4037  MIDI simulation of the bandoneon

Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 01:02:47 -0700
From: "tho x. bui" <blahx3@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Re: MIDI simulation of the bandoneon

Thanks for the great input. My brief attempt so far yielded the same
conclusion regarding GM#24. I went "huh? That's a bandoneon?" The
"harmonica" setting of GM seems to produce a little better rendition,
but of course, still fall far short.

I wonder if once the proper sampling is obtained, the use of a volume
pedal to control the attack/swell of the bandoneon can be better simulated.

Tho

Tho X. Bui
https://home.earthlink.net/~blahx3/thoxbui



CHARLES KELLY wrote:

>On most PC sound-cards (and some MIDI sound modules/keyboards) the now
>standard synthesized sound scheme "General MIDI" will contiain a sound (#24)
>called "Tango Accordion," (a term which some would say is an oxymoron.!!) In
>any case, the sound is there; but the quality of it is even less satisfying
>than the so-called "bandoneon stop" (octaves tuned pure, no musette) found on
>some accordions -- and it is EVEN FURTHER from sounding like a real bandoneon.
>Moreover, it has none of the characterisitc articulations or "bite" of the
>bandoneon, nor the characteristic delivery effects (golpes, arrastres,
>appoggiaturas, etc), nor the wonderful nasal quality found in the tenor region
>of the bandoneon left hand, nor the sound of the bellows (fueye), etc, etc.
>
>Overall, I would say the GM #24 is not usable for any serious musical
>purposes. I would think that any knowledgable listening public, particularly
>those used to hearing the sound of real (or recorded) bandoneons playing tango
>music, would find GEN MIDI #24 quite unsatisfying. It can be helpful in one
>quite limited and clinical way: in conjuction with music notation software, to
>give a VERY rough, approximate rendering for a composer or arranger to check
>his notes and notation. But even for this purpose, it requires a stretch of
>the aural imagination (another oxymoron). The composer/arranger must already
>know, a priori, what a real bandoneon sounds like, and what to write for it
>(or not.) The synthesized sound, used in this limited context, might be said
>to bear the same relationship that an architecht's rendering has, to the
>actual finished building itself. Perhaps useful for studying the blueprints,
>but not a place where one would dwell very long with any profound pleasure.
>
>I have seen, recently, notices for a scheme of "sampled" bandoneon sounds, (a
>detailed explanation of sampling technology being beyond the scope of this
>discussion). I believe these sounds have been produced in Argentina, but I
>have not heard them, so I can't comment. However, as with any sample library,
>much depends on the method used to actuate the sounds (such as the KONTACT
>software, sequencers, etc), and of course, on the person whose hands are on
>the keyboard or other controling device(s). The importance of articulation
>and phrasing can not be overstated.
>
>I heard once of a music/psychology study, in which the recorded sounds of
>different instruments playing the same note, were played in an accoustic
>laboratory for traind musicians to listen to. HOWEVER, the researchers had
>chopped off the first 1/100th of a second of each note. In the majority of
>cases the subjects, even though they were trained musicians, could not
>differentiate between a single note of, say, a trumpet, versus a violin, in
>this admittedly artificial setting. It does however, serve to point up quite
>vividly, how much musical "information" is contained in the attack (attack
>"envelope") at the outset of each note. Indeed, the very identify of the
>instrument is contained therein.
>
>Best regards to all.
>SiempreTango
>
>
>
>

Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 11:12:00 +0000
From: "John H. Walton" <jwalton@CIX.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: MIDI simulation of the bandoneon

One the major problem here is not really Midi, but that with complex
sounds you really need to apply dynamic affects (which midi supports)
during the life of every note, and that are dependant upon the pitch-range
that the note is played in, and the volume of the note. All of this
possible with midi, but requires very time-consuming composition. It is
also possible with a "live" situation, but you will need a full
implementation of the latest GM, and a set of controllers (breath, foot
etc) mapped to the specific midi properties that you wish to control.

Best Regards, John Walton