2971  New Gotan Project

Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 23:43:07 -0500
From: Keith Elshaw <keith@TOTANGO.NET>
Subject: New Gotan Project

It seems reasonable that Tango-L might have a thread about the new Tango
Project CD.

My two cents about it:

Their debut album was such a monster item (750,000 units sold according to
their website - VERY impressive) it became a trend-setter in many tango
circles. It has spawned imitators. It broke new ground and developed a new
market demand exciting to people producing new tango music. Great sounds -
great ideas.

A multitude of traditionalists never liked Gotan. A multitude of tango
dancers did (in small doses - and late in the evening). By these folks, they
were adopted as tango musicians.

Of course, in the context of the music business as a business, having a hit
in the tango world and $1.80 will get you a cup of coffee. But, they went
for something and they got it. They filled a void. They made big money by
crossing boundaries using tango as a motif. It would have been wonderful if
they had cared about us enough to at least throw us another bone.


IF there are "young-thinking" people on the dancer floor, I will, as dj,
play a cut of Revancha (the first CD) almost every milonga I work. That CD
has become a staple of the repertoire of the open-minded dj.

After exploring new ideas and creating new hybrid sounds on the first,
Gotan's producer has apparently decided that what his fans want is boring
loops, the "F" word on rap, bad quality reproductions of Troilo with
distracting, stupid sound effects on top, and - just what everybody really
needs - another rip-off of Piazzolla. And it only took him 3-plus years to
deliver this dud.

Hey, guys, what ever happened to making MUSIC?

What they've done with this new release is cause one to believe their first
success was accidental.

There is also a video included on the "bonus" (wow) CD which you don't have
to lose sleep over if you never see. It's as pretentious, vacuous and
nonsensical as the music CD.

Listening to their new work, one gets the impression the last thing they
care about is people who care about tango. Or people who enjoy the pleasure
of hearing real music.

I might - MIGHT - see if I can recover something from this mess with some
judicious editing. Their idea of using Chet Baker's trumpet reflected some
of their old pure and lovely inspiration. But - they felt it needed to go to
7 minutes and again (yawn) put voices and sound effects on it to show how
"artistic" old, bankrupt ideas can be.

The producer of this CD might prove to be a money-making genius in his
decision-making for all I know. A lot of people voted for Dubyochio, too.
But in the tango world, he has just shown an arrogance and lack of taste
that is bald in its banality.

They have thrown the baton away with this one.

They have just put out a DOUBLE CD package and didn't care enough to put ONE
good song on it for the people who gave them their start. Talk about giving
us the finger ...

Maybe in another four or eight years they will come to their senses and get
back to something meaningful.

What a waste of opportunity.

Party on, Gotan Project. Hope the high is nice for you. For us, your
self-indulgence/delusion is sad to witness.

It would be nice if you attempted to redeem yourselves with another CD right
away. If you can clear your head, you could make one as good as the first
and sell another million. Return to your original ideas: interesting music
and sound for dancing and listening.

Nothing replaces good music. Certainly not sound effects and loops and
mind-altering substances.

You might be straight as a nail - but your new work doesn't sound like it.


Dear Tango-L readers: Don't buy this Gotan CD. They'll laugh too hard at you
for being so stupid as to think you might get something of value on it just
because you liked the first one.

We aren't their market any more.

Let's make them clear their heads and get back to work to get us back.

Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 15:20:31 +0000
From: "Sergio Vandekier" <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com>
Subject: [Tango-L] New Gotan Project release
To: tango-l@mit.edu

This coming Tuesday will be released "Lunatico", the second album of the
creators of the "Electronic Tango".

Their first Album was "La Revancha del Tango" released in the year 2001,
with more than one million disks sold all over the world.

Lunatico (the word) refers to the famous race horse of Carlos Gardel. It was
recorded both in Buenos Aires and in Paris.

The Gotan trio is composed by Philippe Cohen Solal, Christoph Muller and
Eduardo Makaroff. They had contributions for this second album, from Juan
Carlos Caceres, Minino Garay, Nestor Marconi, Juanjo Mosalini, Gustavo
Beytelman and the Calexico group.

The duo Koxmox (Apolo Novax and Chili Parker) have an original rap
performance.

All the themes were composed by the trio except "Paris, Texas" by Ry Cooder.
this last theme was modified by Gotan in the form of a Baguala ( folkloric
Argentine music).

What do you think about Tango mixed with electronic music?

