3864  Nito & Elba

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Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 00:57:17 -0700
From: Ed Loomis <TangoBear@POBOX.COM>
Subject: Re: Nito & Elba

Hi folks,
I tried to promised myself that I would stay out of this but I just can't
stand it any longer.
Nito & Elba first came into my life at Stanford Tango Week ten years ago in
1995. I have worked with them, organized workshops for them, taken private and
group lessons from them whenever they were available since then. Besides being
possibly the two sweetest people on the planet Nito & Elba are among the most
devoted and accomplished maestros of tango who survive to us from that golden
age of tango. That they are suffering this mind boggling denigration on the
Tango-L is so absurd that it is impossible to take the perpetrator seriously.
Oleh, both Sergio & Astrid have given you more than enough evidence of your
error in this than a responsible poster should need to issue a civil retraction
yet you cling stubbornly to your slander. You can parse words and split hairs
like Bill Clinton all you want, it changes nothing about the foul and
unwarranted smear that you applied to Nito & Elba and which you attempt here to
defend. It is time, Oleh, for you to apologize to both Nito & Elba and to this
list for your ignorant rant and let it go. If you are not big enough to do that
then there is nothing you have to say that is worth reading the first time and I
will happily add you to my kill file.
To the rest of you I say good night and I apologize for the disturbance.
This just needed to be said. Ciao...................
Ed

On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 22:46:50 -0600, Oleh Kovalchuke <tangospring@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Segio, I hope you are in a good health.
>
>I have described my impressions from the dancing I saw on CITA 2005
>DVD. I have not written anything about what other people say, said or
>might say in not so distant future. This unusual approach of course
>could be the source of the aberration you have mentioned.
>
>Now if you take a deep breath, skip those paragraphs with overdrawn
>sentences as I have recommended and re-read my message you might
>notice that "he" does not think that the root of tango is ballroom
>(even though I think the convoluted way you came to this conjecture is
>fascinating). Just like "he" does not think that tango has been born
>in the forties.
>
>Cheers, Oleh, A.B.Normal
>https://TangoSpring.com
>
>
>On 10/2/05, Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> So now we have to read: "These are dancers who dance figures to
>> single beat oblivious that there is also melody and more rhythms (that's why
>> they have drums in ballroom tangos)."
>>
>> ""I step on the string bass, I lead the woman on the violin; if tango was
>> supposed to be danced on the beat, then one drum would be enough, no need
>> for a full orchestra." Nito does not dance like that hence my comment. "
>>
>> Now we have to read that Oleh "steps on the string bass and leads the woman
>> on the violin".
>>
>> Well when you step on those instruments or their strings you may ruin them.
>> I have seen people step on a rope and some women being lead to the bedroom
>> but this did not prevent me from realizing that Nito is one of the best
>> dancers that exists today. :))
>>

(snip)

>>
>> **Now Nito closed most of the shows (if my memory is right) at Cita until
>> 2004. This is a high distinction, it means that he is considered one of the
>> very best by his equals. Last year (2005) for the first time there was a
>> tendency to allow younger dancers to play a bigger role in the shows.
>> I have seen Niti and /elba dancing in many places in Argentina and abroad
>> they invariably obtain the biggest applause.
>>
>> ***Now somebody sees a show of the most pure essence of Salon Tango and
>> draws the conclusions expressed by Oleh. He thinks that "Pure traditional
>> salon tango" the root of tango is ballroom. :))
>>
>> You tell me if this is a show of ignorance or not. Please explain how
>> something like this is possible.
>> What are the mechanisms that created such an aberration. Is this result of
>> having learned to dance "Milonguero" and never having seen real Salon Tango?
>> How absurd can you be? You should understand once and forever that
>> Milonguero is the simplest form of tango other than Tango Liso.
>>
>> This list is read by many great Argentine dancers of all styles, if I am
>> wrong please come forward (send a note in Spanish if necessary and I will
>> translate it for the list).
>>
>> Best regards to all, Sergio
>>




Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 01:28:52 -0700
From: Michael at Tango Bellingham <michaele@TANGOBELLINGHAM.COM>
Subject: Re: Nito & Elba - double standard?

