3865  Tango Liso

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Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 01:49:01 -0700
From: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
Subject: Tango Liso

Sergio, did you say:

"You should understand once and forever that Milonguero is the simplest form
of tango other than Tango Liso"?

Where people dance Tango Liso? I have tried to restore it and dance it
sometimes with my best partners, but I'd like to learn more about it.

Igor Polk.




Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 13:49:03 +0000
From: Sergio Vandekier <sergiovandekier990@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Tango Liso

Igor asks: "Where people dance Tango Liso? I have tried to restore it and
dance it
sometimes with my best partners, but I'd like to learn more about it.

Dear Igor,
Tango liso ( in this case liso means "simple" and not
"smooth" like most foreigners translate that word) is a form of Salon style
without "firuletes" embellishments of any sort.

It is the form or style most of us started dancing as it is devoid of all
complications and easier to do.

You start by standing erect with some "plie" o "arrugue" (bending of the
knees) with close embrace but having some "light" (separation) between the
bodies, you walk in front of the lady with that embrace.

You then learn to stop and re-start and just walk.

Then you learn to walk in different ways: to her right (inside), to her left
(outside), then you alternate these walks.

You learn to prevent her from crossing when you walk inside. Later on you
add front and back ochos and finally a couple of simple turns (such as a
rocking turn).

As to places where this style is danced: It is done individually in any
place, there is no special club to dance this particular style. When you go
to dance every couple dances differently and some of them may do tango liso.

Where to learn: Anybody that knows some tango can teach you to dance this
form.

As time goes by, some of us keep adding steps or figures and then make our
dancing more complicated, it becomes more and more like Salon Style.

Other milongueros may stay eternally in that simple style, some may
eventually add some variation in rhythm doing some "doble tiempo" here and
there.

Now if you do a few adjustments to this last dancing form such as: a closer
embrace, and the ocho cortado then you get very close to the 'Milonguero'
style.

You can see then how these different dancing forms may have originated as
always going from the very simple to the more complex.

Tango liso can be very elegant, it allows in its simplicity high
concentration in the music and in your partner.

Perhaps Igor and I should start a "Tango Liso" Club; what do you think Igor?
(Where do you live)?.

Have a good day, Sergio





Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 11:53:51 -0400
From: Richard deSousa <mallpasso@AOL.COM>
Subject: Re: Tango Liso

Igor and list:

Several years ago Felipe Martinez and Rosa (?) gave a tango liso
workshop (4 classes) at the Metronome. If you're interested you can ask
him to resurrect the workshop or take privates from him.

El Bandito de Tango



-----Original Message-----



Sent: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 01:49:01 -0700
Subject: [TANGO-L] Tango Liso

Sergio, did you say:

"You should understand once and forever that Milonguero is the simplest
form
of tango other than Tango Liso"?

Where people dance Tango Liso? I have tried to restore it and dance it
sometimes with my best partners, but I'd like to learn more about it.

Igor Polk.




Date: Mon, 3 Oct 2005 23:30:57 -0700
From: Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM>
Subject: Tango Liso

Researching on the term "Tango Liso", I have found that it was a tango with
the simple steps, and that it was a precursor for Tango Salon as we know it
now. Also I have found that it was "skillfully detailed footwork instead of
elaborate figures".

Sergio, as many other sources on internet pointed to that the dance
consisted only of simple steps. Even cross is under question.

Does it mean that this is a dance of the very beginners? Those who only know
no more than 6 tango ways to step forward of backward and nothing else? (
;) )

Now, let us look at another thing for a moment, let see what people say
about "milonguero style" which is very popular now.
Many people point out that the Milongueros say something like this:
"I used to dance 20 figures, now I dance only 5". What does it mean?
Deterioration? Old men become weaker? Someone, unfortunately, I do not
remember the name of the gentlemen, recently, on this list said, that may be
those milongueros had to know those 20 figures in order to dance chosen 5
better?

Yes, I believe that is precisely the answer. Milongueros do not dance 5
figures. They dance a figure so perfectly well than it is different every
time. They dance 5 figures with 40 variations. Each. They dance in the way
that every step becomes a figure. Many figures. The dance goes to the
micro-level. Obviously, with sacadas, paradas, and everything else, done on
such intense internal sensitive level which becomes a hidden song written in
a language not visible to outsiders.

That is exactly what should happen with Tango Liso! Steps are simple, but
the dance complexity continues on sub-step level. To dance well Tango Liso
one must know all the Salon Figures on the highly advanced level when
figures do not matter any more, but sensitivity, connection, feel,
resistance, presence, inventiveness, musicality are the language.

So here are my experiments. I have asked skillful women which I highly
regard to be more resistant then they usually are - the dance is in open and
very slow, and high resistance helps. Then when the music played is
something like "Bacan Fulero" of Lomuto we started to dance slow. Twice as
slow. 4 times as slow. I am trying to lead individual parts of the step, and
that is possible only when her muscles are very alert. She becomes like a
musical instrument with many strings each playing its own sound and rebound.

We dance slow and every centimeter of the move is played. In Tango Liso not
figures are elaborated, but individual steps! It all starts in the
connection, then continues in the body, and finishes in the feet, and
backward - feet are interacting with their own weight, leg parts, and the
floor, and the result is passed through the body to the connection and
through it to the partner. And body parts, arms, well, a head play their own
part in the orchestra! It is a game, it is a symphony! And thanks to the
perfect connection all this is visible by internal vision and enjoyed by
your partner. You partner only. Even with eyes closed.

How does it feel? It feels great!