Have a nice day, Sergio

Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 12:03:39 -0400
From: Jeff Gaynor <jjg@jqhome.net>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New Gotan Project release
To: tango-l@mit.edu

Sergio Vandekier wrote:

>
>
> What do you think about Tango mixed with electronic music?
>

was a professional musician for several years and play organ. These
sorts of purity debates have been raging in that community for many
years. So is organ music (oldest unbroken lineage of any instrument
except voice) to be revered to the point it becomes a museum piece? The
consensus that formed there is that if it does, then it will no longer
be seen as a part of the current culture and will wilt. Now organ is
often the only live instrument most people hear on a regular basis and
that gives us a special status. Especially with the introduction of --
you got it -- heavily electronic music in most places where organs were
used it has becomes important to hop in there and hold our own. The
point is that if people see that it is part of the landscape, it is
actively being written for and is well-loved then it will remain viable.
I thing large parts of this argument carry over in to the discussion of
new tango music. Tango is also in the same boat as classical music. In
truth, classical music is *not* part of the popular landscape and is a
completely foreign import (in all the New World too). As such people
rightfully think of it as alien. We don't want to let people get
comfortable with the idea that it is something done as a performance
medium in a distant land, for it will surely stay that way.

So, onto tango proper and your question: I think it might be
unavoidable. The current style of heavy bass and synthesizers is what
most people associate with current pop music. Practically, synthesizers
are much easier to find (and learn) than a bandoneon. Now the outward
sound of the music is a matter of current taste and is apt to change in
a few years. As long as whoever writes danceable tangos that are
otherwise stylisticly accurate I personally don't have much of an issue
with it. After all, if you played what we consider to be a Golden Era
tango (say, di Sarli ca. 1950) for someone living in about 1900 they
would probably find it overdone (di Sarli used up to 3 bandoneons at one
point).

These changes *should* reflect that tango is alive & well & still a
valid, growing medium. This means that people will experiment and
sometimes that may or may not work which is the price you pay. Be
thankful they are trying and be supportive too.

My $.02,

Jeff

Date: Mon, 01 May 2006 12:57:01 -0400
From: Doug Pouliot <doug@thetangocatalogue.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New Gotan Project release
To: Jeff Gaynor <jjg@jqhome.net>, <tango-l@mit.edu>

We are selling the new Gotan CD "Lun?tico".

If anyone is interested...

Best,

Doug Pouliot
--
Operations
The Tango Catalogue
The Authority on Argentine Tango
Boston MA
USA
--
E-mail doug@thetangocatalogue.com, thetangocatalogue@yahoo.com
Website https://www.thetangocatalogue.com/
Online Catalogue https://www.thetangocatalogue.com/thetangocatalogue.pdf

888-382-6467 (US/Canada)
617-666-8518 Voice
617-666-4316 Fax
SKYPE USER ID: dougdances

on 5/1/06 12:03 PM, Jeff Gaynor at jjg@jqhome.net wrote:

> Sergio Vandekier wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> What do you think about Tango mixed with electronic music?
>>
> was a professional musician for several years and play organ. These
> sorts of purity debates have been raging in that community for many
> years. So is organ music (oldest unbroken lineage of any instrument
> except voice) to be revered to the point it becomes a museum piece? The
> consensus that formed there is that if it does, then it will no longer
> be seen as a part of the current culture and will wilt. Now organ is
> often the only live instrument most people hear on a regular basis and
> that gives us a special status. Especially with the introduction of --
> you got it -- heavily electronic music in most places where organs were
> used it has becomes important to hop in there and hold our own. The
> point is that if people see that it is part of the landscape, it is
> actively being written for and is well-loved then it will remain viable.
> I thing large parts of this argument carry over in to the discussion of
> new tango music. Tango is also in the same boat as classical music. In
> truth, classical music is *not* part of the popular landscape and is a
> completely foreign import (in all the New World too). As such people
> rightfully think of it as alien. We don't want to let people get
> comfortable with the idea that it is something done as a performance
> medium in a distant land, for it will surely stay that way.
>
> So, onto tango proper and your question: I think it might be
> unavoidable. The current style of heavy bass and synthesizers is what
> most people associate with current pop music. Practically, synthesizers
> are much easier to find (and learn) than a bandoneon. Now the outward
> sound of the music is a matter of current taste and is apt to change in
> a few years. As long as whoever writes danceable tangos that are
> otherwise stylisticly accurate I personally don't have much of an issue
> with it. After all, if you played what we consider to be a Golden Era
> tango (say, di Sarli ca. 1950) for someone living in about 1900 they
> would probably find it overdone (di Sarli used up to 3 bandoneons at one
> point).
>
> These changes *should* reflect that tango is alive & well & still a
> valid, growing medium. This means that people will experiment and
> sometimes that may or may not work which is the price you pay. Be
> thankful they are trying and be supportive too.
>
> My $.02,
>
> Jeff
>

Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 19:43:19 +0200
From: "Ralph J. Hangleiter" <ralph.hangleiter@web.de>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New Gotan Project release
To: tango-l@mit.edu
format=flowed

Hi,
Lun?tico is not the second album of Gotan Project, it is the third.
The second is the double CD "Inspiracion Espiracion".

