3716 National Championships for the BsAs Tango World Ch. - building a competitive system Argentine style
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 00:58:08 +0200
From: Áron ECSEDY <aron@MILONGA.HU>
Subject: National Championships for the BsAs Tango World Ch. - building a competitive system Argentine style
Dear List,
I've just received word from the Hungarian competitors in BsAs...
THEY were actually asked to _organize a national championship_ here in
Hungary under their name as a runup to next year's World Championship with a
promise that the winner will be immediately qualified to the semi-finals and
the government of BsAs will pay the trip (over 2000 USD for a couple!) to
the Championship.
This idea sounds very disturbing. I'd been competing for 7 years (ballroom)
and been actively involved with dance politics at national level. I know
what it means to build a competition system. Competition systems are almost
exclusively built by association(s) of teachers. They have only one real
purpose: motivate sales of classes and dancing. It won't work if one teacher
tries to get hold of organization rights - which in this case is quite
likely (there are two (stage) professionals with their partners in BsAs out
of three in Hungary - guess who's the third), but the interesting part is
not even that:
Who's going to judge? I'll have to judge the dancers that are actually my
market competition? Or they will judge me if I get the whim to compete? Or
shall we invite some teachers from abroad? Who? The teachers/friends of one
teaching couple or another? Or shall we invite someone we don't know? The
same judges for escenario and salón? Or shall we invite some big names,
about 5 or 7 of them for 3000 dollars each, plus hotel and travel? (that'd
exceed the entire turnover of the tango market in Hungary)
Did anyone of you got such a request, or know about one? Any details?
Abrazos,
Aron
Ecsedy Áron
***********
Aron ECSEDY
Tel: +36 (20) 329 66 99
ICQ# 46386265
https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/
* * * * *
https://www.milonga.hu/
"Follow those who seek the truth.
Run from those who claim to have found it."
"There is more than one way to cook an omlette."
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 08:18:36 +0800
From: Kace <kace@PACIFIC.NET.SG>
Subject: Re: National Championships for the BsAs Tango World Ch. - building a competitive system Argentine style
Hi Aron
I believe in the past year, based on what I have heard in
the grapevine, many Argentinian professional teachers based
in Europe, Asia and Australia were also offered similar rights
to organise regional competitions,
From the BsAs organisers' point of view, it is the fastest way
to build up a worldwide presence, not unlike how beauty pageants
with "world" in their name must actually have international entries.
I share all your concerns about the possible abuses in judging.
Ballroom dancing has struggled for years with the sins of
competitions without resolution, and the world of swing dancing
has spawned a whole class of "pro-am" (professional paired with
amateur) events which serves only to ensure every wannabe with
deep pocket gets to bring a trophy home.
The whole championship concept is a slippery slope that should
not be entered without careful consideration.
Kace
Aron ECSEDY wrote:
> Dear List,
>
> I've just received word from the Hungarian competitors in BsAs...
>
> THEY were actually asked to _organize a national championship_ here in
> Hungary under their name as a runup to next year's World Championship with a
> promise that the winner will be immediately qualified to the semi-finals and
> the government of BsAs will pay the trip (over 2000 USD for a couple!) to
> the Championship.
>
> This idea sounds very disturbing. I'd been competing for 7 years (ballroom)
> and been actively involved with dance politics at national level. I know
> what it means to build a competition system. Competition systems are almost
> exclusively built by association(s) of teachers. They have only one real
> purpose: motivate sales of classes and dancing. It won't work if one teacher
> tries to get hold of organization rights - which in this case is quite
> likely (there are two (stage) professionals with their partners in BsAs out
> of three in Hungary - guess who's the third), but the interesting part is
> not even that:
>
> Who's going to judge? I'll have to judge the dancers that are actually my
> market competition? Or they will judge me if I get the whim to compete? Or
> shall we invite some teachers from abroad? Who? The teachers/friends of one
> teaching couple or another? Or shall we invite someone we don't know? The
> same judges for escenario and salsn? Or shall we invite some big names,
> about 5 or 7 of them for 3000 dollars each, plus hotel and travel? (that'd
> exceed the entire turnover of the tango market in Hungary)
>
> Did anyone of you got such a request, or know about one? Any details?
>
> Abrazos,
> Aron
>
>
>
>
> Ecsedy Aron
> ***********
> Aron ECSEDY
>
> Tel: +36 (20) 329 66 99
> ICQ# 46386265
>
> https://www.holgyvalasz.hu/
> * * * * *
> https://www.milonga.hu/
>
> "Follow those who seek the truth.
> Run from those who claim to have found it."
>
> "There is more than one way to cook an omlette."
Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 17:48:37 -0700
From: Michael at Tango Bellingham <michaele@TANGOBELLINGHAM.COM>
Subject: Re: National Championships for the BsAs Tango World Ch. - building a competitive system Argentine style
This is insane! We've got enough trouble fighting with these clowns that
want to standardize Argentine Tango into "bronze", "silver", and "gold"
levels with "teacher certifications" and all that garbage! It's bad
enough that Dance Vision and other ballroom vendors are trying to dip
their beaks, but this?!
If the big national ballroom associations decide to get involved in
these "national championships," the organizers in Buenos Aires can kiss
control goodbye - they'll be outspent 100 to 1. Two thousand USD is
chump change to these guys - they'll drop that or more on a single costume.
And soon afterwards the "World Argentine Tango Championships" will be
televised on PBS from Miami or NYC, and the Argentines will get bupkes.
Michael
Tango Bellingham
www.tangobellingham.com
Kace wrote:
> Hi Aron
>
> I believe in the past year, based on what I have heard in
> the grapevine, many Argentinian professional teachers based
> in Europe, Asia and Australia were also offered similar rights
> to organise regional competitions,
>
> From the BsAs organisers' point of view, it is the fastest way
> to build up a worldwide presence, not unlike how beauty pageants
> with "world" in their name must actually have international entries.
