Washington, DC
10 days before my next cruise--without Argentine Tango-



On Fri, 15 Aug 2003 21:34:16 +0000 Jay Rabe <jayrabe@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:

> Leading from where? From the center. But from the center of what????
> This is > the crux of the miscommunication and apparent disagreements

in this thread > IMO.

>

Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 15:54:47 -0600
From: Russell E Bauer <russell_bauer@LYCOS.COM>
Subject: Re: Leading from where? An electrical metaphor

Brian Dunn wrote:

>If I may add some imagery along analogous lines:
>
>IF the leader's well-grounded (base of spine/hips/legs/1st chakra), and
>... if his energy is up (2nd chakra), then
>... the lead is a focus of Intention/Will (belly button/3rd chakra)
>... infused with sufficient inspiration from "the grid"(5th-7th chakras, the
>music, the room, etc)
>... that moves to the chest to be shared (heart/4th chakra)
>
>and, if there's a "good connection" between them...
>
>... arcs across to the follower's chest (heart/4th)
>... to mix with the follower's inspiration (5th-7th)
>... and if she's "willing" (belly button/3rd)
>... it moves in an exciting, energizing way (2nd)
>... back to ground through her feet (base of spine/hips/legs/1st)
>
>...with electrifying effect!

Hummm. It would good for me to learn what these chakras are. Then the next time I'm in Boulder I may understand what people are saying. ;)

About Leading from the chest or near the belly button: I think it depends what you mean by leading with the chest or whatever. The muscles that are involved when leading are the core muscles, the abs, obliques and muslce around the hip joints.

If the discussion is about what is best for the leader to think where the lead is coming from, then I think thinking it comes from the core or near the belly button or from my whole front torso works better for me than thinking it comes just from the chest. One reason is that the muscles used to lead are the my core muslces - not my pectorals. Another reason is when I'm leading someone shorter than I, think that my lead comes more for the gut helps me to not bend over at the waist.

If the discussion is about what is best for the follower to think where the lead comes from it depends on the relative heights. For a follower following someone taller and here chest only comes up to the leaders belly, then I don't think it would be helpful for her to concentrate on the lead coming from his chest.

++++

In other dances like Lindy Hop, West Coast Swing or Salsa, where many times the only contact between partners is just with the hands, I still think that the leads initiate from the midsection or the core muscles. Good leads that is.

++++

Here is something that I think is related. Where is the movement initiated in Sports? Where does the power come from for a baseball hitter or the pitcher? Or someone serving in tennis or even hitting groundstrokes. Or a swimmer.

When you see a pitcher throw 95 mph (153 km/hr), where did the power to throw that hard come from? From just the arms? No, much of that power comes from the core muscles.

Of course one doesn't need that power to lead in dance. But , the leads that initiate from the core are clearer, smoother and better.

Russell Bauer
Denver, CO



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Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2003 16:28:38 -0600
From: Russell E Bauer <russell_bauer@LYCOS.COM>
Subject: Re: Leading from where? An electrical metaphor

Brian Dunn wrote:

>
>If I may add some imagery along analogous lines:
>
>IF the leader's well-grounded (base of spine/hips/legs/1st chakra), and
>... if his energy is up (2nd chakra), then
>... the lead is a focus of Intention/Will (belly button/3rd chakra)
>... infused with sufficient inspiration from "the grid"(5th-7th chakras, the
>music, the room, etc)
>... that moves to the chest to be shared (heart/4th chakra)
>
>and, if there's a "good connection" between them
>
>... arcs across to the follower's chest (heart/4th)
>... to mix with the follower's inspiration (5th-7th)
>... and if she's "willing" (belly button/3rd)
>... it moves in an exciting, energizing way (2nd)
>... back to ground through her feet (base of spine/hips/legs/1st)
>
>...with electrifying effect!
>
>Good "connections" to all,
>

Hummm. It would good for me to learn what these chakras are. Then
the next time I'm in Boulder I may understand what people are saying. ;)

About Leading from the chest or near the belly button: I think
it depends what you mean by leading with the chest or whatever.
The muscles that are involved when leading are the core muscles -
the abs, obliques and muscles around the hip joints.

If the discussion is about what is best for the leader to think
where the lead is coming from, then thinking it comes from
the core or near the belly button or from my whole front torso works
better for me than thinking it comes just from the chest. One reason
is that the muscles used to lead are the my core muslces - not my
pectorals. Another reason is when I'm leading someone shorter than
I, thinking that my lead comes more for the gut helps me to not bend over at the waist.

If the discussion is about what is best for the follower to think
where the lead comes from it depends on the relative heights. For
a follower following someone taller and her chest only comes up
to the leaders belly, then I don't think it would be helpful for
her to concentrate on the lead coming from his chest.

Bottom line tho, the muscles that are used to lead are the core muscles. And so it's better to think of the lead coming from the one's core muscles.

++++

In other dances like Lindy Hop, West Coast Swing or Salsa, where
many times the only contact between partners is just with the hands,
I still think that the leads initiate from the midsection or the
core muscles. Good leads that is.

++++

Here is something that I think is related. Where is the movement
initiated in Sports? Where does the power come from for a baseball
hitter or the pitcher? Or someone serving in tennis or even hitting groundstrokes. Or a swimmer.

When you see a pitcher throw 95 mph (153 km/hr), where did the power
to throw that hard come from? From just the arms? No, much of
that power comes from the core muscles.

Of course one doesn't need that power to lead in dance. But , the
leads that initiate from the core are clearer, smoother and better.

Russell Bauer
Denver, CO





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