Most of the time I miss musical content in the "electronic tango".
Take the first Gotan project CD - the shortest title is 4:11, the
longest 8:26. The latter is three times longer than a traditional
tango and does not really contain more musicalwise. For me this makes
it very tiring to dancing to this music, as it does not inspire me
sufficiently for lasting that long. I don't think the pieces would
really loose a lot when one takes out 2 minutes or so of the
repetitive parts. And that also applies to some other songs from
other electronic tango bands.

A band where I don't have that feeling that much is for example otros
aires.

Regards from Munich
Ralph


Am 01.05.2006 um 17:20 schrieb Sergio Vandekier:

> This coming Tuesday will be released "Lunatico", the second album
> of the creators of the "Electronic Tango".
>
> Their first Album was "La Revancha del Tango" released in the year
> 2001, with more than one million disks sold all over the world.
>
> Lunatico (the word) refers to the famous race horse of Carlos
> Gardel. It was recorded both in Buenos Aires and in Paris.
>
> The Gotan trio is composed by Philippe Cohen Solal, Christoph
> Muller and Eduardo Makaroff. They had contributions for this second
> album, from Juan Carlos Caceres, Minino Garay, Nestor Marconi,
> Juanjo Mosalini, Gustavo Beytelman and the Calexico group.
>
> The duo Koxmox (Apolo Novax and Chili Parker) have an original rap
> performance.
>
> All the themes were composed by the trio except "Paris, Texas" by
> Ry Cooder. this last theme was modified by Gotan in the form of a
> Baguala ( folkloric Argentine music).
>
> What do you think about Tango mixed with electronic music?
>
> Have a nice day, Sergio
>
> search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>

Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 02:53:00 +0900
From: "astrid" <astrid@ruby.plala.or.jp>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New Gotan Project release
To: "Ralph J. Hangleiter" <ralph.hangleiter@web.de>, <tango-l@mit.edu>

I would assume that after "la revancha del tango" their second CD is "Santa
Maria remixes" (2002), with "santa maria" being 8:34 and "triptico" being
10:12. There is also one album called "Inspiracion" and one called
"Inspiracion-Espiracion remix." (Best of.. compilation)
They seem to dwell on one successful production for a while, and produce
variations of it before they go on... Would that make Lunatico their fifth
CD?

pardon me for adding to the confusion
Astrid


Ralph Hangleiter wrote
Hi,
Lun疸ico is not the second album of Gotan Project, it is the third.
The second is the double CD "Inspiracion Espiracion".

Am 01.05.2006 um 17:20 schrieb Sergio Vandekier:

> This coming Tuesday will be released "Lunatico", the second album
> of the creators of the "Electronic Tango".
>

Date: Tue, 2 May 2006 13:35:04 -0500
From: "Michael Figart II" <michaelfigart@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Tango-L] New Gotan Project release
To: "Tango-L" <tango-l@mit.edu>

I like some of the electronic stuff, but mostly just to listen to. I can
occasionally enjoy dancing to it just a little, but OVERALL I find the
songs way too long, and devoid of the feeling that I like to interpret
and transmit. I need the violins, and the bandoneons, and the interplay
between them. I just don't find the same beauty in the electronic tango.

Michael from Houston

-----Original Message-----

Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 10:21 AM
To: tango-l@mit.edu
Subject: [Tango-L] New Gotan Project release

This coming Tuesday will be released "Lunatico", the second album of
the
creators of the "Electronic Tango".

Their first Album was "La Revancha del Tango" released in the year 2001,

with more than one million disks sold all over the world.

Lunatico (the word) refers to the famous race horse of Carlos Gardel. It
was
recorded both in Buenos Aires and in Paris.

The Gotan trio is composed by Philippe Cohen Solal, Christoph Muller and

Eduardo Makaroff. They had contributions for this second album, from
Juan
Carlos Caceres, Minino Garay, Nestor Marconi, Juanjo Mosalini, Gustavo
Beytelman and the Calexico group.

The duo Koxmox (Apolo Novax and Chili Parker) have an original rap
performance.

All the themes were composed by the trio except "Paris, Texas" by Ry
Cooder.
this last theme was modified by Gotan in the form of a Baguala (
folkloric
Argentine music).

What do you think about Tango mixed with electronic music?

Have a nice day, Sergio