Ok, first off I don't have a dog in this fight (and for those of you who
have no familiarity with Southern American idioms, I'm not calling
anyone a dog so don't get your noses bent out of shape). I know *of*
Nito & Elba, but I've never seen them, and hence have no opinion of them
one way or the other.

But why is it when someone expresses an uncomplimentary opinion about
Nito & Elba we get this tremendous outpouring of outrage, and yet if
someone says something bad about Susana Miller (for example) and I or
someone else defends her, it's "hey, she's a public figure figure we can
criticize her," blah, blah.

Michael the Mesocricetus auratus
Tango Bellingham

P.S. And I'm sure Nito & Elba, Susana Miller, and anyone else you care
to name just lie awake at night worrying about what people say about
them on Tango-L. Uh-huh....



Ed Loomis wrote:

> Hi folks, I tried to promised myself that I would stay out of this
> but I just can't stand it any longer. Nito & Elba first came into my
> life at Stanford Tango Week ten years ago in 1995. I have worked with
> them, organized workshops for them, taken private and group lessons
> from them whenever they were available since then. Besides being
> possibly the two sweetest people on the planet Nito & Elba are among
> the most devoted and accomplished maestros of tango who survive to us
> from that golden age of tango. That they are suffering this mind
> boggling denigration on the Tango-L is so absurd that it is
> impossible to take the perpetrator seriously. Oleh, both Sergio &
> Astrid have given you more than enough evidence of your error in this
> than a responsible poster should need to issue a civil retraction yet
> you cling stubbornly to your slander. You can parse words and split
> hairs like Bill Clinton all you want, it changes nothing about the
> foul and unwarranted smear that you applied to Nito & Elba and which
> you attempt here to defend. It is time, Oleh, for you to apologize to
> both Nito & Elba and to this list for your ignorant rant and let it
> go. If you are not big enough to do that then there is nothing you
> have to say that is worth reading the first time and I will happily
> add you to my kill file. To the rest of you I say good night and I
> apologize for the disturbance. This just needed to be said.
> Ciao................... Ed
>
> On Sun, 2 Oct 2005 22:46:50 -0600, Oleh Kovalchuke
> <tangospring@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Segio, I hope you are in a good health.
>>
>> I have described my impressions from the dancing I saw on CITA 2005
>> DVD. I have not written anything about what other people say, said
>> or might say in not so distant future. This unusual approach of
>> course could be the source of the aberration you have mentioned.
>>
>> Now if you take a deep breath, skip those paragraphs with overdrawn
>> sentences as I have recommended and re-read my message you might
>> notice that "he" does not think that the root of tango is ballroom
>> (even though I think the convoluted way you came to this conjecture
>> is fascinating). Just like "he" does not think that tango has been
>> born in the forties.
>>
>> Cheers, Oleh, A.B.Normal https://TangoSpring.com
>>
>>
>> On 10/2/05, Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> So now we have to read: "These are dancers who dance figures
>>> to single beat oblivious that there is also melody and more
>>> rhythms (that's why they have drums in ballroom tangos)."
>>>
>>> ""I step on the string bass, I lead the woman on the violin; if
>>> tango was supposed to be danced on the beat, then one drum would
>>> be enough, no need for a full orchestra." Nito does not dance
>>> like that hence my comment. "
>>>
>>> Now we have to read that Oleh "steps on the string bass and leads
>>> the woman on the violin".
>>>
>>> Well when you step on those instruments or their strings you may
>>> ruin them. I have seen people step on a rope and some women being
>>> lead to the bedroom but this did not prevent me from realizing
>>> that Nito is one of the best dancers that exists today. :))
>>>
>
> (snip)
>
>>> **Now Nito closed most of the shows (if my memory is right) at
>>> Cita until 2004. This is a high distinction, it means that he is
>>> considered one of the very best by his equals. Last year (2005)
>>> for the first time there was a tendency to allow younger dancers
>>> to play a bigger role in the shows. I have seen Niti and /elba
>>> dancing in many places in Argentina and abroad they invariably
>>> obtain the biggest applause.
>>>
>>> ***Now somebody sees a show of the most pure essence of Salon
>>> Tango and draws the conclusions expressed by Oleh. He thinks
>>> that "Pure traditional salon tango" the root of tango is
>>> ballroom. :))
>>>
>>> You tell me if this is a show of ignorance or not. Please explain
>>> how something like this is possible. What are the mechanisms that
>>> created such an aberration. Is this result of having learned to
>>> dance "Milonguero" and never having seen real Salon Tango? How
>>> absurd can you be? You should understand once and forever that
>>> Milonguero is the simplest form of tango other than Tango Liso.
>>>
>>>
>>> This list is read by many great Argentine dancers of all styles,
>>> if I am wrong please come forward (send a note in Spanish if
>>> necessary and I will translate it for the list).
>>>
>>> Best regards to all, Sergio
>>>
>
>




Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 00:14:36 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Nito & Elba - double standard?

I know *of*

> Nito & Elba, but I've never seen them, and hence have no opinion of them
> one way or the other.
>
> But why is it when someone expresses an uncomplimentary opinion about
> Nito & Elba we get this tremendous outpouring of outrage, and yet if
> someone says something bad about Susana Miller (for example) and I or
> someone else defends her, it's "hey, she's a public figure figure we can
> criticize her," blah, blah.
>

The reason for that is that Nito and Elba are the most kind, generous people
who help their students unfold and grow, they never put anyone down, they
never discourage anyone, they never make anyone miserable. Rather, Nito is
open enough that he even says, he finds our mistakes during class
interesting and that he learns from us.
Susana Miller, on the other hand, has done a great job in splitting the
tango world, in creating people with big egos who can get on other dancers'
nerves with their dogmatism. I have read her list of advice to women, and
all I have to say is thanks, but no thanks. If she alienates people, it is
her own fault.




Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 12:04:26 -0500
From: Barbara Garvey <barbara@TANGOBAR-PRODUCTIONS.COM>
Subject: Re: Nito & Elba - double standard?

Right on, Astrid!

Al and I first met Nito and Elba in 1990 in Mar del Plata when we were
visiting Hector and Ana Villalba (of Dandy in BA). The following year
Hector brought them to San Francisco where Al and I organized workshops
for them. They had never taught a group class before, and of course
didn't speak a word of English. From then on they came to California
every year and now travel throughout the world almost continuously.

A few years ago they were invited to dance in one of Forever Tango's
performances on Broadway. Nito of course has never done a choreographed
performance in his life, so of course they improvised on Broadway. He
also has danced in our home with women who had never done tango, and who
were able to dance beautifully with him leading. The legends are many.
Nito and Elba also continue to learn; they have spent many hours at our
house over the years watching videos of other dancers, especially
Orlando Paiva (Sr!).

I am constantly amazed by the growing number of listeros who seem to
think that tango began in 1994, and that what is called milonuero style,
or one of its offshoots, is the only authentic and traditional style of
social tango. Has no one ever heard of Portalea, of Fino Ribero, of
Petroleo, of Virulazo???
Abrazos,
Barbara






astrid wrote:

>I know *of*
>
>
>>Nito & Elba, but I've never seen them, and hence have no opinion of them
>>one way or the other.
>>
>>But why is it when someone expresses an uncomplimentary opinion about
>>Nito & Elba we get this tremendous outpouring of outrage, and yet if
>>someone says something bad about Susana Miller (for example) and I or
>>someone else defends her, it's "hey, she's a public figure figure we can
>>criticize her," blah, blah.
>>
>>
>>
>The reason for that is that Nito and Elba are the most kind, generous people
>who help their students unfold and grow, they never put anyone down, they
>never discourage anyone, they never make anyone miserable. Rather, Nito is
>open enough that he even says, he finds our mistakes during class
>interesting and that he learns from us.
>Susana Miller, on the other hand, has done a great job in splitting the
>tango world, in creating people with big egos who can get on other dancers'
>nerves with their dogmatism. I have read her list of advice to women, and
>all I have to say is thanks, but no thanks. If she alienates people, it is
>her own fault.
>
>
>
>
>
>


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