Igor Polk


PS. Juan Bruno on his tape shows what he calls "Tango Salon" which by all
definitions is Tango Liso. Look how many interesting steps he makes, and
that is only the introduction! And his partner does not really knew about
Tango Liso. Tango Liso is as complex as any other style of Tango.
By the way, the second part of his tape is dedicated to "Tango Orillero".
Good comparison!
Thank you, Daniel Trenner, for your invaluable work!

PS to Richard:
Felipe Martinez and me are both from San Francisco ( Richard, of course,
knows it ). I highly regard Felipe as a dancer and as a teacher - he is one
of those I love to watch on the dance floor. But I never saw him dancing
Tango Liso. It is luck! Now I can talk to him about it.

PS to Sergio:
Probably, as well as you I feel that Tango Liso is a wonderful and
underestimated style. It is done with great elegance, it just has to be like
that, it happens itself! I'd love to start a Tango Liso Club. It could be a
better, easier way to the tango highest levels. On the other hand, I believe
this style has tremendous depth for new explorations. As you pointed,
amazingly, slowing down leads to very deep "concentration on the music and
the partner".





Date: Tue, 4 Oct 2005 14:18:28 +0000
From: Lucia <curvasreales@YAHOO.COM.AR>
Subject: Re: Tango Liso

Igor's erudite and interesting comments on Tango Liso
reduce to:

TangoProficiency = TALENT (practice)

where,

TALENT is a constant, defined as "an innate
capability"

practice is a variable, defined as "Repetition of an
action as to develop or maintain one's skill or
mastery"

In English it reads: "Tango proficiency is a function
of talent amplified by practice"

Lucia :-)

I guess that we could glimpse some evolutionary trends
in this formula? The more you practice, the better you
dance, the more attractive you are to the opposite sex
best dancers, your children may inherit your talents,
you will teach dance to your children at an early age,
etc, etc...

--- Igor Polk <ipolk@VIRTUAR.COM> escribis:

> Researching on the term "Tango Liso", I have found
> that it was a tango with
> the simple steps, and that it was a precursor for
> Tango Salon as we know it
> now. Also I have found that it was "skillfully
> detailed footwork instead of
> elaborate figures".
>
> Sergio, as many other sources on internet pointed to
> that the dance
> consisted only of simple steps. Even cross is under
> question.
>
> Does it mean that this is a dance of the very
> beginners? Those who only know
> no more than 6 tango ways to step forward of
> backward and nothing else? (
> ;) )
>
> Now, let us look at another thing for a moment, let
> see what people say
> about "milonguero style" which is very popular now.
> Many people point out that the Milongueros say
> something like this:
> "I used to dance 20 figures, now I dance only 5".
> What does it mean?
> Deterioration? Old men become weaker? Someone,
> unfortunately, I do not
> remember the name of the gentlemen, recently, on
> this list said, that may be
> those milongueros had to know those 20 figures in
> order to dance chosen 5
> better?
>
> Yes, I believe that is precisely the answer.
> Milongueros do not dance 5
> figures. They dance a figure so perfectly well than
> it is different every
> time. They dance 5 figures with 40 variations. Each.
> They dance in the way
> that every step becomes a figure. Many figures. The
> dance goes to the
> micro-level. Obviously, with sacadas, paradas, and
> everything else, done on
> such intense internal sensitive level which becomes
> a hidden song written in
> a language not visible to outsiders.
>
> That is exactly what should happen with Tango Liso!
> Steps are simple, but
> the dance complexity continues on sub-step level. To
> dance well Tango Liso
> one must know all the Salon Figures on the highly
> advanced level when
> figures do not matter any more, but sensitivity,
> connection, feel,
> resistance, presence, inventiveness, musicality are
> the language.
>
> So here are my experiments. I have asked skillful
> women which I highly
> regard to be more resistant then they usually are -
> the dance is in open and
> very slow, and high resistance helps. Then when the
> music played is
> something like "Bacan Fulero" of Lomuto we started
> to dance slow. Twice as
> slow. 4 times as slow. I am trying to lead
> individual parts of the step, and
> that is possible only when her muscles are very
> alert. She becomes like a
> musical instrument with many strings each playing
> its own sound and rebound.
>
> We dance slow and every centimeter of the move is
> played. In Tango Liso not
> figures are elaborated, but individual steps! It all
> starts in the
> connection, then continues in the body, and finishes
> in the feet, and
> backward - feet are interacting with their own
> weight, leg parts, and the
> floor, and the result is passed through the body to
> the connection and
> through it to the partner. And body parts, arms,
> well, a head play their own
> part in the orchestra! It is a game, it is a
> symphony! And thanks to the
> perfect connection all this is visible by internal
> vision and enjoyed by
> your partner. You partner only. Even with eyes
> closed.
>
> How does it feel? It feels great!
>
> Igor Polk
>
>













Date: Wed, 5 Oct 2005 08:56:49 +0900
From: astrid <astrid@RUBY.PLALA.OR.JP>
Subject: Re: Tango Liso

> So here are my experiments. I have asked skillful women which I highly
> regard to be more resistant then they usually are

; ) Resistant to dancing with you when you ask them...?

- the dance is in open and

> very slow, and high resistance helps.

No, I was wrong. (chuckle)

I am trying to lead individual parts of the step, and

> that is possible only when her muscles are very alert. She becomes like a
> musical instrument with many strings each playing its own sound and

rebound.

>
> We dance slow and every centimeter of the move is played. In Tango Liso

not

> figures are elaborated, but individual steps! It all starts in the
> connection, then continues in the body, and finishes in the feet, and
> backward - feet are interacting with their own weight, leg parts, and the
> floor, and the result is passed through the body to the connection and
> through it to the partner. And body parts, arms, well, a head play their

own

> part in the orchestra! It is a game, it is a symphony!

Yes. Only this is not tango liso but only simply what happens when your
dance gets better.

Astrid



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