>
> I share all your concerns about the possible abuses in judging.
> Ballroom dancing has struggled for years with the sins of
> competitions without resolution, and the world of swing dancing
> has spawned a whole class of "pro-am" (professional paired with
> amateur) events which serves only to ensure every wannabe with
> deep pocket gets to bring a trophy home.
>
> The whole championship concept is a slippery slope that should
> not be entered without careful consideration.
>
> Kace
>
>
> Aron ECSEDY wrote:
>
>> Dear List,
>>
>> I've just received word from the Hungarian competitors in BsAs...
>>
>> THEY were actually asked to _organize a national championship_ here in
>> Hungary under their name as a runup to next year's World Championship
>> with a
>> promise that the winner will be immediately qualified to the
>> semi-finals and
>> the government of BsAs will pay the trip (over 2000 USD for a couple!) to
>> the Championship.
>>
>> This idea sounds very disturbing. I'd been competing for 7 years
>> (ballroom)
>> and been actively involved with dance politics at national level. I know
>> what it means to build a competition system. Competition systems are
>> almost
>> exclusively built by association(s) of teachers. They have only one real
>> purpose: motivate sales of classes and dancing. It won't work if one
>> teacher
>> tries to get hold of organization rights - which in this case is quite
>> likely (there are two (stage) professionals with their partners in
>> BsAs out
>> of three in Hungary - guess who's the third), but the interesting part is
>> not even that:
>>
>> Who's going to judge? I'll have to judge the dancers that are actually my
>> market competition? Or they will judge me if I get the whim to
>> compete? Or
>> shall we invite some teachers from abroad? Who? The teachers/friends
>> of one
>> teaching couple or another? Or shall we invite someone we don't know? The
>> same judges for escenario and salsn? Or shall we invite some big names,
>> about 5 or 7 of them for 3000 dollars each, plus hotel and travel?
>> (that'd
>> exceed the entire turnover of the tango market in Hungary)
>>
>> Did anyone of you got such a request, or know about one? Any details?
>>
>> Abrazos,
>> Aron
>>
>>
>>
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 17:53:14 -0500
From: Michael Figart II <michaelfigart@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: National Championships for the BsAs Tango World Ch. - building a competitive system Argentine style
As Michael (Tango Bellingham) said, "This is insane", but to me, for
different reasons. I have no desire to see, or hear about, any so-called
competition in Argentine Tango. To me, everything that makes Argentine
Tango what it is rules out the possibility of it being the object of a
competition. All of this is my opinion, and I know that many of you will
disagree, and it will eventually all come down to a matter of semantics.
What you choose to call Argentine Tango may be different, even very
different, from what I choose to call Argentine Tango. But I feel I must
throw my two cents in, and while some of you will disagree, and maybe
vehemently, I also know that there are many who feel the same as I.
Argentine Tango is never choreographed. As soon as choreography becomes
involved, the dance becomes something else; maybe tango, but not
Argentine.
Argentine Tango is about many things, but chiefly among them are
feeling, communication, respect, and passion. These things cannot be
judged except by the couple themselves.
Argentine Tango is only for the partners involved. As soon as it becomes
an exhibition for judges, it ceases to be Argentine Tango.
As I said, only my opinion, but it will be interesting to read the
reactions of those who disagree, and their reasons why.
And a question, to anybody who may have an idea; In gymnastics, and ice
skating, and I would venture to say, in competitive ballroom dancing, I
know that there have been, over the years, very stringent criteria
developed by which the judges are supposed to abide, in evaluating
performances. Is the same true in these tango competitions? Maybe you
have an idea, Janis, since you are so close to the event and know
everybody down there?
To me, the only way to hold a good competition between dancers of
Argentine Tango, is to have an event where every leader dances with
every follower, and have each choose their personal favorite. Yes, some
would end up using criteria like fanciest steps, or highest boleos, but
I think the majority would use criteria more like the four I listed
above; feeling, communication, respect, and passion, among other similar
qualities that are important to them.
And on a very different note; my thanks and warm regards to all the fine
followers with whom I had the privilege of dancing last weekend at the
Seattle Summer Tango Magic. Every tanda was a real pleasure. And thanks
to Clay and Arturo for their flawless organization of such a great
event. I had a fantastic time!
Regards to all, and looking forward to Denver!
Michael from Houston
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 16:30:38 -0700
From: Michael at Tango Bellingham <michaele@TANGOBELLINGHAM.COM>
Subject: Re: National Championships for the BsAs Tango World Ch. - building a competitive system Argentine style
Actually, our reasons for thinking the process insane are very similar.
Competitions in *any* art form are meaningless and degrading, but my
point was that if people go down this path, Argentine tango will end up
looking like "Dancesport", and will be taken over and
standardized/commercialized (more than it already is) by the ballroom
promoters and organizations, all of whom have a *ton* more money and
power in the US and Europe than the Argentines do.
Michael
Tango Bellingham
Michael Figart II wrote:
> As Michael (Tango Bellingham) said, "This is insane", but to me, for
> different reasons. I have no desire to see, or hear about, any so-called
> competition in Argentine Tango. To me, everything that makes Argentine
> Tango what it is rules out the possibility of it being the object of a
> competition. All of this is my opinion, and I know that many of you will
> disagree, and it will eventually all come down to a matter of semantics.
> What you choose to call Argentine Tango may be different, even very
> different, from what I choose to call Argentine Tango. But I feel I must
> throw my two cents in, and while some of you will disagree, and maybe
> vehemently, I also know that there are many who feel the same as I.
>
>
